How to value your FD
Sales Price Data Base
03-31-21, 06:47 PM
#3479
www.AusRotary.com
Last edited by KYPREO; 03-31-21 at 06:50 PM.
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Redbul (03-31-21)
04-01-21, 08:47 PM
#3480
Sure, if you conveniently ignore the higher mileage CYM that brought $15k more literally one week before. Lol. I swear people work way too hard to create their own narrative. R1s and R2s are still more valuable than identical condition/mileage touring or base models and CYM is still king just like conventional forum wisdom has said for 2 decades. It doesn’t matter the platform they are being sold on. Right now there is little to no inventory, especially truly stock cars so the few that pop up are doing very well.
04-01-21, 09:11 PM
#3481
Touring
Sure, if you conveniently ignore the higher mileage CYM that brought $15k more literally one week before. Lol. I swear people work way too hard to create their own narrative. R1s and R2s are still more valuable than identical condition/mileage touring or base models and CYM is still king just like conventional forum wisdom has said for 2 decades. It doesn’t matter the platform they are being sold on. Right now there is little to no inventory, especially truly stock cars so the few that pop up are doing very well.
04-01-21, 11:51 PM
#3482
Sure, if you conveniently ignore the higher mileage CYM that brought $15k more literally one week before. Lol. I swear people work way too hard to create their own narrative. R1s and R2s are still more valuable than identical condition/mileage touring or base models and CYM is still king just like conventional forum wisdom has said for 2 decades. It doesn’t matter the platform they are being sold on. Right now there is little to no inventory, especially truly stock cars so the few that pop up are doing very well.
Second, I said "not necessarily"... Which means that this isn't a case of all or nothing as it pertains to the conventional forum wisdom.
Third, conveniently? Lol I never said the MB was bringing in more money than a comparable CYM. As an FYI I've said it multiple times in the past that I believe the only true (USDM) collector FD is the CYM. And I agree that people work too hard to create their own narrative, in this case its reading into things that aren't there.
Wrong. But go ahead and PROVE that R trims bring in more money outside of the forum. I have discussed this with several people and not one has proven that, not one. But I'll give the benefit of the doubt, maybe you have some data that can finally put this to rest.
Last edited by Montego; 04-02-21 at 01:25 PM.
04-02-21, 01:19 AM
#3483
That Database
What happened to that database? Second asking.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...47&single=true
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...47&single=true
Last edited by Redbul; 04-02-21 at 01:25 AM. Reason: spelling correction
04-02-21, 11:21 AM
#3485
No entries since 2018. Maybe that Google service got discontinued?
People really seemed to jump on the opportunity to self report at first.
It is good data to spot trends.
New v.s. Old. (Low mileage vs lots of mileage)
Modified vs New.
Old and modified vs just old.
Ridiculously low mileage against significant old timers.
Red vs white vs black vs bluegreen vs yellow vs silver.
Anything in between.
People really seemed to jump on the opportunity to self report at first.
It is good data to spot trends.
New v.s. Old. (Low mileage vs lots of mileage)
Modified vs New.
Old and modified vs just old.
Ridiculously low mileage against significant old timers.
Red vs white vs black vs bluegreen vs yellow vs silver.
Anything in between.
Last edited by Redbul; 04-02-21 at 11:26 AM.
04-03-21, 11:02 AM
#3487
If we are talking about outside of the forum and other than a CYM, the R trims have not shown to bring in any more money.
In no particular order and from the data that I've seen on BAT, things that matter are:
Overall condition.
Stock
93 vs 94/95 models
Mileage
Color - White cars are very sought out after
History
If the overall mileage/condition of the cars are similar and the R1 (aka a 93) is an NOT a CYM, then a white 94/95 car brings in more money. Well as long as it isn't an auto of course.
In no particular order and from the data that I've seen on BAT, things that matter are:
Overall condition.
