pics of my water injection set up!!
07-31-03, 11:12 AM
#101
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Nice write-up.
Wow, now that is a how-to!
FYI my local NAPA people (and several other auto stores) had no idea what I was talking about when I mentioned this, so I picked one up from Summit, P/N NOS-15660. Keyword search for "pressure switch".
Dunno about you, but once I had attached the hose to the barbed connectors, the connection was so tight that the hose would not rotate or come off. Made it very difficult to disassemble the system, so I ended up picking up a quick-disconnect coupler from McMaster, P/N 6534K62. Put between the solenoid and intake connection, makes it very easy to take apart to verify correct operation.
Originally posted by ZeroBanger
This was my real influence. This guy was influenced by the turbomirage site.
http://members.aol.com/raydorman
This was my real influence. This guy was influenced by the turbomirage site.
http://members.aol.com/raydorman
Originally posted by ZeroBanger
for the pressure switch goto NAPA auto parts and ask for a hobbs pressure swtich #701-157
for the pressure switch goto NAPA auto parts and ask for a hobbs pressure swtich #701-157
Dunno about you, but once I had attached the hose to the barbed connectors, the connection was so tight that the hose would not rotate or come off. Made it very difficult to disassemble the system, so I ended up picking up a quick-disconnect coupler from McMaster, P/N 6534K62. Put between the solenoid and intake connection, makes it very easy to take apart to verify correct operation.
07-31-03, 11:22 AM
#102
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Bros,
I agree with you, but I did something different. I bought A nylon 3/8 hose connector. This connector is located right at the ECU where the hose starts to climb to the firewall. This is easy to dis-connect and doesn't add more weight to the hose. Its all secure enough that its not going to come off without pulling it (you could use a nylon tie to secure it, then cut the tie if you need to do maintenance). My 3/8 glass fuel fitler should always have water in it when its working right, plus I can disconnect it easy. That leaves only the engine bay/selenoid. I thought about placing something there like you did, but I think that if you have a problem in that area, its likely the injector thats clogged and putting a disconnect will not help with troubleshooting. I will just take off my elbow if I suspect that its clogged. How long have you had water injection on your car?
BTW, I did a mis type, the pressure switch # is 701-1575 at NAPA. But thanks for the link and part # for summits, im sure not everyone has a NAPA near by. You can use any pressure switch, this happens to be the one I found.
I agree with you, but I did something different. I bought A nylon 3/8 hose connector. This connector is located right at the ECU where the hose starts to climb to the firewall. This is easy to dis-connect and doesn't add more weight to the hose. Its all secure enough that its not going to come off without pulling it (you could use a nylon tie to secure it, then cut the tie if you need to do maintenance). My 3/8 glass fuel fitler should always have water in it when its working right, plus I can disconnect it easy. That leaves only the engine bay/selenoid. I thought about placing something there like you did, but I think that if you have a problem in that area, its likely the injector thats clogged and putting a disconnect will not help with troubleshooting. I will just take off my elbow if I suspect that its clogged. How long have you had water injection on your car?
BTW, I did a mis type, the pressure switch # is 701-1575 at NAPA. But thanks for the link and part # for summits, im sure not everyone has a NAPA near by. You can use any pressure switch, this happens to be the one I found.
07-31-03, 02:46 PM
#103
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Originally posted by ZeroBanger
UPDATE:Aquamist *DOES* say they prefer the nozzel to be at the intercooler exit *UNLESS* the intercooler suffers from heatsoak, which ours does.:
13. Where do I place the water jet?
Normally immediately after the intercooler unless the intercooler suffers from heat soaking such as the type that is fitted on top of the engine (Subaru, GTI-R, Toyota Celica and etc).
UPDATE:Aquamist *DOES* say they prefer the nozzel to be at the intercooler exit *UNLESS* the intercooler suffers from heatsoak, which ours does.:
13. Where do I place the water jet?
Normally immediately after the intercooler unless the intercooler suffers from heat soaking such as the type that is fitted on top of the engine (Subaru, GTI-R, Toyota Celica and etc).
. Just theorizing...
