2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992) 1986-1992 Discussion including performance modifications and technical support sections.

She Followed Me Home, Honest

Old Oct 23, 2013 | 08:26 AM
  #901  
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From: Mile High
Originally Posted by TonyD89
I wish I was closer, I'd mill that spacer down for ya.
Man, I wish.
It's quite frustrating making all this by hand, especially since I know how easy and perfect it would be made on a mill.
I am not one of those old world craftsmen who can saw in a straight line and takes delight in spending endless hours filing/finishing...I am American, after all.
So, I can see the idealized vision in my head and am almost always saddened by the blobby, asymmetrical product of my hands.

*sigh*

Speaking of asymmetric and blobby, we have the valve cover.
It's craven to bitch, Datsun splashed out for a cast aluminum piece instead of stamped steel so that was nice, but they made the blandest, most uninteresting piece possible.
Rather than crisp and cool, this cover looks like it was inflated over the head.

And it is very large, the visual centerpiece of the whole bay.

I first painted it silver.
"Cast aluminum", actually, a very nice matte grey/silver, which unfortunately damped out the scant details the casting does have.
A darker color was called for but there's too much black in the bay already and I fear it's getting boring, that obvious choice was a no-go.

So, driftsequence gets his way, red it is.
The lettering and detail lines will be sanded back to bare metal but that's it, no second color.

The reason I'm being so careful with the cover is that there's a whole other project going on that will be the "setting" for the valve covers "crown jewel" aspect...there's more going on than you've seen so far.
Think Lagonda or old Bugatti...

On another front, we have the alternator install.
Turns out, our mongrel engine has a 280ZX crank pulley.
This is not a problem from a balance perspective but the pulley sheave spacing is slightly different than original...and that is an issue.
Fortunately, this "wrong" pulley lines up perfectly with our new alternator, so it's only the waterpump pulley that needs work.
I'm making a spacer to move the pump pulley out by @.125" and we'll see how it goes.
Until the engine runs, it's difficult to tell.

And yes, I'm being cagey with the pics.
Lately, towards the end of every month, Photobucket has been warning that I'm approaching the 10Gb bandwidth limit and I need to upgrade to a paid account.
I'm trying to avoid that...
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Old Oct 24, 2013 | 05:21 AM
  #902  
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http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3230245AAlVNTE
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Old Oct 24, 2013 | 07:48 AM
  #903  
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Yahoo answers...really?

Anyway, I think I've handled it.
Most of my early forum activity was on computer modding sites and I had literally hundreds of benchmarking screenshots hosted to prove what a kickass PC I had. I unlinked them and hope that solves the issue.
So, let's see...

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It's not nearly as orange as the pic makes it appear.
The cover has just been chillin in the junk room all week, paint curing.
If I get motivated I'll sand off the details, if not, Sigfrid can on Saturday.

I'm pretty sure this will not be the final treatment for the valve cover, I suspect that the paint really wanted the surface blasted to adhere well but I needed the cover in place and looking semi-decent so I could build around it.
Like everything else, we shall see.

I made the spacer for the waterpump pulley (moves it out .125") and hope we can now assemble the front of the engine.

And I'm now on version three of the throttle body setup.
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Once again, the paucity of hard info about this (apparently) popular mod has made my life difficult.
Since we could not buy the spacer we needed, I just looked at the pics and duplicated the part.
Which won't work because it leaves an open air passage on the manifold flange.
I guess our crude ECU couldn't deal with cold starts too well, so Nissan put a seventh "cold start" injector an inch or so behind the intake flange. The flange and the original throttle body have a special passage to feed air to the injector and the new spacer (as pictured on the website and as I made it) does not cover this passage.

I made a second spacer that dealt with that issue.

While fitting the first version I realized the throttle body was getting very close to the distributor (the pulley wheel was the problem), so we flipped it upside down.
Unfortunately, that created another issue.
The top of the manifold is littered with (now unused) threaded bungs, bolting a cable stop bracket on was really not an issue. Inverting the TB put the cable wheel on the outside bottom of the manifold and there's nothing there to bolt a bracket into.

Long story short, I made a second spacer from 1/4" aluminum that has an ear to serve as the throttle cable holder/stop and made another delrin spacer that was cut down to 1" thick, so the new unit is 1/4" shorter than the first (no distributor clearance issues) and has the cable handled.

Looking at it now, I'd like to make a fourth version.
But I won't because I doubt any of this will be used for long.

It's pretty well accepted that to really make this engine run you have to go standalone ECU and then a better intake manifold (we already have the exhaust).
That's way too much money to sink into this hulking, overweight motor.
It would be easier and cheaper to swap in a better powerplant, which is exactly what I'm guessing will happen next spring.
In fact, if a good deal were to appear, we'd probably do it now.