Stock
93 vs 94/95 models
Mileage
Color - White cars are very sought out after
History
If the overall mileage/condition of the cars are similar and the R1 (aka a 93) is an NOT a CYM, then a white 94/95 car brings in more money. Well as long as it isn't an auto of course.
Last edited by Montego; 04-03-21 at 11:13 AM.
04-03-21, 05:32 PM
#3490
I agree that sometimes a motivated buyer can make a car worth more than what we may think the car is valued at. It happens when that buyer just really wants exactly what you may be selling although other examples normally would have a higher value. I prefer an r1 or r2. If I did it all I would buy a r1 or r2. In my area rx7 touring often go for more because people in my area like the sunroof. Many people in my area buy the car more for the looks than all out performance.
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ZE Power MX6 (04-03-21)
04-05-21, 10:02 AM
#3492
I think you are confusing the few outliers of extremely clean touring/base models that are 1-2 owner cars and bone stock bringing good money on BAT. There is no argument to the collector the cleanest, lowest mileage car with fewest owners will likely be the best long term investment but that is such an insanely small percentage of the market its comical you believe it is the norm outside of the forum.
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ZE Power MX6 (04-05-21)
04-05-21, 10:05 AM
#3493
I talk to Rich weekly. We agree on a lot and disagree on several things as well. Rich has a vested interest in low mileage MB/Tan cars being worth a lot. I believe if he were to put his on BAT we would see a new record priced sell in the US. I think he is crazy he hasn't listed it and tell him that regularly. That still doesn't change the facts that R1/R2s have always pulled a premium on every site and always will.
Last edited by djseven; 04-05-21 at 10:08 AM.
04-05-21, 02:12 PM
#3494
No need to be so sensitive. It is just a capitalized word in bold and not a personal attack.
I asked you to prove it not say it...
EDIT-
Ok I did the homework for you and actually DJ... I rest my own case AGAINST myself. FINALLY There is some proof:
From the Hagerty website regarding 93 FDs:
That distinction has recently been added and so R packages net +8% over Base, and Touring +5% over Base. See that was easy as all I ever asked for was some proof to back up what people claimed 
.
But this is good, it puts this to rest:
Others were arguing that the most valuable were the R cars followed by Base and last touring. Turns out the Base is the least coveted and the price difference between R and touring is a measly 3% lol. Gotta laugh at that's what we have been bickering about.
Either way I have sold well over 100 FDs outside of this forum and R1s/R2s have always and always will bring more money. Montego here tries to go only off BAT. On BAT, even there you have 75K mile R1s pulling $40k but no tourings/bases doing that and you have a 107k mile R1 bringing $29k with no touring or bases doing that. Yet, here we are having this tired argument. Its not just the forums, the demand goes like this for the overwhelming majority of FD buyers: CYM(still hideous but it is the true collector), Chaste White, R2s, R1s, Base models, PEP with glass roof, tourings.
EDIT-
Ok I did the homework for you and actually DJ... I rest my own case AGAINST myself. FINALLY There is some proof:
From the Hagerty website regarding 93 FDs:
- #1 Concours$64,400
- #2 Excellent$44,500
- #3 Good$29,900
- #4 Fair$19,300
#4 vehicles are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the body has a minor dent. Split seams or a cracked dash, where applicable, might be present. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or other non- stock additions might be present. A #4 vehicle can also be a deteriorated restoration. "Fair" is the one word that describes a #4 vehicle.
Value Adjustments
+8% for R1 Package, +5% for touring package.But this is good, it puts this to rest:
Others were arguing that the most valuable were the R cars followed by Base and last touring. Turns out the Base is the least coveted and the price difference between R and touring is a measly 3% lol. Gotta laugh at that's what we have been bickering about.
Last edited by Montego; 04-05-21 at 05:08 PM.
04-05-21, 04:37 PM
#3495
No need to be so sensitive. It is just a capitalized word in bold and not a personal attack.
