2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992) 1986-1992 Discussion including performance modifications and technical support sections.
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Old 07-13-16, 11:24 AM
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I met my wife in high school, so it's the wrong answer.
Old 07-13-16, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jjwalker
The gray hairs take root like a invasive weed!
Booyah!, son, of course they do.
Grey hairs are the Marines of the follicle world...they remain when all your *****, baby hair gives up and falls to its death.
The downside is that being old, they sometimes storm and hold the wrong beach, staking a claim and valiantly defending a patch say, in your ear or on your nose.
The upside is that they grow in wildly different rates and textures, so your lifelong dream of being a Dr. Seuss character is going to come true.
Old 07-13-16, 12:11 PM
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I have this mental image of what you might look like, clokker, and I must say. It's bizarre.


Something like this:





Or maybe tis:

Old 07-13-16, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by clokker
Booyah!, son, of course they do.
Grey hairs are the Marines of the follicle world...they remain when all your *****, baby hair gives up and falls to its death.
The downside is that being old, they sometimes storm and hold the wrong beach, staking a claim and valiantly defending a patch say, in your ear or on your nose.
The upside is that they grow in wildly different rates and textures, so your lifelong dream of being a Dr. Seuss character is going to come true.
Personally, I was thinking more alone the lines of Professor Irwin Corey, who believe it or not will be 102 years old at the end of this month.
Attached Thumbnails She Followed Me Home, Honest-corey27n-2-web.jpg  

Last edited by DeaconBlue; 07-13-16 at 03:22 PM.
Old 07-13-16, 03:27 PM
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That seems accurate. I'm still laughing, but 102 years old? I know this gets said a bunch when a person becomes a centenarian, imagine what they have seen and experienced. Amazing things have happened in the past 20 years, but imagine seeing it from the perspective of someone who grew up just after the turn of the century.
Old 07-14-16, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ACR_RX-7
Yeah, 30......

I'll come clean. I'm 27, but I at least am married with a house and a career. 10+ years in the automotive field and I'm considering teaching once I get to 30ish.


BTW, clokker. My parents are in their 50's and are deep in the obnoxiously weird phase. I do hope they grow out of it. My dad has some of the gray hairs, but has not taken to yelling at clouds yet.
You know you will live to resemble this statement, don't you?
Old 07-14-16, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jackhild59
You know you will live to resemble this statement, don't you?
Dear God, I hope not!!!
Old 07-14-16, 11:53 AM
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Here's a little secret...
Inside every 90 year old shambling through Costco is a 17 year old going, "WTF?".

BTW, this also points out why you should avoid Costcos in the event of a zombie apocalypse.
Old 07-14-16, 12:04 PM
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I believe that to be completely true about men. I, for the most part, still think like I'm 18.

I don't know if women are the same, I suspect not.
Old 07-14-16, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by clokker
Here's a little secret...
Inside every 90 year old shambling through Costco is a 17 year old going, "WTF?".

BTW, this also points out why you should avoid Costcos in the event of a zombie apocalypse.
Good tip. I try to avoid my mom's current boyfriend. The dude is in his 70's and is a strange dude. He's the kind that has his truck covered in political bumper stickers and loves going to Old Country Buffet.

The first time he took my mom and I out to dinner to a buffet, he wouldn't stop repeating: "You won't believe the stuff they have here. Just look at all this food. It's amazing. They even have dessert. You won't believe it."

It was like listening to a late night infomercial. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!!!
Old 07-14-16, 10:07 PM
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"I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."
-Blanche DuBois


Out of the blue- and the kindness of his own heart, too- forum member Rikk offered a MAP sensor to Sprocket, free of charge...wouldn't even accept shipping.
The part, amazingly well packaged, arrived today, a day early:
Name:  MAP.jpg
Views: 69
Size:  304.3 KB

And I'm clear of codes, it works.
So, that's one problem solved and again, thanks, Rikk.

The exhaust remains as the most pressing issue to address.
I'm still waffling about what cat to get but I was determined to use OEM gaskets regardless and boy howdy, them things ain't cheap. I knew Mazdatrix wants about $18 (plus shipping) for the two main gaskets and the air pipe gasket was @$6, I think.

Went to my local dealer (who's been quite cooperative) and got comparable pricing except for the little pipe gasket, which for some reason was $28. He says it's a layered metal/glass gasket like the main ones and the cheaper ones are just fiber.
I was hesitant till offered a big enough discount to make it seem reasonable.
Those will be in next week and by then I hope to have decided what part to get.