07-31-03, 04:01 PM
#104
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Originally posted by Kento
I'm not so sure installing a nozzle before the IC is such a good idea on the FD. The intake tract length from the beginning of the IC intake to the combustion chamber on an FD is rather long compared to an overhead/horizontal IC on a WRX, GTI-R, Toyota, etc. While it would probably help with heat soak, I'd think you would also run the risk of excessive condensation within the IC and intake tract, which could possibly cause problems. However, I could be wrong. Just theorizing...
I'm not so sure installing a nozzle before the IC is such a good idea on the FD. The intake tract length from the beginning of the IC intake to the combustion chamber on an FD is rather long compared to an overhead/horizontal IC on a WRX, GTI-R, Toyota, etc. While it would probably help with heat soak, I'd think you would also run the risk of excessive condensation within the IC and intake tract, which could possibly cause problems. However, I could be wrong
. Just theorizing...
07-31-03, 04:39 PM
#105
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Originally posted by ZeroBanger
I thought about your idea and had it suggested to me by alot of forum members. It would be worth looking into as it mists the air hits the water/alcohol and then it hit the fins to the car. It would require a less clean install, I could probably rig it so its not that noticable, but I dont know how effective this would be. My guess is that the water injection by itself is going to cool the air so much better than the IC could ever dream. It seems like the I/C part is to compress the air before it gets to the WI. Definately worth looking into, but I dont know if I want to go that route.
also, the Water injection is designed to allow you to run lean without detonating. Im NOT telling you to get WI and lean out your car. If your WI fails your kinda screwed. Since the WI raises the octain of the gas and cools the chamber, running lean from the cool air should be ok (atleast that what I read). This is why everyone with WI can run 3-4 more lbs of boost with WI on the same same setup than without.
Maybe someone else can share an opinion on these 2 points?
I thought about your idea and had it suggested to me by alot of forum members. It would be worth looking into as it mists the air hits the water/alcohol and then it hit the fins to the car. It would require a less clean install, I could probably rig it so its not that noticable, but I dont know how effective this would be. My guess is that the water injection by itself is going to cool the air so much better than the IC could ever dream. It seems like the I/C part is to compress the air before it gets to the WI. Definately worth looking into, but I dont know if I want to go that route.
also, the Water injection is designed to allow you to run lean without detonating. Im NOT telling you to get WI and lean out your car. If your WI fails your kinda screwed. Since the WI raises the octain of the gas and cools the chamber, running lean from the cool air should be ok (atleast that what I read). This is why everyone with WI can run 3-4 more lbs of boost with WI on the same same setup than without.
Maybe someone else can share an opinion on these 2 points?
07-31-03, 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Kento
Whatever...nevermind.
Whatever...nevermind.
08-08-03, 10:17 AM
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I had some issues with my setup that I have finally figured out. I made some changes to my system that fixed everything. This thread is an on going process so this is the most up to date. I went back to using a relay, changed the hose in my car and simplified the system. In the process I realized the system can be done cheaper and you will get better spray pattern (More fine mist).
Here are the parts and approx cost. You can look through the thread to get the parts #'s of these if I dont have them listed here.
These are the same from my original set up.
1) hobbs pressure switch (napa) 25.00
2) water selenoid (mcmaster carr) 25.00
3) injector nozzel (mcmaster carr) 3.50
4) Green 3/8 led indicator (kragen) 1.50
5) Amber 3/8 Led Indicator (Kragen) 1.50
6) 20 AMB manual switch (Kragen) 2.00
7) water pump (norther tool) 59.00
8) Water tank... 2.00 to 10.00 (depending on how elaborate)
9) Wire, connectors, harness sheath, fuses, fuse holder 5.00
10)Relay 5.00
Whats Changed:
1) Water hose. I orignally used 3/8 Fuel line hose. I reasearched Aquamist and found they use .17 Inch Inlet Diameter hose. I decided to do the same. I got this .17 hose at home depot It costs 1.50 for 25 feet! this vs 1.20 a foot for the 3/8 hose. This water hose is from watts, its opaq poly propelene. It can handle over 100 PSI and will not kink. cost 1.50.
2)Filter. I went to ACE hardware and bought a screen filter that would screw onto a hose or a fawcet. this sits at the bottom of the hose in the water tank. Cost: 1.99.
