So do you know why your plugs fouled out? Did they have a lot of miles on them, or are you not tuned correctly yet? Is fouling plugs a major problem with a high horsepower rotary?

 

While at this point I still want to beleive the HP numbers you posted, I'm having a hard time beleiving that neither you nor anybody at BNR can't seem to get any of your plots posted. Give a copy of the plots to whom ever does their web page.

Come on! At last count there have been 300 replies and damn near 10000 veiws! Talk about free advertizing!

I'm afraid I have to fly the flag on lack of plot/s.

 

You have a damn good point bill. I know you want a backup run but comeon. we realize they are not "official" but damn we have been waiting for almost 3 weeks! Take the damn sheet to kinkos. They will take care of you there. Hell you can do it at walgreens if you want. Just please show us something. Just saying you made 460 hp isnt going to sell anybody.

latr

bobby

 

Hey, I called that 12 pages ago!

 

Maybe I missed the post discussing this somewhere, but does anyone have any ideas on the longevity of these secret weapon turbos? I mean I could hit 17-18 psi or more on my stock turbos if I wanted to but who knows how long they would last.

Have these been extensively endurance tested at running the 18+psi????

Not to be a doubter but this seems too good to be true..ot 420/465 hp (seq/nonseq) on twins that will actually hold up. I sure hope it is though!

 

In defense of what the thread author has said, I think the 400 rwhp mark on upgraded twins and the stock log manifold can be done - I'm still trying myself.

The thread below contains a post I made a while back using Checkpoint's new twins. I was using a dynapack dyno, not a dynojet. IF (and I say if) the dynojet uses a 15% correction factor (as stated by SPO), when the dynapack uses no correction, then I would show 330.6/.85 = 388.9bhp. But, I've never run on a dynojet, so maybe this is all hooey. I guess I should run on a dynojet and see if there is a difference.

I've been doing extensive datalogit tuning with my wideband with better afr's at the top and timing changes to get faster spoolup (I'm getting 16 lbs boost at the top of first gear, which doesn't really help my traction issues with stock tires. I have the datalog to prove this), and am heading back to the dynapack at Motorsports Dynamics when I change my oil in another 400 miles.

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...5&pagenumber=3

See above for my fuel choked run.

Beast

 

they havent been tested yet....stephen is the guinie pig. I dont think one company (including turbonetics) has had any success at all with upgrading the shaft bearing turbos...all the companies I know gave that up a while back...bnr seems to be doing something different because no one has gotten the results that they claim to have attained.

Ive run my m2 set against an fd with the turbonetics set "the upgraded wheels" and full mods...i won

beast...i have been wondering how your setup is going...Ill take a look at that thread.


we should change the BS flag to "glassman says NO FRIGGEN WAY!" right glass?

anyhow...lets see those charts!

 

460 rwhp is possible on the stock turbos/manifold, i'm not doubting that. but what is impossible is 460rwhp on only 10 psi of boost. even if you had the biggest street port and every mod under the sun i still won't believe it. i don't even need the dyno sheets cause i know it's totally ******* impossible. you have 530hp at the crank at only 1.68 bar of absolute pressure. that means at ambient, your car would make 315hp at the crank. i know for a fact your motor isn't making 315hp naturally aspirated.

 

Glassman is okay - healthy skepticism is good. He has every right to be until we can prove otherwise. So far we cannot.

From a durability perspective I've only got 7K miles on these turbos, but so far so good. They hit 16 psi on a daily basis

In 400 miles I'm back to the dyno, then we drop in the Apexi 3 bar. Some c16 fuel, adjustments to the map scale, and I'll see what happens at 18 and 20 psi, which is where the turbo builder said these should work very nicely. I'm hitting 77% inj. duty cycle with the 1300cc secondaries, so I have a feeling that the Nippo pump is going to go for a Walbro, then 850 primaries and 1600 secondaries.

Oh, and new 17" Fikse's with MT ET Streets for my stock wheels. 15.5 psi is first gear w/ Yokos = tire spin.....

Deco - sent you the log on that....

