One possible fix for the 'click/click/start' problem: remove oem security relay - RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum

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One possible fix for the 'click/click/start' problem: remove oem security relay

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One possible fix for the 'click/click/start' problem: remove oem security relay

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Old 11-09-09, 11:25 AM
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Thumbs up One possible fix for the 'click/click/start' problem: remove oem security relay

Firstly I need to give credit to Brent/Dudemaaanownsanrx7 b/c I remember seeing a picture of this posted in an old thread.

Since ~2002 I've had this intermittent problem. Turn the key, get a click and nothing else. Usually have to do that two or three times and then the car will start.

Kind of frustrating, kind of embarrassing, definitely a pain in the ***. I will say the car never left me stranded but the possibility of that bugged me.

So, over the years I replaced many components usually for other reasons but always hoping this problem would be corrected:

*new starter
*new battery/starter/alternator harness
*new ignition switch

The problem still persisted. About a month ago I gave Brent's idea a try, and the car hasn't done it since

Here you can see the oem security relay (H302) that's located behind the kick panel by the dead pedal:



remove it and jumper the two connections that correlate to the thicker wires:





Takes all of ten minutes. Thanks to Tom the Bagelman/Theorie for his assistance. I didnt snap any pics when I did this a month ago so we documented the historic installation on his silver hooptie
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Old 11-09-09, 11:36 AM
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oh man my hands are so sexy!

yeah i did notice that the car starts a lot easier now. mine must have been going bad as well.

another alternative would be to replace the relay with an aftermarket one (about $10), but it's so much easier to just jump it like this.
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Old 11-09-09, 12:18 PM
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My car has done this since I bought it 3 years ago. I replaced some of the items you listed above as well with no success. I will definitely try this thanks for posting.
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Old 11-09-09, 01:18 PM
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Rich...do you suggest doing this on a car that doesn't exhibit this problem? What I'm basically wondering is do you think this is a recommended preemptive solution to a possible issue in the future?!?
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Old 11-09-09, 02:29 PM
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What exactly is happening when you jump the 2 terminals together? And are there any side effects to this jumper solution?
thanks
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Old 11-09-09, 03:03 PM
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what about the starter booster pettit made? would this mod nullify/replace that?
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Old 11-09-09, 03:04 PM
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jumpering the plug bypasses the relay altogether. i guess the only side affect is that you lose the security of having a starter lockout.

this is a much better way to address the issue than adding an extra relay with the pettit starter booster.
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Old 11-09-09, 05:31 PM
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excellent post!

I wonder if this is the same problem that some of us Automatic guys are having. Mine's doing ok now but if I get the infamous *click * *click* then i'll jump it.

GJ!
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Old 11-09-09, 06:08 PM
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This started happening to me this summer and i figured it was the starter but sounds like you got the fix. Thanks a bunch man you probly saved a bunch of people a bundle of money.
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Old 11-09-09, 06:22 PM
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That is truly amazing. The car's been around for 16 years and people are still comin up with simple solutions.
Time for me to untie the Pettit booster
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Old 11-09-09, 06:34 PM
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Does anyone know what the stats on the relay are? This drives me crazy every time I cold start the car.
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Old 11-09-09, 06:35 PM
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Not so fast, turbo .

I've had the click click start problem for some time on my car. Replaced all the usual culprits, starter, ignition switch, etc. Finally I bought a brand new Mazda relay to replace the H302 relay - that didn't do it either .

The root of the click start problem is insufficient voltage getting to the "small" terminal on the starter. The Pettit starter booster is a workaround, but it does solve the root of the problem. I'd like to get the stock system to work properly again. The next thing I want to tackle is redoing the starting/charging harness and rebuilding it.

Regardless, good stuff, and I think this can solve some of the problems out there. Is it *the* culprit? I don't believe so.

The starter circuit takes a long path, from the battery to the ignition switch, through the clutch switch, through the aforementioned starter cut relay, finally to the starter. Any one of those things can give enough of a voltage drop to cause the problem.

Dale
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Old 11-09-09, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DaleClark View Post
Regardless, good stuff, and I think this can solve some of the problems out there. Is it *the* culprit? I don't believe so.

The starter circuit takes a long path, from the battery to the ignition switch, through the clutch switch, through the aforementioned starter cut relay, finally to the starter. Any one of those things can give enough of a voltage drop to cause the problem.

Dale
As is the norm, this man speaks the truth . This problem is convoluted and can be caused by a plethora of perpetrators. If I had my original wiring harness, it may not have fixed my issue. Never know the answer to that little conundrum.

Will this work for everyone? Nope. Will it work for some people? Yup.