3) Location of pump. I had to move the pump from the jack area. While it was a perfect location, since it was about 8-10 inches higher than the water tank, it could not prime itself right and only worked sometimes. I mounted the pump in the spare tire area. Keep in mind. there is still room to put the 3 gallon tank in the spare area with the pump and when the carpet is down, you cant tell.
4) The brass fittings have changed. Here is what you need.
Home depot..
A-778 Watts PB110 Male Pipe to FIB bushing 3/8 X 1/4. You need 4. cost 1.50 each.
a-85 Watts IDHOSE barb to MIP adapter 1/8 X 1/4. YOu need 5 at 1.50 each. A-778 and A-85 connect together. When you connect them, you attach to the ends of the senenoid and water pump and then attach the water line to them. The extra A-85 is going to go from teh end of the water line to the 1/8 90 degree elbow, which connects to the injector.
I added all the above up and it came to about $145.00. If you are under a very serious budget, you could eliminate the Selenoid for $25.00, the Relay for $5.00. that would also allow for two less brass fittings and you would be about $110 or so. Since the water tank and pump sit way below the injector the selenoid is more for precaution.
The intake temp drops are just amazing.
Here are the parts and approx cost. You can look through the thread to get the parts #'s of these if I dont have them listed here.
These are the same from my original set up.
1) hobbs pressure switch (napa) 25.00
2) water selenoid (mcmaster carr) 25.00
3) injector nozzel (mcmaster carr) 3.50
4) Green 3/8 led indicator (kragen) 1.50
5) Amber 3/8 Led Indicator (Kragen) 1.50
6) 20 AMB manual switch (Kragen) 2.00
7) water pump (norther tool) 59.00
8) Water tank... 2.00 to 10.00 (depending on how elaborate)
9) Wire, connectors, harness sheath, fuses, fuse holder 5.00
10)Relay 5.00
Whats Changed:
1) Water hose. I orignally used 3/8 Fuel line hose. I reasearched Aquamist and found they use .17 Inch Inlet Diameter hose. I decided to do the same. I got this .17 hose at home depot It costs 1.50 for 25 feet! this vs 1.20 a foot for the 3/8 hose. This water hose is from watts, its opaq poly propelene. It can handle over 100 PSI and will not kink. cost 1.50.
2)Filter. I went to ACE hardware and bought a screen filter that would screw onto a hose or a fawcet. this sits at the bottom of the hose in the water tank. Cost: 1.99.
3) Location of pump. I had to move the pump from the jack area. While it was a perfect location, since it was about 8-10 inches higher than the water tank, it could not prime itself right and only worked sometimes. I mounted the pump in the spare tire area. Keep in mind. there is still room to put the 3 gallon tank in the spare area with the pump and when the carpet is down, you cant tell.
4) The brass fittings have changed. Here is what you need.
Home depot..
A-778 Watts PB110 Male Pipe to FIB bushing 3/8 X 1/4. You need 4. cost 1.50 each.
a-85 Watts IDHOSE barb to MIP adapter 1/8 X 1/4. YOu need 5 at 1.50 each. A-778 and A-85 connect together. When you connect them, you attach to the ends of the senenoid and water pump and then attach the water line to them. The extra A-85 is going to go from teh end of the water line to the 1/8 90 degree elbow, which connects to the injector.
I added all the above up and it came to about $145.00. If you are under a very serious budget, you could eliminate the Selenoid for $25.00, the Relay for $5.00. that would also allow for two less brass fittings and you would be about $110 or so. Since the water tank and pump sit way below the injector the selenoid is more for precaution.
The intake temp drops are just amazing.
08-08-03, 05:11 PM
#109
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Originally posted by ptrhahn
When are you gonna start selling a kit w/ step by step directions?
When are you gonna start selling a kit w/ step by step directions?
You will find yourself going to the store for a million $3-5 parts.
My next part of this system is going to have an air temperature sensor that will be pre-set to 75F. If the temp is below that mark the Water injection will not come on. If its above that, it will check with the boost switch to see if we are at the preset WI arming PSI.
08-09-03, 12:49 AM
#111
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i know im ressurecting a old thread...but has anybody ever tried to rig up an alarm for when the water tank is running low? Kinda like the warning lights we have for fuel, oil, coolant??
-Zach
-Zach
08-09-03, 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by teamstealth
i know im ressurecting a old thread...but has anybody ever tried to rig up an alarm for when the water tank is running low? Kinda like the warning lights we have for fuel, oil, coolant??
