Need help on my car....
03-10-05, 11:13 AM
#1
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Need help on my car....
My FD is at Rotorsports Racing in Kannapolis...this the the second motor to try and get to run since the first one he rebuilt broke during tuning.
I have a supra TT fuel pump, 550,1680 bosch set up with Aeromotive FPR. The car idles rock solid on a streetport (although below 15"Hg making me thinking the engine has low compression).
They say the voltage is correct to the pump...but as soon as the 1600s are supposed to come on they dont for some reason and the car leans out. The injectors, pump and fpr are brand new.
I recommended that they plug the return line to make sure the injectors are firing...think they might be looking at this now. What could cause these problems? The car has been there since December and looks like another weekend the car will not be back.....frankly, i have had enough...since this has cost me a ******* fortune...
Pump is wired to 12v directly...through a relay. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Nick
I have a supra TT fuel pump, 550,1680 bosch set up with Aeromotive FPR. The car idles rock solid on a streetport (although below 15"Hg making me thinking the engine has low compression).
They say the voltage is correct to the pump...but as soon as the 1600s are supposed to come on they dont for some reason and the car leans out. The injectors, pump and fpr are brand new.
I recommended that they plug the return line to make sure the injectors are firing...think they might be looking at this now. What could cause these problems? The car has been there since December and looks like another weekend the car will not be back.....frankly, i have had enough...since this has cost me a ******* fortune...
Pump is wired to 12v directly...through a relay. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Nick
03-10-05, 11:41 AM
#3
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Thanks for your feedback Sling, but that has been checked....filter is clean. Really pissed at these guys....working on other cars when I have paid completely for work and they just put the car off and work on it when they feel like it. Should have kept the last payment....
I am 3.5 hours away, so it is not so easy to get there and make sure work is getting done. Cant imagine fuel system being this difficult to trouble shoot.
I am 3.5 hours away, so it is not so easy to get there and make sure work is getting done. Cant imagine fuel system being this difficult to trouble shoot.
Last edited by cover8; 03-10-05 at 11:44 AM.
03-11-05, 07:39 PM
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What computer you using? If you think the secondary aren't firing, then that's your problem. The mixture will lean out if the secondary don't fire. The primary just can't deliver the needed fuel even at 100%dutu cycle.
Sounds like a tuning, wiring, or wrong type of injectors to me. You sure you have the correct injectors for the computer? Are they peak-hold type?
Sounds like a tuning, wiring, or wrong type of injectors to me. You sure you have the correct injectors for the computer? Are they peak-hold type?
03-11-05, 07:42 PM
#6
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These injectors are the Bosch 1680s from Keith...the datalogit shows that it is firing. Really, without being there it could all be bullshit....I am not there to troubleshoot. I am going to allow Rotorsports til next week or **** will hit the fan.
03-12-05, 07:50 AM
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Don't understand. In the first post you say "but as soon as the 1600s are supposed to come on they dont" and then in your last "the datalogit shows that it is firing"
Which one is it?
They either fire and the mixture holds or they don't and the mixture leans out. And unless you have a good set of apex seals, I only hope that you're not getting some good knocking to blow them....
Which one is it?
They either fire and the mixture holds or they don't and the mixture leans out. And unless you have a good set of apex seals, I only hope that you're not getting some good knocking to blow them....
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03-12-05, 08:27 AM
#8
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Have you tried using a stock harness from the fuel pump. This sounds like an electrical problem and they are really a pia to figure out. If the injectors are firing but you're car is not getting the proper fuel then the fuel pump is most likely the problem or possibly the regulator is faulty. I would think Rotor Sports would have checked fuel pressure at full throttle etc....**** I don't know but sorry to hear about the trouble and good luck.
03-12-05, 11:22 AM
#9
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Originally Posted by pincusa
Don't understand. In the first post you say "but as soon as the 1600s are supposed to come on they dont" and then in your last "the datalogit shows that it is firing"
Which one is it?
They either fire and the mixture holds or they don't and the mixture leans out. And unless you have a good set of apex seals, I only hope that you're not getting some good knocking to blow them....
Which one is it?
They either fire and the mixture holds or they don't and the mixture leans out. And unless you have a good set of apex seals, I only hope that you're not getting some good knocking to blow them....
Just because the PFC sends the signal does not being it is being executed at the injector. Yes, I asked if continuity was checked and yes it was continuous. Using a
SupraTT fuel pump which shoud be more than enough.
I am a Chemical Engineer that designs and develops manufacturing processes for a living. The fuel system on the FD and many other cars are typical in process design. The pump with analog distribution to injectors is SOP except I normally install a control valve to a pressure transmitter instead of a regulator. In other words, the fuel system should be straight forward to trouble shoot. I think the problem is that they are not spending the time to focus on troubleshooting.