Can't beat easy and free

Btw, I was about to replace my clutch switch too, then used the PFC commander to check the actuation, and it worked even when I had my clicky problem.
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Old 11-09-09, 06:46 PM
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Yep, I did the same thing as you with my clutch switch. I also tested the resistance of the switch and it was damn near 0 ohms with the switch closed, which was good enough for me .

The starting/charging harness in my car is crispy from a previous owner's minor problem - looks like he had a big stereo system and the power wire grounded out and melted. Just gotta get off my can and get another harness to use for parts.

Dale
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Old 11-09-09, 06:47 PM
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i may have missed it but what exactly does this jumper over?
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Old 11-09-09, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S View Post
.....Will this work for everyone? Nope. Will it work for some people? Yup.

Can't beat easy and free
Would it be possible to re-title this thread and add links to threads dealing with the other possible fixes? Just thinking that with those links, it might make a good sticky addition.
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Old 11-09-09, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tt7hvn View Post
i may have missed it but what exactly does this jumper over?
That relay is for the stock security system's starter disable. If the stock alarm is going off, you can't start the car. That relay opens the circuit so turning the key won't crank the starter.

Using the jumper wire this feature is disabled.

Will disabling the starter cut feature be a bad thing? If someone really wants your car, they'll get it - either towing it or just push starting the thing. But, this is one method to solve the problem.

Dale
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Old 11-09-09, 10:01 PM
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My car has the click click start problem as well. I will be trying this when I get home, thanks so much!
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Old 11-09-09, 11:38 PM
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Is this the same problem as the "no-click" won't start?

Mine has no sound whatsoever and then <boom>, it starts right up.

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Old 11-09-09, 11:52 PM
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sweet! going to do it asap
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Old 11-10-09, 04:16 PM
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I have this problem only that i would have to click five or six times before the starter cranks.
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Old 11-10-09, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DaleClark View Post
Just gotta get off my can and get another harness to use for parts.

Dale
I have a "parts harness" I will be getting rid of. I just pulled it off my car. It is NOT perfect, PM me if you like and I can spell everything out. I have pics too, check out my gallery pages 6 & 7. Here's page 6, start at IMG_1192 thru 1199.

I've been plagued with the 2-3 click click start problem too, and I just replaced my starter with a NAPA reman unit (they even gave me a performance/checkout chart) and my car fires up every time on the first click and the starter runs at what sounds like higher RPM, I've never heard an FD start so quick, it has a very distinct sound So far so good... I still may have to try your trick Rich!
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Old 11-11-09, 10:19 AM
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I too have had the click-click-(click-click)-start problem. While trying to track down a 4000 RPM hesitation, I went on a grounding frenzy and added extra UIM/LIM/alternator bracket/block X3 ground straps. Although it didn't completely fix my hesitation (pretty sure its a tuning problem), the car started every time I tried it yesterday. It hasn't done that in the two years I've owned it. I believe the starter relies on the engine ground. If I ever get another starter click, the security relay will be the first thing I try,

Dave...
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Old 11-11-09, 02:58 PM
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What happens is the relay sticks, fails, or takes a few tries to make contact. It's also possible the relay itself adds enough resistance to the whole circuit to create the click click problem.

In my case the relay completely failed and I did the Bypass to start the car. But on occasion I do have the click click start issue. Basically with this mod you're just taking the relay out of the system and connecting the two wires that the relay normally switches for the ignition together. You could even add your own manual switch if you wanted and make your own manual starter interrupt.

As was already mentioned the root cause of the click click start is insufficient voltage at the starter solenoid. The petite booster addresses this issue by moving full battery voltage to the solenoid. It does add an additional component that could fail, but it should eliminate the problem. The petite booster is way overpriced and can be duplicated for about $10, or basically free if you have a spare solenoid and some wires. Unless you're just a toddler at any kind of wiring then just make the thing yourself.

Other causes of no start or click start is the clutch switch. (there is 2 and only one is part of the starting system) And very rarely the ignition switch can be the problem.

Thanks Rich for the credit! and here's that pic I posted awhile back. (not near as clear as yours though) Here's a diagram and info on the petite starter booster also.

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Old 11-12-09, 12:24 AM
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WA Joining the click click clique -- Thanks

Why doesn't Mazda have a service bulletin on this to give their mechanics a clue? They act like they have never seen nor heard of the problem.

I have had this for years, never failed to start, but nervous a few times in the pouring rain. It seems to get worse in damp weather.

Car almost never showed the symptom when in the shop, so hard for them to diagnose.

Replaced starter (and they wanted to do it again), added grounding straps, replaced ignition switch, and poked needles in a voodoo doll. It still does it. I am ready to try your fix.

I am not sure I understand the petite fix, what it does, and who sells it. (maybe I need to go back and read it again.)
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