-Zach
i know im ressurecting a old thread...but has anybody ever tried to rig up an alarm for when the water tank is running low? Kinda like the warning lights we have for fuel, oil, coolant??
-Zach
.
08-10-03, 07:59 AM
#114
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Gread write up Zero... Thanx a bunch
i may have to look around for these part list... if too difficult to find the same parts, i have no choice but to look in near by countries... Any1 live in Malaysia or in Asian countries??
i may have to look around for these part list... if too difficult to find the same parts, i have no choice but to look in near by countries... Any1 live in Malaysia or in Asian countries??
08-10-03, 02:04 PM
#115
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Originally posted by Cihuuy
Gread write up Zero... Thanx a bunch
i may have to look around for these part list... if too difficult to find the same parts, i have no choice but to look in near by countries... Any1 live in Malaysia or in Asian countries??
Gread write up Zero... Thanx a bunch
i may have to look around for these part list... if too difficult to find the same parts, i have no choice but to look in near by countries... Any1 live in Malaysia or in Asian countries??
Hey...
If you cant get the parts and you are serious about this I can make a kit for you and ship it to you (of course I dont know how much shipping cost to where you are, thats a consideration too).
Also, I ordered some more nozzles today. I have decided to do a dual stage type system. I will have a low GPH nozzle at the out endtank of my IC that sprays very low GPH...maybe 1.6 or so. This will come on at 1 psi. My other will come on at 8 PSI over 4000 RPM, it will be the 6.32. So this should be interesting ....To be continued.
08-10-03, 02:23 PM
#116
Originally posted by teamstealth
yea i was just thinking about that post to elminate a IC entirely. Of course the WI would have to be foolproof, and that was one safety that came to mind.
yea i was just thinking about that post to elminate a IC entirely. Of course the WI would have to be foolproof, and that was one safety that came to mind.
Ha Ha! I knew my comment in the other thread would generate some intrest about eliminating the IC all together.
If water injection could be made damn near bullet proof, you wouldn't have to worry about heat soak and pressure loss of an IC. You would have instant throttle responce w/less lag. Also you wouldn't waste nearly a grand on an IC that will only lower intake temps slight over ambinent.Here is a comparison of the M2 medium and M2 large SMIC from Sport Compact Car's test on their project Rx7 a few years back. All temps in F.
M2 medium M2 large
Ambient Temp: 65 , 65 (med,large)
Intake Temp: 98 , 92
Peak intake temp (0-80)mph: 105 , 99
Turbo out temp: 230 ,230
Press. loss (psi): 1.1 ,1.1
Max boost press (psi): 13 , 13
* measured during a 3rd gear WOT run from 3000 to 7000 rpm-all peak numbers were recorded a 7000rpm.
Zero with your Wi setup, your intake temps are much lower than these figures(and your blitz IC is smaller than both of these. I think IC elimination is in my near future.
Last edited by t-von; 08-10-03 at 02:33 PM.
08-10-03, 02:29 PM
#117
Originally posted by ZeroBanger
Hey...
If you cant get the parts and you are serious about this I can make a kit for you and ship it to you (of course I dont know how much shipping cost to where you are, thats a consideration too).
Also, I ordered some more nozzles today. I have decided to do a dual stage type system. I will have a low GPH nozzle at the out endtank of my IC that sprays very low GPH...maybe 1.6 or so. This will come on at 1 psi. My other will come on at 8 PSI over 4000 RPM, it will be the 6.32. So this should be interesting ....To be continued.
Hey...
If you cant get the parts and you are serious about this I can make a kit for you and ship it to you (of course I dont know how much shipping cost to where you are, thats a consideration too).
Also, I ordered some more nozzles today. I have decided to do a dual stage type system. I will have a low GPH nozzle at the out endtank of my IC that sprays very low GPH...maybe 1.6 or so. This will come on at 1 psi. My other will come on at 8 PSI over 4000 RPM, it will be the 6.32. So this should be interesting ....To be continued.
Excellent
If this dual stage setup works for you, I may send you some money (plus something extra for your time) to get all the parts for me too. Thats only if you didn't mind.
