NOTE TO ANYONE READING FAST......this statement by GotBoostd7 was just a joke.....see the "lol...just kidding" at the bottom

Just wanted to make sure people saw that cause he was a very valued employee there and still is very good friends with the owner. He even still helps them out sometimes.

He quite on his own terms to start BNR

STEPHEN

 

lol

 

on a side note...I am preparing my car for the dyno early. I was doing an extensive amount of modifications this winter. I have put a lot of stuff on hold in order to get the car on the dyno so we can compare the M2 turbos dyno charts to the BNR set here.

I hadnt planned to get my machine on the dyno til march. Im shooting for an early early feb date now that I have moved to boston.

I imagine that bnr will get their charts sooner than that...at least I hope they will.




j

 

Yea, i should be hitting the dyno this coming week unless something unfortunate happens (knock on wood).

Artguy - I have a good understanding of your mods since we've both been on the forum for quite a while but can you go over them? Also, how much boost will you be running on the dyno? If you dont mind me asking what a/f ratio's will you be tuning for and what timing at wot? I just want to make sure we are comparing apples to apples with similar tuning, mods, and boost level. Oh yea, when you post the boost level use the PFC boost.

STEPHEN

 

Im going to run 18-19lbs (actual boost).... which is the mid-upper efficiency range for the m2 set.

my afrs will be in the range of 11.2 all the way across...which is where they are now but I have to tune for boost which will require more readjusting of the maps.

I will post the exact timing numbers once it is finished. I will also post my fuel maps for analysis.

Im not one to hide info about what is done on my car. Id rather put out the maps and charts and see what everyone thinks.

everyones pfc seems to read boost differently....some are closer to what their guages read...mine happens to be a lb or so off....it says 16lbs when Im actually at 15 lbs or so. I dont know how far yours is off...but will post that info for you to see.


my mod list is below

94 PEG
streetport,1300cc inj,
3mm Ianetti Ceramics,
Nippondenso fuel pump,
PFC/Commander, Pettit intake
M2 Ball Bearing Garrett GT30 Hybrid Twins
M2 Strut Brace
M2 Large stock mount Intercooler
apexi n1 dual catback, hks downpipe, hi flow cat
greddy 3Bar profec b, hks turbo timer
h&r springs, act clutch,
yokohamas, 3bar map sensor
koni yellow adjustable struts
all reliability mods (tiedowns, fan mod,ast etc..),alpine system
stillen x-drilled rotors,
matrix street/strip pads
mazda comp radiator

 

Jason, how long are u going to be in Boston?

 

Well, I'm going to run about 1.1-1.15 on the PFC which seems to be in the 18ish area on the gauge. Sounds like we will be running very similar boost and tuning.

You might or might not know this, but I'm going to mention it anyway just in case. Running that high of boost of pump gas you need to have your leading timing fairly retarted like around 12-13ish at peak tq.....or at least thats my opinion and what I've learned from the real experts.

STEPHEN

 

Let's add the Checkpoint hybrids into the mix, too (Battle of the Hybrids?). These are similar to M2's, but they have the stock manifold changed for an extra wastegate. My mods are similar to artguy, but standard motor, no street port, I will install the three bar after my next dyno run, and I'll be running 1.13 boost per the datalog (thats 14.22*1.13=16 psi). My afrs will probably be between 10.5 and 11 .... it's been raining for the last three days so I have not been able to go bonzai on my favorite deserted roads to do more tuning.

Oh, SPO - funniest thing - my timing at peak torque is set between 8 and 11 :-).

I'm about 300 miles from my oil change and dyno run.

There will be no difference between the car's mods now and the last dyno run I did (link posted earlier - 330.6 rwhp with afrs at 10 or less on a dynapack). We'll see if my tuning has helped.

Beast

 

Yea, I have my leading timing around 12 but I definatly wouldnt want to go over 13. 8-10 is pretty retarded especially for how rich your running. Looks like we've been running about the same boost and a/f's, I've been running between 1.1 and 1.15 on the street but all my previous dyno runs were at 1.1 even with a MAX a/f of 11.08:1

It should be interesting to see the outcome of the different kits.

BTW - What all is done to the Checkpoint manifold? Is all they did is just install a external wg or did they do some porting or smoothing?

What's modded on these turbos? Are they similar to the M2's or what??? What do they cost???

STEPHEN

 

Why do a lot of the Aussies run 0-5 deg at peak torque?

 

I posted a link to another thread that describes my setup and my first dyno (untuned):

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...5&pagenumber=3

Bascially the log manifold is rewelded so the pre-spool door becomes the second wastegate. We did some porting with a port tool, but not enough. If I had it to do again (and I'm sure I will), I'm going to have the manifold extrude honed.

Next time

I've since changed timing for faster spool up (boost starts right at 2000 rpm, even though these are non-seq) fixed all my boost leaks, and tuned for better afrs while still being in the 'safe' zone.

Ran 111 traps (also untuned). My new helmet is on the way and I'll be back as Sac raceway in Feb when the track reopens for Weds. Night grudge drags (cheap - only $15 for at least 4 runs).