As soon as the car is returned, I am sending it to have a compression check done to check the integrity of the rebuild. If it does not check out, I will be taking these folks to court.
After owning my FD for two years and going through thousands of dollars it is even more frustrating to work with people you dont trust. Many after all of this, things will work out.
Last edited by cover8; 03-12-05 at 11:24 AM.
03-12-05, 11:33 AM
#10
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Sounds like you already have your mind made up chief. I would just go pick up the car and ask for a pro-rated refund. Try not to be as hostile as you sound here. At least until you have negotiated the refund. Sounds like you have the know how to DIY-so that's the route I would take. If you have the ability to do something yourself, you will never be satisfied with someone else's work IMO.
03-12-05, 03:21 PM
#13
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Yes, resistors are in....they are the gold aluminum resistors that RP sells. I actually had the work done by them so I could have a warranty...which was stated (not in writing...yes I am a dumbass) before the work started and of course now that is recanted. This upset me because I could have done everything myself except the tuning and saved hella money.
Alot of this frustration comes with the FD itself which has been horrible financial experience and frankly has not paid off from a "fun/performance" standpoint. Not even close. FD prices keep dropping even on the nice ones....i cant imagine how little one with a broken engine is worth. I will sell this car right before summer but want to make sure I have paperwork for everything and sell a nice car.
Lastly, my bill (nearly 5k) is completely paid and I dont have anything to show for it right now....
Alot of this frustration comes with the FD itself which has been horrible financial experience and frankly has not paid off from a "fun/performance" standpoint. Not even close. FD prices keep dropping even on the nice ones....i cant imagine how little one with a broken engine is worth. I will sell this car right before summer but want to make sure I have paperwork for everything and sell a nice car.
Lastly, my bill (nearly 5k) is completely paid and I dont have anything to show for it right now....
Last edited by cover8; 03-12-05 at 03:23 PM.
03-14-05, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by writersblock
I have yet to hear of Rotorsports EVER letting a customer leave their shop unhappy.
Though you state that your engineering knowlege tells you the injection system is "SOP," any disruption in voltage to the injectors can cause problems. These cars are especially prone to problems in the wiring harness (highest underhood temperatures in a road car+plastic and rubber harness=meltdown). Cars that have had their wiring in any way modified are especially problematic as any movement in the underhood harness can cause insulation to crack, so you can get voltage through a ground or ground to a hot wire and *bang* an injector won't fire, etc.
You also state that you are planning legal action if your engine doesn't spec out. That's a pretty bold statement to put forward. Anyone can Monday morning quarterback a situation. If I were you, I wouldn't start throwing around lawsuits until you get your car back. This is just my opinion, so take it at face value.
Just as a an FYI, I am a longtime customer of Rotorsports and have spent several thousands of dollars with them. Thus far, Bryan and the rest of the Rotorsports family have always done their best to exceed my expecations. I count myself as a happy Rotorsports customer.
JEA
Though you state that your engineering knowlege tells you the injection system is "SOP," any disruption in voltage to the injectors can cause problems. These cars are especially prone to problems in the wiring harness (highest underhood temperatures in a road car+plastic and rubber harness=meltdown). Cars that have had their wiring in any way modified are especially problematic as any movement in the underhood harness can cause insulation to crack, so you can get voltage through a ground or ground to a hot wire and *bang* an injector won't fire, etc.
You also state that you are planning legal action if your engine doesn't spec out. That's a pretty bold statement to put forward. Anyone can Monday morning quarterback a situation. If I were you, I wouldn't start throwing around lawsuits until you get your car back. This is just my opinion, so take it at face value.
Just as a an FYI, I am a longtime customer of Rotorsports and have spent several thousands of dollars with them. Thus far, Bryan and the rest of the Rotorsports family have always done their best to exceed my expecations. I count myself as a happy Rotorsports customer.
JEA
I am right there with you. I have never known Rotorsports to do something like this. I have spent a ton of money with them, and they do the best quality work. Sometimes it takes a while, with only 3 people working there that I have ever seen, but I want things done right when I get something done, not sloppy and fast.
03-14-05, 06:24 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by rotorsownyou7
I am right there with you. I have never known Rotorsports to do something like this. I have spent a ton of money with them, and they do the best quality work. Sometimes it takes a while, with only 3 people working there that I have ever seen, but I want things done right when I get something done, not sloppy and fast.
Btw, the first rebuild was blow up during tuning...this is the second rebuild. Yes, I will agree when there are problems with harnesses...when the engine was removed I asked to inspect the harness for typical wear, abrasions, breaks and poor solders. But this is an inspection you do when the motor is out...not once the motor is in. The car has been there for many months...and I have been patient (until recently). Car was supposed to be finished long ago.
I not a budget car enthusiast and will gladly pay for good work. So I am not trying to get over in anyway. But to have an person call you to say..."if you knew what you were doing, the car would not be here..." No rotorsports, if I knew you weren't going to give me a warranty, I would not have sent the car to your shop...I would have done the work myself...and maybe sent the car there for tuning.