Beast

 

I still haven't heard back from KDR about my dyno session..... my car was probably stolen....

 

Nobody said it was 10 psi dude. Besides, before you said it wasn't ******* possible on 17psi, due to the design of the stock manifold. Which is it?

 

I've went thru all this **** before and all the BS numbers of what upgraded twins would do (which made me buy them). M2 twins with 18 lbs. on race gas, ported motor, every top-end upgrade and NO 400+rwhp (388@18 then damaged motor from heatsoak!).
Those magic 400+ numbers didn't happen 'till I went single. FACT: stock exhaust manfold is a bottle neck.

So 460 rwhp? sounds like a case of boy who cried wolf. Sorry, I don't buy it- with or without dyno sheets.

 

Hey Beast, are you willing to pass along your PFC maps?I am very interested in your ignition maps.

Also in one of your posts you say,

"3 bar arrived two days ago
The Apexi 3 bar just arrived! Now I have to get it installed and figure out which PIM scale offset to use. The datalogit manual says Option 1 is preset to use the Apexi 3 bar .... we'll see.

I'll redyno at 16 lbs boost now that I've lowered my timing and boosted fuel to compensate. My turbos are now hitting full boost by 4800 rpm (it used to take until about 5500 rpm) , and getting into boost by 2000 rpm. After that I need to install a fuel pressure gauge and then we'll see what's what on the dyno at 18 lbs. After that I'm getting a bit nervous on pos 91 octane Kalifornia gas....not sure about the Nippo pump, either. Might also go to 850 primaries."

So is option 1 preset for the 3 BAR? And have you looked into water injection? I looked into it years ago and after rereseaching it I feel it is the way to go to get high RWHP and reliability out of a rotory on pump octane gas.





fdracer, 460 rwhp on stock twins!? I didn't think the stock turbos could make enough boost to reach that level of RWHP?

I have a question, can anybody post a dyno plot of a sequental twin making 400-400+ RWHP?

 

Capt. Bill - I got a couple of emails saying that switching to option 1 is all you need to do. In 400 miles I'll know if this is true.

Yes, I've been thinking about water injection, too. Just trying to balance cash flow ability with car modification desire. Damn things work in opposite, unfortunately.

Happy to share my maps, but don't look at just ignition - you have to look at fuel, too. In order to speed up low-end spool of the turbos I've dropped timing close to 0, and added lots of fuel at the same time. If you just drop the timing without adding fuel, you'll go lean.

Wait until I get my next dyno before using these maps. I want to see what sort of improvements I have over my last run. If they are worth it, then I'll share - just let me see if all the work I've been doing is worth it.

94SR2 - we Kalifornia folks can't go single due to emissions laws. If we could, I'd have switched to a tubular manifold twin system similar to that crazy Aussie (or is he a Kiwi?) who posts here every once in a while

Beast

 

94sr: what is your list of mods from when you were using the m2 turbos? were you running a large IC? were you running an upgraded radiator? your machine has two oil coolers right? I dont know why you had so much heatsoak. my car runs cooler on 15-16lbs with the m2 set than when i was running 13 on the stock set.

Would you please post your dyno sheet from 388hp at 18lbs? one more lb of boost would have put you at 400 WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ADVERTISED.

Ive got the feeling that your heatsoak and engine problems were not caused by your turbos. Id be seeing the same problems at 16lbs if so. My car runs at 87 degrees Celcius. I see no issues with heatsoak. The hottest my car runs is 95 on a hot summer day. The only time my car ran hotter than that was when xs programmed my ecu wrong and my fans did not come on until 100 degrees. perhaps your fans were set incorrectly. ( i drive mine like nuts too...it will get hot if i drive like a indy driver for extended periods of time...but it will get hot like that if you have a single and drive like that)



bill: dont go putting in anothers maps for your car...you need to do tuning for the maps on your car. he is running non seq and has different turbos. be careful..good to use them for a guide but not for the end all be all. he is probably adjusting his timing according to his peak torque etc... your numbers will differ from his due to your BB set and his shaft bearing set.


jason

 

Just for clarification, artguy- mine are also ball bearing.....and yes I'm trying to flatten out my torque curve by getting the turbos up quicker.

