onequikson

I love the looks of the FD w/o the spoiler, it looks real sleek. I was wondering if any of you w/o a spoiler race at all. If so, does it effect your grip on the road. I personally have a fairly large spoiler and feel that there would be a considerable amount of down-force lost. Or is it just me?

SpeedKing

iTrader: (4)

Search kicks ***, noob:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/wings-downforce-questions-55387/

onequikson

thanks I was using the wrong search words. DARR

MichaelB145

It's nice to see people helping others without sporting an attitude!

smg944

iTrader: (34)

well i have owned both a touring fd w/o a wing and a r1 fd with a wing.

touring w/o wing = 150mph slightly unstable.

r1 with wing = 160mph nicely stable.

downforce stablitly will usually only come from wings/spoilers that are oem or "tested" (mazdaspeed, RE, etc.)

maxcooper

The R1 also has the front lip spoiler. There's an aerodynamics book that has numbers for FD with and without the lip+spoiler, but it doesn't evaluate the lip and rear spoiler separately. The lip+spoiler combo reduces lift in front, but there is no difference (reflected in the numbers) in the rear.

Also, without fresh bushings and alignments, the same tires, etc. it is hard to draw any solid conclusions.

-Max

BenzaLee

Thats interesting. I dont know if that is your car in your avatar, but I see that you are not running a rear spoiler What is your experience with or without one?

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

well it may have been more an influence of the r1 air dam in the front.... all that a spoiler will do is add more "weight" in the rear, lifting the front of your car.... if grip and stability at very high speeds are a concern of yours, you need to HEAVILY factor in the aereo in the front of the car as well

jimlab

The '93-'95 rear spoiler is a cake decoration. The '99+ rear spoiler is functional. This has been covered so many times that I'm not even going to bother to look up the last time I posted the numbers.

The R-model front spoiler makes the major difference in high speed stability. Buy one immediately, if not sooner.

Lil Red 7

I Like my spoiler

MichaelB145

Ari told me once, that he would gain 2-3 miles per hour in the 1/4 mile when he took off the rear spoiler.

Hellspawn

Hey Jimlab, I have read about the rear spoiler bein a cake decoration, but haven't found anything about the R-model spoiler helping downforce, despite my searches on downforce. All I have read is that it helps dissipate heat.

Could you possibly point me towards the info on this? Also, I have read the same thing about the '99 spec front aiding in heat dissipation, but I thought that the downforce it produced was not conclusively proved. I was considering a cwest front, but highspeed stability is more of a concern to me since I will occasionally be tracking my car, but I just haven't found any info concerning any bumpers aiding in high speed stability short of using canards.

On a side note, I think you in particular will appreciate the FD I am picking up this weekend I will post pics.

jimlab

0.29 vs. 0.31. Guess where the increase in the drag coefficient comes from.

maxcooper

That is my car. I added the R1 front lip based on the aero numbers (and my guess that the rear spoiler doesn't help any with the reduction in lift up front). I don't have a "I added the R1 lip and the car feels more stable" testimonial to add to this discussion, but I think that it should help. I do believe that some of the big, tall rear wings help keep the rear planted, but I haven't added one to my car.

-Max

Sickass7

argh double post

Sickass7

I'd rather have a 99 spec or stock wing and lose a little high speed stability than have a nasty *** looking double decker standing two and a half feet off the *** of my fd. lol just my $.02

Sickass7

for some reason I don't really care for wingless fd's. not bashing anyone that has em, an FD just looks naked without one lol.

DMRH

The 99 rear spoiler is a much more modern look. Although the 92 rear spoiler was a modern look 13 years ago.............

Any 92+ RX-7 looks naked without a rear spoiler, they just dont seem right without one

blueskaterboy

with nicely flared rear fenders, an FD looks best wingless. i used to want the 99 wing and at certain angles the car did look naked but i like it wingless. yeah i like em shaved. i was thinking perhaps i could make panels under the body and have a fan or two sucking air...?

i really dont like wings i dunno why. RICERS!

S-MAN

How much would a diffuser help at high speeds without a spoiler. I have to make the choice soon since i just put the carbon fiber hatch on.

WONG FRIED RICE

i like the pre 99 spoilers :P

jimlab

I don't know anyone on this forum with a wind tunnel handy, so it's all a gamble when you start playing with the aerodynamics of the car.

I've had my FD with no rear spoiler and an R1 front spoiler up to 180 mph, as have others. FDs with the OEM R-model ('93-'95) rear spoiler have done this also, although it'll take a little more power to get there because of the added drag. With a '99 nose and front spoiler and '99 rear spoiler, you're probably safe too. Well, as safe as anyone can really be at 180 mph, anyway.

That said, any combination not available as an OEM package or specifically tested in a wind tunnel is suspect or worse in my opinion. Mixing and matching aero components from various vendors and driving at high speeds when you don't know how they affect the car is not advisable.

If you only autocross, the speeds aren't high enough to worry. If you're just building a show car, who cares. But if you drive at 100+ mph regularly, I'd think twice about adding a huge rear wing, rear diffuser, or aftermarket front bumper unless I knew exactly how they would affect the car at high speed.

John Magnuson

Amen.

I've been tracking my car for about two years now with the R1 model front lip and no rear spoiler with no adverse affects.

macdaddy

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/aero-data-fd-311143/

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I've got the '99 (plateless replica) nose and lip, with no rear spoiler, so i'm probably going to die.

With regard to the danger of upsetting the ballance of the car with such changes, the same could also be true of virtually any lowered FD. Most spring sets (and certainly the way I have my car set w/ coilovers) changes the attitude of the car (usually lowering the rear, since its sort of jacked-up when stock)... ride height and rake are pretty crucial.

That said, track use is actually a great way to test such things, provided you build up to speed gradually.