PROVE IT don't just say it, PROVE IT. Because BAT doesn't reflect what you are claiming and neither do collector insurance companies. So you sold over 100 FDs outside of the forum. So in other words, you are claiming to know the market based on the experience where you get to set the prices yourself and claim a premium on what YOU deem valuable, yeah... ok. BAT on the other hand is a great tool because the people bid on what they deem is worth it as so it keeps dealers such as yourself from adding a BS premium for no good reason other than because the car comes with a strut bar and has a second oil cooler.
The big issue here is that some people on here view R trim cars as comparable to:
107K mile R1 for $29K. Well I up one you with that silver touring with 180K miles on the clock that sold $27K. BTW one example doesn't make the rule. That is why I keep saying that the data doesn't support that R cars are consistently bringing in more money. The key word is consistent.
PROVE IT don't just say it, PROVE IT. Because BAT doesn't reflect what you are claiming and neither do collector insurance companies. So you sold over 100 FDs outside of the forum. So in other words, you are claiming to know the market based on the experience where you get to set the prices yourself and claim a premium on what YOU deem valuable, yeah... ok. BAT on the other hand is a great tool because the people bid on what they deem is worth it as so it keeps dealers such as yourself from adding a BS premium for no good reason other than because the car comes with a strut bar and has a second oil cooler.
The big issue here is that some people on here view R trim cars as comparable to:
- Turbo charged supra vs NA supra
- Corvette ZL1/Z06 vs regular corvette
- GT500/GT350/MACH1 vs GT Mustang
- HELLCAT/DEMON/SRT vs regular Challerger/Charger
107K mile R1 for $29K. Well I up one you with that silver touring with 180K miles on the clock that sold $27K. BTW one example doesn't make the rule. That is why I keep saying that the data doesn't support that R cars are consistently bringing in more money. The key word is consistent.
93 Montego/Tan Touring 77k miles $15,500 5/26/16
93 Silver/Black touring 112k miles $17,000 9/20/16
93 Red/tan touring 37k miles $26,000 10/21/16
93 Black/tan base 114k miles $18,888 12/22/16
95 Montego/tan touring 49k miles $20,500 on 2/22/17
93 Montego/tan touring 113k miles $17,250 on 4/12/17
93 Red/Black R1 34k miles $32,000 on 6/13/17 only 20% higher than the 37k red/tan touring, who would have thought….
93 Red/Black R1 85k miles $24k 6/23/17. Carfax shows it was in an accident and still Only 8% less than the red/black touring that had 50k less miles, who would have thought…..winning bidder fails to finalize transaction
93 Red/Black R1 85k miles $17k 8/1/17. This is the relist of the car above and bidders were skeptical after original buyer backed out and no compression numbers were provided.
93 Red Tan BASE 67k miles. $20k (this did not meet reserve) on 8/8/17. Very clean CA car owner had for 21 years.
93 Montego/Tan touring. 51k miles. $21,500 9/13/17. Very clean car with same owner since 94
93 Red/Tan Touring with 74k miles $12,250(reserve not met)9/26/17. I would consider this the average run of the mill FD 5 years ago before values increased and restorations began.
93 Red/Black R1 with 75,500 miles, $16,388(reserve not met) 11/16/17 . FMIC/Lowered and still bid 30% higher than the 74k mile 93 Red/Tan touring model 6 weeks prior….once again, who would have thought……
94 Red/Tan PEP with glass sunroof 51k miles, $25,450 2/21/18 Compression numbers and service history
94 Red/Black Base with 49k miles, $22,722 5/18/18. 84 psi compression, recovered seats in wrong color and engine bay missing pieces.
93 Silver/Black touring 45k miles $23,500 6/1/18 One of the better buys in my opinion for BAT
93 Red/Black touring 17k miles $40k 6/20/18 Really clean example
94 Silver/Black PEP with 67K miles $17,250 sold to Fastrx7man on the forum 7/5/18. Large dent in passenger quarter but otherwise a nice example and good buy.