Yes, I am an engineer, that designs multi-million dollar processes...so fuels systems are not that complicated..like any other problem, requires systematic problem solving...mostly focus.
Frankly, I've had enough with these folks and the car in general that looking back, is a total waste of money.
As far as monday morning, no, anyone can make a mistake...hell, I make them everyday....but when you ask someone if they checked compression and they tell you "70psi"...then give poor phone calls....you bet, I am going to check. After all, it is my money and my piece of mind. For all I have read about other "reputable" shops (like KD rotary), I am going to check and hold proper expectations for fair payment. I plan to sell this car in a few month which means that I want to have the piece of mind that the future buyer is getting what he/she is paying for...for that I am liable.
Last edited by cover8; 03-14-05 at 06:36 PM.
03-14-05, 06:55 PM
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[QUOTE=cover8]
Btw, the first rebuild was blow up during tuning...this is the second rebuild. Yes, I will agree when there are problems with harnesses...when the engine was removed I asked to inspect the harness for typical wear, abrasions, breaks and poor solders. But this is an inspection you do when the motor is out...not once the motor is in. The car has been there for many months...and I have been patient (until recently). Car was supposed to be finished long ago.
if you knew what you were doing, the car would not be here..." No rotorsports, if I knew you weren't going to give me a warranty, I would not have sent the car to your shop...I would have done the work myself...and maybe sent the car there for tuning.
[QUOTE=cover8]
Rotorsports did not give you a warranty? They do give warranties, unless the motor is a race motor I think or if you do some of the work yourself. "If you knew what you were doing the car would not be here." Well I don't know about them saying that to you, but that doesn't sound like something they would say. Anyway it doesn't matter, if the car was supposed to be finished, sometimes problems get ran into.
Things take time. You should have known if you got a warranty or not, what kind of person buys something like that without knowing about a warranty? If you have some kind of paper from them saying you have one, then you would have been ok, but obviously you don't. Next time maybe you will find these things out. As for fixing things, good luck.
Btw, the first rebuild was blow up during tuning...this is the second rebuild. Yes, I will agree when there are problems with harnesses...when the engine was removed I asked to inspect the harness for typical wear, abrasions, breaks and poor solders. But this is an inspection you do when the motor is out...not once the motor is in. The car has been there for many months...and I have been patient (until recently). Car was supposed to be finished long ago.
if you knew what you were doing, the car would not be here..." No rotorsports, if I knew you weren't going to give me a warranty, I would not have sent the car to your shop...I would have done the work myself...and maybe sent the car there for tuning.
[QUOTE=cover8]
Rotorsports did not give you a warranty? They do give warranties, unless the motor is a race motor I think or if you do some of the work yourself. "If you knew what you were doing the car would not be here." Well I don't know about them saying that to you, but that doesn't sound like something they would say. Anyway it doesn't matter, if the car was supposed to be finished, sometimes problems get ran into.
Things take time. You should have known if you got a warranty or not, what kind of person buys something like that without knowing about a warranty? If you have some kind of paper from them saying you have one, then you would have been ok, but obviously you don't. Next time maybe you will find these things out. As for fixing things, good luck.
Last edited by rotorsownyou7; 03-14-05 at 06:58 PM.
03-14-05, 07:26 PM
#20
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Right now, I am not claiming they have lacked integrity or try to "crook" me in any way. Right now, outside of a lengthy hiatus, there are no issues. Maybe things will go well...and believe me, if that is so, I will right (and write) that too. I am not here to bombshell anyone.
Have spent a fortune and have very little to show for it right now. Believe me, this is one of many problems and unfortunately, this experience is the proverbial "straw".
"things take time..." car has been there since December...that is plenty of ******' time.
Have spent a fortune and have very little to show for it right now. Believe me, this is one of many problems and unfortunately, this experience is the proverbial "straw".
"things take time..." car has been there since December...that is plenty of ******' time.
03-14-05, 07:55 PM
#21
I'm with cover8 on this one. I don't think he has any reason to lie and 3 months is a very long time to have the car in the shop when the work was payed for and they aren't waiting on money from him to proceed. If they can't figure out the fuel delivery problem that is very sad and I'd be concerned about their ability to do anything. From experience, before you get shafted more...have your lawyer send them a letter immediately and don't call them any more, watch how fast they contact you about how they figured out the problem.
I hate fucked up shops. There are very few honest/competent people. I'll never take my car to a shop again it runs perfect since me and a friend did all of the work with new engine and single turbo setup. I don't think there's anything a shop could have done better.
I hate fucked up shops. There are very few honest/competent people. I'll never take my car to a shop again it runs perfect since me and a friend did all of the work with new engine and single turbo setup. I don't think there's anything a shop could have done better.
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