Will push start, will not start with starter cranking?!
Thread Starter
Rotang Enthuesiest!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 97
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From: Victoria B.C. Canada
Will push start, will not start with starter cranking?!
1987 TII
Drove to a store parked it. Came back and car would crank but not start, not even a sputter as if no fuel. Starter cranks at a good rate. Has good spark. Just for the heck of it I tried push starting it and it fired right up within a couple feet and ran great all the way home. Parked on a hill and tried turning it off and restarting with starter. Once again cranks great, no start. Roll it a few feet and way she purrs again. I have a pretty good idea of the fuel system on these cars their pitfalls and upkeep (properly tested/upgraded wiring) and everything seems to check out. Any one else experience this weird issue before or where I should look first?
Drove to a store parked it. Came back and car would crank but not start, not even a sputter as if no fuel. Starter cranks at a good rate. Has good spark. Just for the heck of it I tried push starting it and it fired right up within a couple feet and ran great all the way home. Parked on a hill and tried turning it off and restarting with starter. Once again cranks great, no start. Roll it a few feet and way she purrs again. I have a pretty good idea of the fuel system on these cars their pitfalls and upkeep (properly tested/upgraded wiring) and everything seems to check out. Any one else experience this weird issue before or where I should look first?
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 247
Likes: 7
From: Suffolk, Va
I would say follow the below deflood procedure next time it does this and see if that works. If so they you have te dreaded hot start issue where car is flooded. Does the car start 1st thing in the morning with no issues when it is cold? If so then this sounds like your issue. There are lots of posts concerning this and stuff that could cause the issue. I myself have a fuel cut switch so I don't have to pull the fuse. I am hoping a good tune corrects my issue.
De-flood procedure:
Open underhood fusebox.
Remove EGI fuse.
Crank car for about 30 seconds or so.
Reinstall EGI fuse.
DO NOT PUMP THE ACCELERATOR.
Start car.
De-flood procedure:
Open underhood fusebox.
Remove EGI fuse.
Crank car for about 30 seconds or so.
Reinstall EGI fuse.
DO NOT PUMP THE ACCELERATOR.
Start car.
Thread Starter
Rotang Enthuesiest!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 97
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From: Victoria B.C. Canada
I highly doubt its flooding. Good compression 115+ tested a couple days ago. Wont start hot, wont start cold. Fires up nearly instantly with a push start. I will try the de flooding technique (this is my 8th rx7 so I have pretty good idea and try not to ask dumb questions). My Rtek ecu shows the injectors firing and i have manually tested the fuel pump with a hardwired battery attached. still nothing with the starter cranking... push it fires and runs mint. I bet it doesn't even make 4 revolutions before ignition and running.
Compression is lowered w/a flooded engine so it's not out of the question. And if the speed of the starter is not enough that can cause problems even if it sounds like that's not the problem. If you spayed no more than 2 seconds of starter fluid and it starts w/o the need for a push then that points you in the direction of a flooded engine.
Does it sound like a good, strong crank attempt? Please meter the +B supply to starter and reference ground where starter ground terminates. Monitor the voltage drop during cranking.
Thread Starter
Rotang Enthuesiest!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 97
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From: Victoria B.C. Canada
At cranking reads 10.6 volts cranking very strong. I have had it hooked up to charger/starter and cranking reading near 12v also very strong still no start. Push it a couple feet and zoom zoom
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest you test your water thermo 'sensor'. If you search, you will find specs that will allow you to test yours. I recommend you do this at the ecu itself by back probing the harness plug with a paperclip. Obviously, if you get no reading at all, then you have a break in the wiring somewhere between ecu and sensor..
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Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Smiths Falls.(near Ottawa!.Mapquest IT!)
Just a quick glance..
Some FC's do not like being parked on a hill...mine didn't.
As you found out,get it on a flat area and YEP..starts up every time..
Some FC's do not like being parked on a hill...mine didn't.
As you found out,get it on a flat area and YEP..starts up every time..
Thread Starter
Rotang Enthuesiest!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Victoria B.C. Canada
Update.. Got it up on the lift and did the old jump the starter terminals with a screwdriver... Fires up every time. Any ideas where to start looking now? Must be something to do with ignition cylinder/ faulty relay?