On the side I've been trying to get a Mazda6 gauge cluster figured out and it's going poorly, so I'm about to give up and get back on the Miata hybrid setup.
The lighting is awful and I'm thinking LEDs might be the easiest solution but of course, I know nothing.
Is it really as simple as plugging in the appropriate replacement?
Our sockets seem pretty common, so is it plug-n-play?
Old 07-14-16, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ACR_RX-7
Dear God, I hope not!!!
Freud or Mendel.
Nurture or Nature.

You carry their genres. You spent what, +/-18 years under their direct influence?

The surprise will be if you don't end up just like them.

Sorry for the bad news.

Last edited by jackhild59; 07-14-16 at 11:14 PM.
Old 07-14-16, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by clokker
And I'm clear of codes, it works.
So, that's one problem solved and again, thanks, Rikk.
Well that's good news. Any driving differences at all? Or did the PCM simply not like the old one?

Originally Posted by clokker
On the side I've been trying to get a Mazda6 gauge cluster figured out and it's going poorly, so I'm about to give up and get back on the Miata hybrid setup.
The lighting is awful and I'm thinking LEDs might be the easiest solution but of course, I know nothing.
Is it really as simple as plugging in the appropriate replacement?
Our sockets seem pretty common, so is it plug-n-play?


What year Mazda6, engine and trans too?

I have access to AllData and Identifix, among other resources. I can try and go through and compare them and give you an idea.




Originally Posted by jackhild59
Freud or Mendel.
Nurture or Nature.

You carry their genres. You spent what, +/-18 years under their direct influence?

The surprise will be if you don't end up just like them.

Sorry for the bad news.






Hey, at least I will get some inheritance after all.
Old 07-14-16, 11:23 PM
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clokker, not sure which spark plugs you are running in the "new-to-you" S5 13b engine, but I just learned about the RX-8 spark plug trick. If you have some spare cash the NGK #RE7C-L leading spark plugs from the RX-8 really do offer a big improvement over the stock FC NGK #BUR7EQ. They made a huge difference in my S5 13b;

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati.../#post12085624
Old 07-15-16, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ACR_RX-7
Well that's good news. Any driving differences at all? Or did the PCM simply not like the old one?
Not sure, haven't driven her yet.

During my abbreviated search for an alternative MAP sensor I found some general advice (not rotary specific) that recommended the sensor be placed higher than the vac port it's connected to and the hose be as short as possible. My install was neither, so I'm looking for alternative locations.

Also, I'm curious about the restrictor pill in the vac line.
I have one but wonder what it really does and if my high altitude makes it redundant.
Easy thing to check.

Originally Posted by DeaconBlue
I just learned about the RX-8 spark plug trick. If you have some spare cash the NGK #RE7C-L leading spark plugs from the RX-8 really do offer a big improvement over the stock FC NGK #BUR7EQ.
It's an intriguing idea.
Once I get comfortable with the new engine and finish the baseline setup (for instance, I've yet to actually check the timing), it'd be interesting to see if the trick plugs make that much difference.
Old 07-15-16, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by clokker
During my abbreviated search for an alternative MAP sensor I found some general advice (not rotary specific) that recommended the sensor be placed higher than the vac port it's connected to and the hose be as short as possible. My install was neither, so I'm looking for alternative locations.
Yes, that is critical. You want to ECU to have the most accurate real time data. Long vacuum lines tend to mask small changes in manifold pressure as well as create delays in what the sensor is reading. The best setup would be a sensor that threads into the intake plenum manifold casting itself.
Old 07-15-16, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by clokker
Also, I'm curious about the restrictor pill in the vac line.
I have one but wonder what it really does and if my high altitude makes it redundant.
Easy thing to check.
The restrictor pill smooths out the vacuum pulses to the sensor so that it receives a cleaner signal. The older PCMs did not have the sophistication to filter out the noise themselves, like a modern car can. You do want the hose as short as possible and at a vacuum port that registers all runners evenly, closest to the throttle body is best.
Old 07-15-16, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ACR_RX-7
You do want the hose as short as possible ... closest to the throttle body is best.
The stock feed location is down just above the LIM, about as far from the throttle body as possible.
Think it'd benefit from a different source?
Old 07-15-16, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by clokker
The stock feed location is down just above the LIM, about as far from the throttle body as possible.
Think it'd benefit from a different source?
Honestly, no.

