hehe, just trying to get some results man. . . evidently asking nicely doesnt get anything these days.

trust me guys. . . i would like to do this mod, but not having proof is a little on the gambling side.

paul

 

Seems a bit premature to be calling shenanigans on a product that KDR isn't advertizing, recommending, pushing or asking you to believe in. It doesn't sound like they even think it's all packed up like a "product" yet seeing as it's only available via word of mouth in an ad-hoc fashion.

I think you're the one that wants to believe. And are impatient. Things take time.

 

Blame this on whoever it was that hinted to this thing in the first place.

 

Hey guys,
I don't have dyno graphs but I too have the mod installed. car is 90 TII.
fuel: 720 secondaries, RP fuel pump/rewired, fcd, SAFC
engine: stock, 80,000miles
ecu: stock
intercooler: STOCK
exhaust: bonex dp, rb presilencer, apexi N1 duals
intake: TID, apexi intake
turbo: BNR stage 1 hybrid
boost: profec B

I dyno'd back in July pre-mod 260rwhp on a 90 degree day, AF's at 11.0, I have that graph if you want it.
I got the mod installed, took a little bit of fuel out with AFC and Im running 89 octance instead of 94 like I was before the mod. Didn't lose a drop of power and Im running 89 octane. NO DETONATION. No I don't have a new graph for you but if I can run like I am on the stock intercooler with 89 octane then that was a well spent $500. We are all skeptics, but in my case driving is believing. The point of the mod is to not run 20lbs of boost with 14 AFR's, its to prevent detonation and allow you run lower octane fuels. Go ahead, call me a liar. I'll just laugh at you as I'm filling up with 89
Thanks Skip.
-Seth

 

Yea! That STILL didn't say what it is or what it does. Many are going to flame the crap outta this post.

 

So what, their loss.

 

how come coke-cola didnt give out their "secret recipe" way back in the day and have kept it secret for oh how many yrs now? I am not saying that kdr is being secretive or not and frankyl i really dont give two ***** either.... i am just saying to use your damn brain man.

this is fun.

 

Man, i've been watching all this hoopla for a while now.
You're all bitching at each other on various threads, and claiming BS, and in some cases even tarnishing someone's name.
If you don't want to believe it works, fine. Shut up about it already. Go on with your life.
It seems that people want info on what it is, and that's fine. but, accept the fact that until a patent is attained, you probably won't be able to get the exact info you want. Too bad. They probably don't want info to get out for the mere fact that they don't want anyone copying it.
It's understandable to be skeptic, i'm skeptic as well, but just let people make their own choices without being chastised. The details will come out eventually. Everyone will know of it's BS or not.
We all just need to relax. Keep in mind i'm not singling anyone out here..

 

There is not going to be an patent. You cant really patent a device like that. Otherwise there would be only 1 manufacture of intercoolers, airboxes, ecu's, etc.

 

That makes sense.

 

I think they are following a wise course by keeping the technique under wraps, whether they are doing so because they are pursuing a patent or because they are just in the testing phase. They'll make a bundle if this works.

BTW, without knowing the mechanism of action and the actual structure of the device, none of you can claim that a patent is unobtainable for KDR. You can patent just about anything with a hint of novelty if you draft the claims correctly...whether that patent provides you with any real protection is another matter entirely.

 

Actually, this is exactly what patents are for. Without patents, any innovative but easily reproducible device would get stripped naked by copycatters. A patent provides the holder a time period to make a profit to pay for their R&D. The reason intercoolers and airboxes and stuff don't appear protected by a general patent is because those patents probably expired years ago, or the original inventors just didn't patent it. Stuff like Coca-cola and Gore-Tex had patents, but because are still unique because they keep their processes secret and they can't be easily reverse engineered.

Dave

 

But everyone knew what the product was. What it looked like, what it tasted like, etc.

Heh...I'm not being agressive on this...it is fun. Just making the counterpoint and playing devil's advocate.