Ooh, this makes me think.. If you do a search for an old thread of mine titled "fuel pressure?" you will find information that hailers provided me on the starting circuit. Now, my particular situation was more related to the fact that I had done an automatic to manual conversion, but the diagnostic he provided me with might help you.
Will push start, will not start with starter cranking?!
What do you mean? Same issue?
The car in this thread would start up when HOT but not when the engine was cold.
The reason for that trait was his ECU was not seeing the START signal from the start circuit because he had done a transmission swap from automatic to manual which resulted in him bypassing the original start circuit and installing a different circuit which in turn did not allow the ECU to see the start signal.
He overcame that small problem by splicing another new wire to his start wire at the starter solenoid and putting the other end of that new wire into the plug called E-14 (a automatic transmission car only item) to mate with the original factory start signal to the ECU pin 3B.
He found out he had this problem by going to the ECU. He took his meter and pricked the wire at 3B which is L/B or Black with a Blue stripe on it on the lower row of wires and to the far right of that plug. You should see batt voltage when the key is held to Start. If not, then that poses a problem that needs fixing (unless you live in Honduras).
IF you have batt power at 3B, then the next thing to look for is approx 2-3 vdc on pin 2I (green/white wire in the middle plug, upper row, sort of in the middle). If you have 2-3vdc when the engine is cold and once the engine is HOT, you have 0.40 to a half volt dc on that wire, then there is nothing wrong with the water thermo sensor. If you have voltage at 3B and the voltage at 2I I just mentioned, then the problem isn't the same thing and what's wrong is * ANOTHER THING*.
'This FIX isn't for a car that is difficult to start when HOT but starts just fine COLD. Actually THAT problem can be over come by eliminating the start signal seen at 3B so the ECU uses the afm for starting fuel instead of the Start fuel map inside the ECU.
The car in this thread would start up when HOT but not when the engine was cold.
The reason for that trait was his ECU was not seeing the START signal from the start circuit because he had done a transmission swap from automatic to manual which resulted in him bypassing the original start circuit and installing a different circuit which in turn did not allow the ECU to see the start signal.
He overcame that small problem by splicing another new wire to his start wire at the starter solenoid and putting the other end of that new wire into the plug called E-14 (a automatic transmission car only item) to mate with the original factory start signal to the ECU pin 3B.
He found out he had this problem by going to the ECU. He took his meter and pricked the wire at 3B which is L/B or Black with a Blue stripe on it on the lower row of wires and to the far right of that plug. You should see batt voltage when the key is held to Start. If not, then that poses a problem that needs fixing (unless you live in Honduras).
IF you have batt power at 3B, then the next thing to look for is approx 2-3 vdc on pin 2I (green/white wire in the middle plug, upper row, sort of in the middle). If you have 2-3vdc when the engine is cold and once the engine is HOT, you have 0.40 to a half volt dc on that wire, then there is nothing wrong with the water thermo sensor. If you have voltage at 3B and the voltage at 2I I just mentioned, then the problem isn't the same thing and what's wrong is * ANOTHER THING*.
'This FIX isn't for a car that is difficult to start when HOT but starts just fine COLD. Actually THAT problem can be over come by eliminating the start signal seen at 3B so the ECU uses the afm for starting fuel instead of the Start fuel map inside the ECU.
Just humor me.. Grab your meter and go spend ten minutes.
Last edited by Acesanugal; May 6, 2016 at 09:52 PM.
bov ftw
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
From: Ft.Worth, TX
I've had this exact issue before. I changed my starter, I changed my ignition coil (where the key goes), and I even piggy-backed new lines to the starter.
Eventually I just rigged a push start button to the starter solenoid and PRESTO, probelmo solvedo!
I also rigged a breaker to the battery and a switch to the fuel pump.
Turn on the car? Key in on position, battery breaker on, fuel pump switch on, and then PUSH START! My push start is in the cigarette lighter position as well B) so fresh and so clean clean
Eventually I just rigged a push start button to the starter solenoid and PRESTO, probelmo solvedo!
I also rigged a breaker to the battery and a switch to the fuel pump.
Turn on the car? Key in on position, battery breaker on, fuel pump switch on, and then PUSH START! My push start is in the cigarette lighter position as well B) so fresh and so clean clean
You're losing voltage/amps before the starter. Jump voltage from the battery to the wire from the starter cut relay to the starter solenoid which should be Black/White (do it at the relay). If that engages the starter and starts the car then your issue could be the relay itself.
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