In general, you want it as close to the throttle body as possible, but in the case of the 13B NA, it takes its source right at the primary runners. This may be why the pill is in the line, to smooth the pulses from the location.

Hose with no pill, close to TB.

Stock, leave it where it is.
Old 07-15-16, 10:36 PM
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OK, stuffs I've done...
Set timing with light.
Checked/reset TPS.
Fiddled with the air bypass to get smooth 800rpm idle.
Mounted MAP sensor in new location, vac hose (with restrictor pill) is about 4" long.
Long as the MAP is not position sensitive (it's rotated 90° from stock, the hose and electrical point to the side instead of straight down), it should be good.
First test after the adjustments comes tomorrow morning, my weekly pilgrimage to Sigfrid's.

The exhaust noise is distracting but I think she's running quite nicely.
Old 07-15-16, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by clokker
OK, stuffs I've done...

Mounted MAP sensor in new location, vac hose (with restrictor pill) is about 4" long.
Long as the MAP is not position sensitive (it's rotated 90° from stock, the hose and electrical point to the side instead of straight down), it should be good.
.
It's not position critical.

A MAP sensor is simply a piezoelectric membrane mounted in a plastic case with a rubber seal around the case and a reference port to allow differential voltage to occur.
Old 07-15-16, 11:52 PM
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Good to know.
Old 07-17-16, 09:23 AM
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We worked on the Z yesterday and made some solid progress, but first, some FC news.
The drive over to Sigfrid's was the first "code-free" drive and she's running just fine. No, I could not tell any difference with the new MAP sensor but the ECU likes it, so, whatever. I got stuck in construction traffic and gave the efan system a good workout...the BMW trigger switch is operating great and I'm gaining confidence in it daily.
Soon it'll get to the point that I ignore it completely, which is as it should be.

You know what's amazing?
How far off an engine can be and still seem to run fine.
We used my new superzoot Harbor Freight timing light on the Z and found the timing to be waaaay off.
Idle timing is supposed to be @12°, advancing to @25°...we had 28° and no advance at all (because the vac hose wasn't hooked up). Got all that straightened out and then tweaked the carb a bit (idle and accelerator pump mostly) and she almost literally purrs now.
With the current drivetrain she may never be fast, but she drives like a peach...very smooth and responsive.
Be interesting to see what the mileage does now.

Encouraged by success, we moved on to the interior- totally uncharted territory for us, the panels we're installing haven't seen the light of day for three years.
My once magnificent hardware collection has been picked nearly bare (oh, I still have maybe 30lbs of regular, standard stuff but all the really nice/useful/weird bits are gone), so we struggled to gather the push pins and clips we needed but finally managed to get the quarter glass surrounds and rear headliner trim installed. The rear defrost grid is complete and hooked up.

We stripped the vinyl from the DS door card, cut the speaker hole out and installed it.
Temporarily.
We need to redesign the panel to better match/flow into the Miata dash we installed, replace and reposition the armrest and in general, make it fit the aesthetic of the interior. No more chrome plated plastic and fake wood trim strips (the Z is very much a child of the sixties/seventies).

I haven't a clue how we'll do it but I suspect fiberglass will be involved.

BTW, although I always say "we" did something, the fact is Sigfrid does all the heavy lifting while I stand by, drink coffee and smoke.
I am very good at my job.

Except for the electrical, that is.
My previous attempt at fixing the small electrical glitch has lead to an even weirder glitch and I am pissed. There is something very basic wrong and I'm beginning to realize that a fix is not just going to be superficial or easy, I need to get down to the very bones and perform major surgery.
It's all my fault for being so cavalier as I "designed"/assembled the harness, I should have been more careful.

Fortunately, I do have a complete and 99% functional harness to work with, so I'm not needing components or having to figure out circuits...that's all been done. It's the way I interconnected and activate the circuits that tripped me up...somehow.
I'm thinking a major re-do is in my immediate future.
Dammit.