Beast

 

What kind of timing are you running to get them to spool up at 2000 rpm?

 

OK, I'll share that little gem with you - zero. By delaying the spark you cause the flame front to still be 'going' when the exhaust port opens up, which spools the turbos faster. My timing moves from the 15~21 degree range on p7 to zero by p 10 (from n 3 to n6). This advice comes from Chris at Checkpoint. This really flattens the torque curve and give you better low-end grunt. He runs a tII repu with a to4 and a Wolf with this sort of timing, and he placed second in ASP Solo SCCA racing with it. People are amazed how fast he can get out of a turn.

You have to add lots of fuel to those area as you drop timing or you'll go lean real fast. I've found 2 to 3 clicks of fuel for every one degree of timing drop are needed. I try to keep 14.7 afrs right up until p9, then go to 13.5 as I transition to boost and try to be at 13 afr at p11. I've also lowered my timing on the edge of the curve as boost builds. On cold days I've hit 15 lbs in first gear (at 8K rpm), and from a rolling 4th gear lug-start I hit full 16 lbs boost at aroudn 4.8K to 5K. I actually hit 14 lbs by 4K and then my wastegates and boost controller are venting so I don't spike. I think once I get the 3 bar and bump up to 18 lbs I'll get to 16 a bit faster since the boost controller will say shut just a hair longer.

I'm really looking forward to the next dyno run to see if all this fiddling about does any good. I do know that even if I don't get to dyno I will get to drag race, and if my trap speeds go over 111mph then I'm improving the process.

Beast

 

The other say I hit 20lbs on my gauge right at 4500rpms. I dont get boost at 2000 but I start to build at around 2500.

Man with 0 timing and added fuel you must be running some scortching hot egt's!!!!!

You got a egt gauge to monitor that???

STEPHEN

 

No, SPO, I don't - but it's on my list. I'm joining Frank's group buy an that 3-gauge center speaker pod he sells. I plan on Defi egt, fp, and oil temp gauge. I'll use the commander to monitor h2o temp.

I'm interested in my egt's no doubt. From a standing start it really doesn't spend much time at zero (less than a second - more like just a couple tenths)- more like around 4 to 9 degrees until boost hits max, then it goes from 10 to 13 (up to peak torque at say 5.8K), then 15 to 19. It will get close to zero when I do low rpm wot runs, but that also doesn't last long since it builds boost fairly fast and moves into the heart of the power band. When I look at my logs, it seems like by 4 degrees it's catching the turbos and getting them up to speed nicely, so maybe I should temper my advice to Bill by saying that dropping your timing into the lower single digits to initiate spool up can get those babies humming a lot faster

Beast

 

beast,
why would you lean out w/ a more retarded timing? are you sure the extra fuel isn't so that there's extra fuel to burn in the exhaust to help spool up?

 

Yes to both questions, but I only understand the 'why' part of one of them - the extra fuel burns in the exhaust to spool up the turbos. In the NA area, I found that by dropping timing without adding fuel my afrs jumped from stoich to 17 (just by dropping one degree!). I don't know why this is the case, however .... maybe someone else can explain? I am unsure why.

Anyhoo, my wideband clearly showed the jump in afrs, so I compensated with extra go-juice. My maps right now look NOTHING like any I've seen posted (and I'm keeping them to myself until I prove they work)

If they work then I'll share. If they don't I don't want to put them out there and f*&k up someone else (or look like a doofus).


Beast

 

Its interesting, I've though about doing that myself before but since I dont have a egt gauge I never did it.

That is basically the same principal as "anti lag" features which can be found in the PFC (with Datalogit) and the Haltech. The only diff is its tuned into your map instead of a switch to turn it on and off.

I'd be interested to see how high your egt's get

STEPHEN

 

OK, I'm going in for an oil change tomorrow, and hopefully to the dyno right after if the car checks out (plugs, fluids, etc). I'll try to go with my mechanic to datalog the whole affair. These are the Checkpoint hybrids running 16 lbs on pump gas with stock porting, using a dynapack

We'll pick up the 3-bar while we're there and put it in afterwards.

Beast

 

With our luck, the Dyno will break, or his car will get stolen. Good luck tomorrow.


Petros

 

Bite your tongue!

Beast

 

Thanks for all the timing info Beast. And I would like to see your maps when you feel ready to pass them on. What kind of splits are you running?

Good luck on the dyno.

 

I'm stealing split info from nocab (big single turbo forum guy) since I think my flow rates are similar to a small single turbo. Running zero split p1 to p9, 4 at p10, and then between 8 and 10 as you move up the boost curve.

Just called Checkpoint - dyno should be lined up if the car checks out.

Beast

 

I just found out that Henry (the owner of Motorsports Dynamics) is in Japan and won't be back until next week. He's the only one qualified to use the dyno, so....no new dyno results today. Maybe next week.

Sorry, folks.

On a positive note I did get my new helmet yesterday, so I'll be ready to hit Sac raceway drags next month.

I also got my team sponsorship number from Mazdaspeed today.

Beast

 

how'd you get mazdaspeed sponsorship?