08-10-03, 02:51 PM
#118
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Originally posted by t-von
Excellent If this dual stage setup works for you, I may send you some money (plus something extra for your time) to get all the parts for me too. Thats only if you didn't mind.
Excellent
If this dual stage setup works for you, I may send you some money (plus something extra for your time) to get all the parts for me too. Thats only if you didn't mind.
I ordered all the different nozzle settings so I can find whats best for me. I'm gonna rig up a radiator sprayer with the extra nozzles, but thats in the future.
08-10-03, 02:52 PM
#119
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Yea, running without an IC in this car would be pretty awesome. I'm pretty sure my intercooler has the least lag and the least pressure drop of any IC on the market for the FD, but it also has the least amount of cooling surface area, but thats not relevant any more, is it? HEHE.
08-10-03, 03:19 PM
#120
Originally posted by ZeroBanger
Yea, running without an IC in this car would be pretty awesome. I'm pretty sure my intercooler has the least lag and the least pressure drop of any IC on the market for the FD, but it also has the least amount of cooling surface area, but thats not relevant any more, is it? HEHE.
Yea, running without an IC in this car would be pretty awesome. I'm pretty sure my intercooler has the least lag and the least pressure drop of any IC on the market for the FD, but it also has the least amount of cooling surface area, but thats not relevant any more, is it? HEHE.
HeHe nope. Ha ha Ha!!!
Hey I just thought of something else. Without an IC, we could now have verticle front mount radiators. Turbo charged rotarys at last could run much cooler. Now I'm definetly going to experiment.
Last edited by t-von; 08-10-03 at 03:24 PM.
08-10-03, 06:05 PM
#122
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Originally posted by t-von
HeHe nope. Ha ha Ha!!!
Hey I just thought of something else. Without an IC, we could now have verticle front mount radiators. Turbo charged rotarys at last could run much cooler. Now I'm definetly going to experiment.
HeHe nope. Ha ha Ha!!!
Hey I just thought of something else. Without an IC, we could now have verticle front mount radiators. Turbo charged rotarys at last could run much cooler. Now I'm definetly going to experiment.
you need to keep us informed of this. Here is my idea, keep in mind im not a mechanical engineer (although I am a software engineer).
Since you have to remove the IC you have to configure some new piping. And Idea would be to have a piece that connects the elbow to the lower IC hose. This can be made of some abs plastic like the elbow is.
I would use 2 water pumps and each pump would have 2 nozzles that get activated. each pump would also be on a different relay and have different pressure switches and 2 different selenoids. And of course the water hoses are different and each is connected to a 1.25 gallon container (fits in the spare tire well with pumps easily) This would be like a raid system (lol).
This would be very redundant. No matter what part goes bad, you will have 1 working. It will be near impossible for both systems to have serious problems at the same time.
lets look at it like this...we will call the systems pump1 and pump2.
Pump1 has a 1.3 GPH nozzle that is placed at the entrance of the manifold and so does pump2.
Pump1 has a 2.0 gph nozzle that is placed at the area where the lower IC hose is now and so will the pump2.
Whats going to happen? you run out of water on 1, you have enough cooling to keep you from detonating. If a nozzle clogs, again, no big deal. a pump dies...again....no big deal.
There is no excuse for running out of water and when you use a filter you greatly help keep your nozzles from clogging. Also, you can perform maintenance every 2-3 months to clean the nozzles.
Ok, Im done. please dont give me any more ideas.
08-10-03, 08:42 PM
#124
Ok Zero , no more ideas
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Sorry one more
Instead of using two systems, I would rig up some kind of sensor or replay that would open the waist gate if the pump losses pressure or shuts down. I would also try run that in conjunction with a level sensor in the tank. This way if the WI malfunctions, or the water level is too low, the waist gate will open eliminating boost(no boost no heat). I guess a pressure sensor in the water line could be used. If the pressure got to low, then it would trip the other relays and stuff for the waist gate.
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Sorry one more
Instead of using two systems, I would rig up some kind of sensor or replay that would open the waist gate if the pump losses pressure or shuts down. I would also try run that in conjunction with a level sensor in the tank. This way if the WI malfunctions, or the water level is too low, the waist gate will open eliminating boost(no boost no heat). I guess a pressure sensor in the water line could be used. If the pressure got to low, then it would trip the other relays and stuff for the waist gate.
