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Since I have gas smells (and high AFR) under heavy loads, I decided to check my secondary fuel injectors. (Everything stock down there)
First surprise, I found out that the insulators and the ring above the diffusers (circled in red on the schema below) were missing... I found nothing here ! Unless they fall somewhere and I didn't notice, but I don't think so... So, I hope this only can explain why I had a gas leak there. Do you agree ?
Looks like I'm not the only one with those missing Insulators ? ( " Remove the old insulators (if any exist) from the injector holes in the engine " According to this very useful post : https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-arch...3/#post2234850 : )
Also, I was wondering how to remove the diffusers from the block. I tried with pliers, and other handmade tools but they don't want to come out. I've read it's better rotating them so they can come, but I don't have the right tools I guess.
I know they're very fragile and I really don't want to break them inside the LIM... I will replace them before they're too old and break someday while driving the car... or maybe it's safer to let them in place since they look good.
If they look good I would leave them. If they don't willingly come out it is not work the risk of having to take apart the LIM to chase pieces. It would suck if any bits found their way into the engine as well.
You'll have a vacuum leak without the rubber grommet (13-257), I don't think the rail seals against the LIM without it. 13-253 is just an O-ring on the diffuser, so they are technically one piece. The secondary diffuser should be fairly easy to remove with a plier as it is only seal to the LIM via that O-ring, the primary one is a different story, that one is better be done with the LIM off, so you can push the diffuser up from underneath.
When I upgraded injectors i went in there with a small pick and played with them until they came up. Mine come loose very easy but be very careful cause like mentioned above you don't want them to shatter and have them go into your engine.
Even pushing them up from below is a pain. I made the mistake of trying to remove one in your exact situation and ended up breaking the first one but luckily I was able to retrieve the pieces. I tried to do the second one when I rebuilt the motor and it still shattered from trying to push up from the bottom. The other hard pill to swallow is that these are $40-70 a piece.
Agreed, if they aren't physically broken just leave them be. The rubber grommet at the top that seals the injectors to the block are easy to replace without removing the whole diffuser.
If those are bad/missing you will have a vacuum leak there, typically have a high idle and weird running.
Hey thank you all for the help.
I figured out that the insulators (the rubber grommets) were finally there in place, I just didn't noticed them before.
So, I wanted to replace only those grommets and leave the diffusers in place... But, when I pulled on one grommet, there's a little piece of the diffuser that broke like porcelain... And falled down there
So, now I guess I'm fucked...
It's not a big piece, something like 3mm by 1mm... (0,1inchx0,03) and I don't know what to do now... Many options have come in mind but I don't know what's best :
-remove the LIM and, with a lot of luck, the small piece will be there, laying in the bottom of the LIM ? But maybe it's fallen into the engine...
-use a endoscopic camera to check where is the little piece, along with a vaccum cleaner+small hose ?
-start the engine without ignition and pray that the little piece get out of the engine/turbo without damaging anything.... looks veryyy risky to me...
I would try using a Shop-vac to suck the broken piece through the injector holes and/or LIM ports. Make sure you empty/clean the vacuum first so you can inspect the canister after you're done to ensure you sucked it up.
Also, I was able to remove the diffusers pretty easily by creating a hook type tool from a piece of solid copper romex wire (about a foot long) and bent a U shape on one of the ends and used it to hook the lip of the diffuser and gently pry up.
Yeah, you can use a shop vac, many times that does the trick. You can put a fine nylon stocking over the end of the shop vac so when it does get sucked up you can see that you got it for sure.
One of those things where you wish you could pick up the engine and turn it upside-down to get the piece out .
Hope you don't have to pull the LIM, that's a pain to do! But if you have to do it you have to do it.
thank you guys !
I must find/borrow a real good vaccum cleaner, and I'll let you know what I can retrieve from there !
Maybe it can be good to remove the primary injector and block the secondary plug, so the air flow will be better in order to suck the pieces up to the top of the LIM.
Originally Posted by DaleClark
One of those things where you wish you could pick up the engine and turn it upside-down to get the piece out .
ahahhh, I really thought about this but... it will be for the very last chance
I've actually done just that with an engine on an engine stand. Dropped a nut or something in the LIM and just rotated it upside-down to get the motor out. Working on an engine on a stand is SO nice.
I just posted about this same issue. I had a very small piece of plastic split off the diffuser and I guess made it into the engine. Let me know if you successfully remove yours and how you did it...
Updates :
I've been able to retrieve the not-so-tiny piece fallen from the diffuser.
I think it may remain another micro-tiny piece still down there that I didn't succeed to retrieve, but this should be ok.
I used a vac-shop, along with a thin hose to get deep inside the LIM (and most probably inside the housing) and to vaccuum for several minutes. And, thanks Dale, I putted a nylon stocking to check what I got.
Thanks or posting here, derSchwamm, and happy that you've been able to manage this !
12-05-19, 10:43 AM
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