Beast

 

wtf is my problem, i'm too stupid to be alive, i don't know where that 10lbs. comes from. well, anyway 460rwhp is possible on the stock turbos/manifold w/ a monster street port, 25+ psi, and race gas. granted the stock turbos don't last too long.

 

Wow, we really need some dyno sheets here - after 13 pages and 10,000 views, this is going nowhere and no there are some real doubters. I'll post my dyno even if I pull a measily 300 rwhp at 15 psi just to shut some of these guys up.

 

Artguy, I believe his point is they made NO more hp than stockers..remember Anthony made 386 rwhp on the twins..? That also was only one pound or so from 400 rwhp. This is another example of aftermarket hybrids making the same power as the stockers. Both were done on race fuel....The heat made was extreme if he had heat soak...That is a LONG way from 465 rwhp. But I still say wait and see..

 

I can get the charts online if Stephen wants me to. I've been really sick for more than a week and it has sucked.

 

rxtt...the difference is that anthonys run came at boost levels that would mel the stock set to bits...you are missing the point....im using these twins because i run high boost...and the larger wheels and better bearings make them more efficient at high boost.

simple as that.

my response is better too. much better.

lets hope the bnr set is too.

as far as disbelieving...I heckle the guys but i dont think bryan and his crew would BS anyone simply because it has taken his company the past year to get as well known as it is. if he is for real then this has been great advertising for him.

j

 

rxtt...the difference is that anthonys run came at boost levels that would mel the stock set to bits...you are missing the point....im using these twins because i run high boost...and the larger wheels and better bearings make them more efficient at high boost.

simple as that.

**They haven't shown to be more efficient at HIGH boost levels...(I had a set)..Also, Anthony ran 17 psi...the above were aftermarket and were run at 18 psi, higher boost ...(388 hp vs 386 hp) He also got heat soak and ruined his motor..You can't run that "efficient" set up everyday and he was on race fuel to boot.


as far as disbelieving...I heckle the guys but i dont think bryan and his crew would BS anyone simply because it has taken his company the past year to get as well known as it is. if he is for real then this has been great advertising for him.

** It has been how long and NO ONE has been able to show dyno's for any modified twins other than Pettits..(which made the same power as stockers).. so I understand the skeptics..I also agree though, wait for the dyno as both of these guys (Bryan and Stephen) are legit.

 

Beast, thanks, I understand that I need to dial in the A/F along with the ignition. Please let me know how things go with your setup.

Jason, I share your concern about others maps. I just intend to use them as a guide as you stated.

 

Soon, very soon....

 

Well, we are definatly ligit and havent made up one thing. Now if the dyno is wrong or the coversion factors I was givin from everyone are wrong thats really out of my/our control. That is exaclty why I wasnt even going to mention this run from the get go, I was going to wait for a Dynojet run before bringing anything online....but it leaked out and I had to say something.

I went by the dyno shop, they have the dyno and are testing and finishing up the last minute details to get it customer worthy. He told me I should be able to hop on around the begining of this coming week. I'm going to change out my plugs this weekend so they will be fresh.

Paw140 - my plugs were fouled cause I was running a 11:1 a/f at idle and sat in Atlanta traffic for an hour and a half right before the dyno. That pretty much carboned them up and killed them. Then not to mention the cold air temp correction factor dunping a extra 5% fuel in on top of my already safly rich 11.0 a/f ratio that Steve tuned me at....and the bad plugs With all this I still pulled right at 390 blowing huge billows of fuel out the tail pipes....and that was on a Dynojet.

BTW - Even if these didnt make any more power than stockers they would be worth it just for the added spool and cool air temp. I've been runing 17psi of boost daily and driving HARD and my air temp stay right around 20 degrees above ambient with a M2med like IC. That would NEVER happen with stock twins, I contribute it to the better designed turbo. Keep in mind guys these are still about the same or cheaper than any other "upgrades".