For whatever reason, the bodywork aspect of the project has really fallen behind and with winter fast approaching, I don't see the body getting done in time to get much seat time before snow sets in.
I'm thinking she's a garage queen for the nonce.

Fortunately, my main pleasure is building/assembly/modification- actually driving the car is less interesting.
When I built racebikes I never rode any of 'em beyond a shakedown to ensure they didn't fall apart. Given my skills, I figured that if I could ride it, it wasn't competitive.

We work again Saturday and I still have two more projects to complete, so hi-ho, hi-ho.
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Old Oct 24, 2013 | 07:16 PM
  #904  
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If you want to stick with NA I6 engines, the GM Atlas LL8 (Vortec 4200) engine is a pretty nice package - DOHC, aluminum block & head VVA on the exhaust, 270-290 hp, and mates to a manual trans offered in various Colorado/Canyon trucks. They're also pretty under-the-radar, and not a V8, so I've seen a number of them turn up on craigslist for reasonable prices. Engine control may be more difficult with the exhaust cam VVA, but not insurmountable.
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Old Oct 26, 2013 | 07:38 PM
  #905  
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From: sweden
yeah i deserved that i blame it on tiredness and frustration with my project hehe

i always get a wave of boyish excitement pass over me when you start talking about engine swaps. i know it would be cool whatever you chose and judging by the story so far, it seems like weight has been your biggest enemy. maybe it would be good with a transplant. you've definately got the skills to pull it off.

whats it like over there if you want to get a hold of a bmw engine? i have noticed quite alot of people using them for transplants here and they also seem to be able take a good kicking from a turbo without having to have forged internals (within limits of course).
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Old Oct 26, 2013 | 10:46 PM
  #906  
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Old Oct 27, 2013 | 02:51 PM
  #907  
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I like it!
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Old Oct 29, 2013 | 08:07 PM
  #908  
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From: Mile High
Well, finally.

Every project thread I've ever read (or written) invariably passes through long periods where not much seems to happen. Work continues unabated, effort expended, cash dispensed...and yet visually, nuttin.
Frustrating for the viewer, doubly so for the actor.
"Yeah, we know", we say to ourselves, "All the little stuff is just as important as the big things" but still, gimme some eye candy.

But first, a short trip in the Wayback Machine...
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From the first minute there were two things I knew had to change. Regardless of anything else the mechanical throttle linkage and the spark plug wiring had to be different.
The linkage is simply too complex and Mickey Mouse, it was crap 40 years ago and it's worn out crap now. Half the pedal travel went to taking up slack in the mechanism and the useful travel was jerky and imprecise.
Why Datsun didn't use a cable is a mystery but we sure as hell were going to.

The spark plug wires just look lazy.
Of course, given the astounding amount of widgetry strewn all over the engine, room was at a premium for the engineers but even so, the factory solution looks like the first idea before a long weekend..."Yup, go with it! See you all next Tuesday!".

This is what I came up with:
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Although there are still a few components missing (coil, FPR and return line mainly), the bay is essentially complete save for the wiring.
The tube on the drivers side of the valve cover will carry the engine harness.

I cannot express how happy I am to finally see this in the flesh after carrying the vision around for so long. It actually worked, how about that?

Looking forward now, what we see is the vast Death Valley that is the wiring.
Another couple weeks where I bust *** and have nothing to show for it.
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Old Oct 30, 2013 | 10:39 AM
  #909  
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Looks wonderful! Very nicely done. Your efforts are well worth the results.

One question - are you going with any type of heat shield for the intake and/or the EFI setup?
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Old Oct 30, 2013 | 10:55 AM
  #910  
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wow, great detail. the FC fuse box... who WOULDN'T want to use that???

Im curious what the spark plug wire "metal pipe" looks like underneath
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Old Oct 30, 2013 | 11:08 AM
  #911  
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omg, i'm glad you posted the before picture, its horrid. it reminds me of my mercedes, the Germans LOVE to use astoundingly complex throttle linkages, even into the 1990's. the Merc also has the same goofy fuel rail/injector nonsense too.
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Old Oct 30, 2013 | 11:29 AM
  #912  
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From: Mile High
Originally Posted by DeaconBlue
Looks wonderful! Very nicely done. Your efforts are well worth the results.

One question - are you going with any type of heat shield for the intake and/or the EFI setup?
Thank you.
We'll see about shielding...what may be required and where it's best utilized.

Even if we keep the engine it's unlikely the stock manifold will stay, right now, just getting her to run is the main focus.
We've made some risky, possibly rash, "upgrades" to an already unknown motor, so getting her to run is more of a challenge than normal. The distributor is from a 280ZX, the throttle body/TPS is from a 240SX and the AFM is from a RX-7- any one of which could be a showstopper.
I anticipate some diag work before we ever get to the point where heat will be an issue.