93 Red/Tan Touring 21k miles $30,250 7/6/18 clean example
93 Montego/Tan Touring 96k miles $16,250 7/12/18 nice repaint and overall clean FL car for the mileage
93 Red/Black Touring 9k miles $49,000 on 7/13/18. Fastrx7man on the forum was the seller. Super clean low mileage car
93 Red/Black Touring 15k miles no reserve ended at $35,000 on 7/23/18 Reliability mods and suspension work
93 Red/Black base 136k miles $18,000 on 8/19/18. Most reliability mods and a PFC and afthermarket wheels
94 Red/Black PEP 31k miles $28,000 on 8/23/18 Sold by dealer
94 Chaste White/Black PEP with Glass roof 29k miles $40,000 on 9/3/18
94 Red/Black Base 9500 miles $47,250 on 9/26/18 Overall clean car
93 CYM/Black R1 111k miles $17,000 on 9/27/18 Modded car with OEM 99 bumper/rear spoiler. Compression in the 60s-80s. Same car today would sell for $30k+ in same condition
93 Silver/black touring 180k miles $26,750 on 10/2/18 Im pretty sure it was verified this deal did not go through but Im not digging through to find the info on this thread. This is a great mystery the selling price of this FD if it was actually finalized.
93 CYM/Black R1 38k miles $37,300 on 10/3/18. Overall clean car.
93 Red/Tan Touring 9k miles $37,250 on 11/5/18. Same price as the CYM with 30k more miles 4 weeks prior. Who would have guessed it….
93 Silver/Red Touring with 2774 miles! $47,000.00 on 11/12/18. Seems the engine bay coating hurt this one some. Over all really clean car.
93 Black/Tan touring 39k miles $23,270 on 11/14/18 Lightly modded and 100psi compression results
93 Silver/Black touring 12k miles $40,000 on 11/20/18.Clean car
93 Red/Tan Touring 17k miles $30,500 on 11/30/18. Not as clean undercarriage as silver car above and brought $10k less.
93 Black/Tan Touring 114k miles $19,600 on 12/26/18
95 Montego/Tan PEP 47k miles $19,500 on 2/12/19. Poor presentation as this car should have brought mid 20s at the time.
95 Montego/Tan PEP 41k miles $26,500 on 2/19/19
93 Red/Tan Touring with 138k miles $17,500 on 3/1/19 Reman engine at 92k miles
94 Montego/Tan PEP with glass roof 80k miles $19,507 on 3/29/19 Original Engine Compression in the 80s
93 Black/Red Auto car. 108k miles $14,252 on 4/1/19
94 montego/Black base mode with 71k miles. $33,750 on 4/15/19 Original owner very clean for mileage.
93 Silver/black touring 48k miles $25,000 on 4/22/19
94 Montego/Tan PEP with 4k miles $70,000 on 4/25/19 and still the record holder for a stock FD I am aware of in the US.
94 Red/Tan Pep with 26k miles $26,250 on 6/24/19 Average condition for mileage
93 Red/Tan Touring with 29k miles $33,000 on 7/1/19. Clean Car
93 Montego/Tan Touring 43k miles $25,050 on 7/9/19 God awful aftermarket wheels
93 montego/Tan Automatic Touring with 29k miles $15,500 on 7/31/19
93 Silver/Red Touring 39k miles $29,750 on 8/8/19
94 Black/Tan PEP with 64k miles $21,751 on 8.20/19 Average run of the mill FD.
93 Silver/Black touring with 174k miles for $12,250 8/29/19. NO ABS, jdm seats and kind of rough car.
93 Silver/Red Touring 2800 miles $52,500 on 9/11/19 Car sold a year earlier for $4500 less
94 Red/Black Base model 54k miles $36,750 on 9/13/19. Overall clean car for mileage
93 montego/tan touring with 55k miles $26,250 on 9/20/19 Just $10k less than the same mileage hardtop 94 the week before. Once again, who would have guessed…..