 

Thats not entirely true, when you say the sets "leak" its not from improper build, its from not enough oil restriction. He has a restriction pill out that takes about 97% of the smoke out, it also doesnt smoke all the time, for some reason it seems to be at idle right after a hard wot pull (at least for the ones I've seen), kinda like WOT then pull to a stop sign and a small puff of smoke comes out. The majority of people when first installing them were using the stock oil restrictors instead of the modded ones thats where most of the huge amounts of smoke talk was coming from.

Its also no where near 9 out of 10 sets

In addition, the sets were dynoed and street/track proven before being sold. I've never had a smoking problem with my set and there are others that havent either. Personally I think it has to do with something being set up different one certain people cars like the upgraded oil pressure stuff you can get with a engien rebuild that jacks the pressure up, or maybe people not having thier crank case vent hooked up right.

Just because some people cant make the power doesnt mean anything. I'm sure if you find out who makes the most power with a T78 you'll also find out that 99% of all the other T78 owners make significantly less power. Doestn mean there is anything wrong with that other 99% of peoples turbos. Just means thier set up isnt optimal.

Also, the light smoke that some people experienced doesnt affect the performance of the turbos.

STEPHEN

 

Whatever KDR has got, not releasing any information about is has been a terrific move. Lots of free publicity (on both forums).

Remember the "it". Haven't heard much about this since we found out "it" was a scooter.

It's also interesting to me that nobody would have a beef if they were keeping their tuning methods a secret (i.e. fuel maps, porting, etc.). Is this really all that different?

 

Unless this comes out soon... its LS1 time.

 

I don't think that is logical. They have already sold the device, that in itself would jeopardize ensuring that they get their patent before someone else comes out with a "me too". Also, since they have sold and are selling, the device is out of the testing phase (or at least, it better be).

It is possible that the device (and/or method) cannot be patented.

It seems to make sense that a patent is unobtainable considering the way KDR has handled this whole situation, too. They have had plenty of time to be far enough along in the patent process to provide proper protection in the event they disclosed specifics on what they are doing. Maybe they are just farting around??? But selling the device could be putting a lot in jeopardy.

If I had a similar product that I could not patent, I would keep it secret too. I would also keep it secret if it really didn't do much of anything or was simple enough than any shade tree mechanic could make their own.

Either way, kudos to KDR for ******* with everyone.

 

I think you're absolutely right. I knew something wasn't sitting right with me about the post you replied to...........something I was forgetting. They do expire. *Ding - light bulb goes on *
It makes total sense for KD to keep it as much under wraps as they can for now.

 

You are not keeping anything under wraps by selling it. I doubt that it could not be easily reverse engineered. Chemical compositions and mixtures are one thing to keep secret and make difficult to reverse engineer, physical components are not difficult (especially when made by a small company without complex manufacturing or fabricating resources).

I doubt there is any concern over potential patent expiration.

It makes sense that they are keeping it under wraps, so not every Tom, Dick and Harry will fab one. It makes sense that they are not patenting because it either cannot be or they are too lazy or cheap to complete the patent process.

 

I think I maybe didn't make myself clear. Sorry.
I don't believe they are concerned with patent expiration, because the device isn't even patented yet. I was talking about his point on the intercoolers, and that maybe those patents had expired.
You're right about the "selling it" point, but they're not being real aggressive promoting it, so they actually are doing both. They are selling it, as well as keeping it under wraps somewhat. If they were promoting it hard, everyone wouldn't be in these posts speculating the way they are.
You're right on again with the "Tom & Dick" statement as well. That's pretty much what they seem to be doing.
The lazy and cheap statements don't come anywhere close to being applicable to Dave. The man is dedicated to these cars and their forward progression.

 

If they are going to pursue a patent it has to be taken care of within a year of selling the first unit, otherwise it's fair game. If they sell it overseas it's completely different, they dont' play by the same rules we do.
Might be different if they've made all of the buyers sign a "non disclosure agreement" however.

Frank

 

Ok here me out...

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PATENT IT.


Im not guessing, I know for a fact. Now change the damn subject. Im sick of hearing about the damn patent.

 

LOL!
I believe you, and agree with you. This stuff is all out of hand. The only reason I even posted again is because someone addressed me.
All this stuff will work it's way out eventually.

 

Amen.

 

So where did you divine this information from? Just curious...