Two other considerations came into play as well:

My 240 Z had headers (not ceramic coated like the new car's) w/carbs and despite no shielding at all, never suffered heat soak issues.

The 280z has too many heat shields, it's hard to take them seriously, kinda like the boy who cried wolf. The 280 also has hood vents that the 240 lacked, so bay cooling should be better.

IIRC, most heatsoak problems came down to two things...the stacked intake/exhaust manifolding was a giant heatsink and the wonky fuel line routing, which runs the hose all over the manifold where it can marinate in heat and vaporize.
We've totally rerouted the fuel line, hopefully to prevent that problem.
The exhaust has been replaced with headers.

If, by some miracle the car actually starts and runs, I'll be happy to deal with any heat issues that arise.
Heat in this case, means "success".
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Old Oct 30, 2013 | 11:47 AM
  #913  
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Excellent work as usual, Clokker. You've set the bar pretty high, you'd better not slack on the next one!
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Old Oct 30, 2013 | 12:00 PM
  #914  
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From: Mile High
Originally Posted by scrapp
wow, great detail. the FC fuse box... who WOULDN'T want to use that???

Im curious what the spark plug wire "metal pipe" looks like underneath
All of the materials came from Ace Hardware Racing.
The tubing is 1 1/4" undersink plumbing ****, the rubber grommets were in electrical.
I made the splice for the two sections from the same delrin I used on the throttle body spacer.
I needed to drill 7/16" holes to fit the grommets, a regular drill bit just chewed up the thin wall tubing so I used brad point wood bits, which worked fine.
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I'm not happy with what happens after the assembly wraps around the front of the valvecover, working on a fix...

Originally Posted by j9fd3s
omg, i'm glad you posted the before picture, its horrid. it reminds me of my mercedes, the Germans LOVE to use astoundingly complex throttle linkages, even into the 1990's. the Merc also has the same goofy fuel rail/injector nonsense too.
"Horrid" is the word alright.
I knew pretty much right away that none of that crap was going to stay, primarily because I didn't want to figure out what it all was and what it supposedly did.
Way too much work.
Just trying to follow the fuel path was an exercise in Escher-esque futility.

Fortunately, because of its age, the Z only needs to pass a simple tailpipe sniff test...no visual, no rolling road.
I think with the new cat we'll be fine.
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Old Oct 30, 2013 | 12:20 PM
  #915  
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From: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Originally Posted by clokker
"Horrid" is the word alright.
I knew pretty much right away that none of that crap was going to stay, primarily because I didn't want to figure out what it all was and what it supposedly did.
Way too much work.
Just trying to follow the fuel path was an exercise in Escher-esque futility.

Fortunately, because of its age, the Z only needs to pass a simple tailpipe sniff test...no visual, no rolling road.
I think with the new cat we'll be fine.
lmao, rube goldberg called, he wants his car back!
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Old Oct 30, 2013 | 01:24 PM
  #916  
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From: Mile High
There are boxes of stuff he's more than welcome to.
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Old Oct 31, 2013 | 11:53 AM
  #917  
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From: sweden
wow! i bet that engine bay feels like cinderella right now! nice work clokker. i expected no less.
i especially like what you did with the ignition cables (considering thats what im super horny about right now hehe)
superclean!
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Old Oct 31, 2013 | 01:27 PM
  #918  
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From: Davie Fl.
I remember when I had a 1976 Z and I wish it looked as good as yours does. Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Oct 31, 2013 | 01:27 PM
  #919  
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Originally Posted by clokker
All of the materials came from Ace Hardware Racing.
The tubing is 1 1/4" undersink plumbing ****, the rubber grommets were in electrical.
I made the splice for the two sections from the same delrin I used on the throttle body spacer.
I needed to drill 7/16" holes to fit the grommets, a regular drill bit just chewed up the thin wall tubing so I used brad point wood bits, which worked fine.




I'm not happy with what happens after the assembly wraps around the front of the valvecover, working on a fix...


"Horrid" is the word alright.
I knew pretty much right away that none of that crap was going to stay, primarily because I didn't want to figure out what it all was and what it supposedly did.
Way too much work.
Just trying to follow the fuel path was an exercise in Escher-esque futility.