93 Silver/Black touring with 37k miles $31,000 on 10/2/2019
95 Red/Tan PEP 75k miles $30,250 on 10/11/19. Very tastefully modded car.
94 Black/Tan PEP 70k miles $18,257(reserve not met) on 10/17/19 Rusty underneath
93 Red/Black R1 70k miles $26,500 on 11/15/19. Fairly heavily modded and tracked car.
93 montego/tan touring 34k miles $19,500 on 11/18/19. Only 30% less than the heavily modified R1 with double the mileage the week before. Once again….
94 Black/Tan PEP with 26k miles $34,000 on 11/29/19
94 Red/Tan PEP with Glass roof 47k miles 19,670(reserve not met) on 12/11/19. Decent mods but rusty under neath.
93 Silver/Red Touring with 11k miles $30,250 Not the most desirable mods
93 Red/Black touring 39k miles $31,000 on 1/20/20. Very clean same owner for 25 years
93 Red/Tan touring 21k miles $33,500 on 2/28/20 Clean car located in Canada
94 silver/red PEP 29k miles $36,250 on 3/6/20 Cleanly modded
94 Montego/Tan PEP 63k miles $27,250 3/11/20
94 Chaste White/Black Base 45k miles $43,750 on 4/10/20
93 CYM/Black R1 mileage unknown/discrepancy $26,000 on 4/14/20. Modded car with 105ish compression
94 Black/Black R2 with 16k miles $32,500 on 4/17/20. Barn find in rough shape that had been somewhat restored. Fritz passed on this car before the seller got it if memory serves me correctly.
93 Red/Black R1 with 107k miles $28,250 on 6/24/20 Overall good condition and further proof the R1s and Base models are always bringing a premium over comparable tourings/pep
93 Red/Black R1 with 18k miles $37,000 on 8/3/20. Heavily modded with aftermarket steering wheel and damage to paint/fenders from wheels rubbing
93 Red/Black Base 64k miles $33,000 on 8/21/20. Overall clean car with some mods.
93 Black/Black R1 with 73k miles $39,500 on 8/28/20. Some mods but same owner for 25 years.
93 Red/Tan touring with 37k miles $42,500 on 8/31/20 Really clean stock car
93 Red/Black touring with 73k miles $37,750 on 9/10/20/ One owner very clean CA car.
93 Red/Tan touring with 41k miles $34,751 on 9/16/20
94 Silver/Black PEP with mileage discrepancy $25,000 on 9/17/20
93 Red/Black R1 48k miles $35.250 on 9/23/20 95-100 psi compression
93 Montego/Tan Base 108k miles $26,250 9/24/20 Hard top win again
93 Red/Black touring 95k miles $23,250 10/26/20
93 Red/Black base 14k miles $40,000 11/2/20 British Columbia Car
93 CYM/Black R1 with 40k miles $35,250 on 11/9/20 Involved in Accident and paint work.
93 Montego/Tan Touring 65k miles $31,000 on 11/17/20 Clean FL Car
93 Montego/Tan Touring 35k miles $46,500 on 3/29/21
I just wasted two hours of my life(not wasted as much as Montego will be after reading this) hoping you will finally stfu with your nonsense. The proof is there. R models and even base models(hard tops) bring a premium over an apples to apples touring car. Its proven over and over again although there are unfortunately very few examples of R1 models, especially clean ones that have sold through BAT.
The overall takeaways are:
Montego is wrong. Hard tops-R models and the few base models sell for a considerable amount more than a near identical mileage/history/condition touring every single time.
Overall the FD is still continuing to rise in value
One ower or long time owned FDs pull a premium period unless automatic.
Really low mileage and really clean stock cars pull a premium.
CW, though a rare sample size, is highly sought after
Last edited by djseven; 04-05-21 at 04:40 PM.
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04-05-21, 05:14 PM
#3496
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene.../#post12342034
But... Uhm did you see my update? lol I started to edit it before I saw your reply so my bad. Anyway dude, your anger towards me is palpable but it's kinda funny though because it's not that serious. But I will say that I do take some enjoyment that you could have had your chance to really show me up but too bad you didn't go to hagerty first
The proof is there. R models and even base models(hard tops) bring a premium over an apples to apples touring car. Its proven over and over again although there are unfortunately very few examples of R1 models, especially clean ones that have sold through BAT.