Today I'm off to Hiko's to donate some parts to his build and visit my old engine.
It'll be nice to see a project I'm not responsible for.
Old 07-20-16, 09:44 AM
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While I await resolution of my exhaust problem (it's too damn loud, I need a cat!) and the energy to mess with my gauge cluster (need to install the VDOs and find some LEDs), I got sidetracked by the steering wheel.
I realized after driving the Z again last weekend that the Audi "Sport" wheel is just about the most perfect wheel I've ever used and I really wanted one for the FC.
Online research revealed that there are two different versions of the wheel- one has audio controls and the other doesn't. Although junkyard pickers cannot be too choosey, I'd much prefer the plain, non-buttoned version for my car (the Z's wheel has them and I made them part of the horn system...it looks fine with the Miata dash but is kinda too modern for the FC interior).

My yard currently has eleven Audis in stock (they helpfully post the inventory online) but what were the chances than one of them would have the Sport Package upgrade with decent leather, no extra controls and an unexploded air bag?
100% as it happens and it only cost $14.

This was after proving that I'd removed the airbag ignitor (which would have been an extra $25... still a bargain if you need the airbag functional) and refusing to sign a "federal explosive device registry" of some unknown provenance. They claimed that since the bag itself was still present (you really can't remove the bag without destroying the center pad cover but the ignitor is just four nuts and it's off), the device was considered live and needed to be signed for.
It didn't help that none of the counter guys had any clue how an airbag works or what they look like.
Anyway, logic ultimately prevailed (a snarky way of saying that I was right and they were fools).

Does an Audi steering wheel fit a FC steering column?
Oh, hell no...of course not.
There are three major issues to contend with:
-convert to the proper spline
-get the hub to sit the correct distance from the column switch so it doesn't crush the turn signal cancel collar and drill the two holes to accept the collar nubbins
-fab/install a horn slipring.

When I first contemplated these wheels a few years ago (prior to the Z project I'd looked at these for my car at least twice), I couldn't see an easy way to make them fit but as usual, marinate an idea in some time and things might happen and I now see the "problem" as a benefit.

VAG cars have a completely unique steering wheel setup that results in a gigantic center hole in the wheel hub (the FC center hole is around 1/2>5/8", the Audi's is about 1 1/8").
This seemed to be a real problem at first but then one day, as I contemplated my spare wheels, I realized I could sacrifice a stocker (in this case, a two spoke, vinyl base model wheel that I would never use) and maybe make this work.
And indeed, you can.

I cut the needed part from the stock wheel, turned it on the lathe to a press fit in the Audi hub and used JB Weld as I hammered it home. I then pinned it in three places and am very confident it cannot move.
The rear of the Audi hub had a large boss sticking out that had to be progressively ground down till the TS cancel collar had clearance.

So, the wheel now bolts on securely and the turn signals cancel, which leaves the horn contact/slipring. In the past I've dealt with this in two ways...either space the ring out to meet the spring loaded contact or add an extention to the contact to meet the slipring.
I much prefer the first approach and after some contemplation, decided to harvest the plastic trim from the back of a Mitsubishi wheel I'd tried years ago (yeah, I have way too many steering wheels).
It was remarkable how well this worked out.

I actually have some pics of the process that I'll post up later, after it's all done.
I still have to make the metal slipring itself (to fit the Mitsu plastic) and get some GOOP to final assemble but it should be all finished in a few hours.

And, before I put up pics...
I've tried just about every steering wheel there is- all different sizes and rim thicknesses- and realize it's a bold statement to say the Audi is the absolute best I've had.
It might help to explain the logic.

I learned a trick when setting up racebikes that I continue to employ in my car...blindfolds.
You put the blind rider on the bike and rotate, move and adjust everything till it "fits" the rider.
Why the blindfold?
Because people tend to go for symmetry and if they see the hand levers (for instance) are at two different positions, they think it's wrong even if it's actually the most efficient placement.

So, get in your car, close your eyes and start trying to operate the controls...do they "fall to hand" (as LKJ Setright might say), are they comfortable and natural to use?
This Audi wheel may not be the most visually striking or attractive but it's got all the right bumps and thickness to feel completely natural when driving. It actually makes steering easier.

The corollary to the blindfold test is to take a spin and then think back on what you remember about the physical act of driving...anything that sticks out is wrong.
The experience should be as transparent as possible, just your input and the car's response.
The devices in the middle should make no impression at all, they do what's asked of them and you need not pay any attention or expend extra care/effort in the process.

Being blind and oblivious can be useful sometimes.
Old 07-20-16, 10:25 AM
  #2400  
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Have you figured out a way to remove the audi logo? It kind of sticks out, seeing photos of it in the Z.


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