The overall takeaways are:
Montego is wrong. Hard tops-R models and the few base models sell for a considerable amount more than a near identical mileage/history/condition touring every single time.
The overall takeaways are:
Montego is wrong. Hard tops-R models and the few base models sell for a considerable amount more than a near identical mileage/history/condition touring every single time.
+8% for R1 Package, +5% for touring package
I'll say it again:
Others were arguing that the most valuable were the R cars followed by Base and last touring. Turns out the Base is the least coveted and the price difference between R and touring is a measly 3% lol. Gotta laugh at that's what we have been bickering about.
Last edited by Montego; 04-05-21 at 06:09 PM.
04-05-21, 05:53 PM
#3497
What I don't understand is what has happened to supply in the past 5 years. According to the most recent registration numbers, there have supposedly been a relatively constant ~5k registered FDs since 2015 (after fairly steep annual declines before that). But I don't see that current supply when doing searches. Five years ago you could find ~80 FDs doing a national search on Autotrader or the like. Now searches on Autotrader or CarGurus return about a dozen FDs. My local SF Bay Craiglist would often have 8-10 FDs for sale. Now it's typically one or none.
Last edited by moconnor; 04-05-21 at 05:56 PM.
04-05-21, 06:14 PM
#3498
BAT gets you no where as I already did this exercise a while back:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene.../#post12342034
but you're still 50% wrong because the Base is the lowest tier and fetches the least amount of $$
I'll say it again:
You realize that 3% of 30,000 is just $900 bucks right? That's what were arguing about lol
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene.../#post12342034
but you're still 50% wrong because the Base is the lowest tier and fetches the least amount of $$
I'll say it again:
You realize that 3% of 30,000 is just $900 bucks right? That's what were arguing about lol
04-05-21, 06:57 PM
#3499
Edit- Hey DJ care to explain why there are 106 listings on BAT but your list only contains 83? Now you wouldn't be leaving out cars on purpose would you...To add, it is hilarious that you are trying to argue against what a collector car insurance company has found what these cars are worth. Completely ignoring that this is their sole business model, to value cars and now its in unmistakable: They have literally broken down values based on trim and you are 50% wrong. Base cars bring in the least and the R's are at a measly 3% above touring. But oh ok Mr.100 FD guy who thinks he knows better and yet who once argued that these cars would never appreciate in value.
Ohh.. again with the personal jabs when none are warranted. Poor fragile little DJ can't handle a debate that he starts without personal insults because for some odd reason he has his self worth tied to an anonymous forum. Pretty pathetic actually.
Last edited by Montego; 04-05-21 at 09:31 PM.
04-05-21, 07:01 PM
#3500
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (32)
Not getting involved in this kerfuffle - but thanks for putting this list together! (Though, I have a black/black R1 with 56k miles so have my biases.)
What I don't understand is what has happened to supply in the past 5 years. According to the most recent registration numbers, there have supposedly been a relatively constant ~5k registered FDs since 2015 (after fairly steep annual declines before that). But I don't see that current supply when doing searches. Five years ago you could find ~80 FDs doing a national search on Autotrader or the like. Now searches on Autotrader or CarGurus return about a dozen FDs. My local SF Bay Craiglist would often have 8-10 FDs for sale. Now it's typically one or none.
What I don't understand is what has happened to supply in the past 5 years. According to the most recent registration numbers, there have supposedly been a relatively constant ~5k registered FDs since 2015 (after fairly steep annual declines before that). But I don't see that current supply when doing searches. Five years ago you could find ~80 FDs doing a national search on Autotrader or the like. Now searches on Autotrader or CarGurus return about a dozen FDs. My local SF Bay Craiglist would often have 8-10 FDs for sale. Now it's typically one or none.