Fortunately, because of its age, the Z only needs to pass a simple tailpipe sniff test...no visual, no rolling road.
I think with the new cat we'll be fine.
The one thing I have always tried to avoid is running spark plugs wires through metal tubing - it can result in either induced parallel cross fire and/or wire insulator/jacket break down due to the high voltage trying to ground out through the wire to the tubing itself. It sure looks nice though.
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Old Oct 31, 2013 | 01:30 PM
  #920  
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From: Davie Fl.
I remember when I had a 1976 Z and I wish it looked as good as yours does.
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Old Oct 31, 2013 | 03:38 PM
  #921  
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Thats what I was curious it looked like. amazing attention to detail with the rubber grommets... I guess replacement means cutting/building..
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Old Oct 31, 2013 | 05:29 PM
  #922  
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From: Mile High
Originally Posted by DeaconBlue
The one thing I have always tried to avoid is running spark plugs wires through metal tubing - it can result in either induced parallel cross fire and/or wire insulator/jacket break down due to the high voltage trying to ground out through the wire to the tubing itself. It sure looks nice though.
Sometimes ignorance is bliss, I suppose.
I hadn't considered the more esoteric things that could go wrong.
If it's any solace, the tubes are isolated by the rubber lined clamps and there is no ground path to the block.

Originally Posted by bigzman
I remember when I had a 1976 Z and I wish it looked as good as yours does.
Mine wishes it ran.

Originally Posted by scrapp
Thats what I was curious it looked like. amazing attention to detail with the rubber grommets... I guess replacement means cutting/building..
Yes, replacing wires will be more complex with this setup, about an extra hour I'd guess.
A price I'm willing to pay since it doesn't need doing very often.

I've made a new end cap for the wire tube, the rubber gaitor (OK, it's actually a rad hose...) is gone.
This plug is drilled radially (looks like a revolver's cylinder) and will be clamped on the nearest front cover bolt.

The problem here is that the wires should go right through the upper radiator hose but obviously, cannot. I haven't thought of an elegant way to disguise this misalignment, so I'm not going to try.
It'll all be done (and photographed) on Sunday.

I've also been toying with steering wheels.
I discovered a while ago that the wheel from a ZX will fit the Z and even better, the OEM ZX wheel has a bolt on hub. I procured the hub.
The only suitable candidate from my collection is the Momo Miata wheel and it's ready to try.
This will move the wheel 2" closer to the driver and I have no idea how that will work out ergonomically.
More "We'll see" ****, sorry.
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Old Nov 1, 2013 | 08:25 AM
  #923  
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From: Mile High
Originally Posted by clokker
The problem here is that the wires should go right through the upper radiator hose but obviously, cannot. I haven't thought of an elegant way to disguise this misalignment, so I'm not going to try.
I lied, sorry.
I am going to try.

Because the car is not physically present, I spend lots of time staring at the pics, trying to make sense of the assembly.
It finally occurred to me that I'd made a crucial "modders error" in that I was only approaching the problem from one angle...that being the fixed position of the rad hose.

Instead of trying to weasel the spark wires either over or under this hose, what if I ran the wires exactly how they should be and moved the hose?
How much would the hose have to move to make me happy?
If I move the hose, what other benefits might I gain?

Sunday I'll explore the two main parameters surrounding this idea.
First, how much room do I have to play with and second, how complex would this mod be?
I already have a concept in mind, just need to see how feasible it is...
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Old Nov 4, 2013 | 09:59 AM
  #924  
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Well, yesterday Sigfrid and I did a lot of "exploring concept feasibility" and general fiddlefucking with details.
It was spectacularly successful, which is indicated in the pics...you can't tell we did anything:
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The whole plug wire/rad hose interference issue turned out to be a tempest in a teapot, a few minor tweaks and adjustments solved the problem with no extraordinary efforts required. The new part I made actually worked very well (unfortunately already removed in the pics) but needs some minor machining to be perfect.
Next time you see it, the ignition wire setup will be complete.

On the intake side is where the most progress occurred.
We reevaluated the original fuel line/rail arrangement and realized that it could be greatly simplified/prettified with a different approach altogether. It was made so and the fuel system is completely intact in the pic.
In fact, the entire intake is done.
The throttle cable was terminated and we have a beautifully operating gas pedal.

The engine harness "structure" (OK, the chrome plumbing tube) was finalized.
I need to make an end fitting for the tube but the rest is in place. Shown for the first time is the corrugated tube (shop vac hose in real life) that connects the engine tube through the firewall.
This will carry the entire engine harness and is detachable from the main harness at one connector.
The new harness will not only be significantly pruned down from stock but this new routing will also shorten the harness by about 4' or so.
Win-win.

With the exception of the heater core, the cooling system is intact.

We changed the oil and filter (both were included in the original sale...I'd prefer a Wix filter but the Fram will do for the initial startup).

Although we spent most of the day in the engine bay, the greatest progress was made in the cabin.
We temporarily fit the drivers seat and tried the newly modified Miata wheel, checking on the ergonomics.
It works quite well.

Even better, on a whim I tried spacing the steering column down 3/4" and doing so gained the clearance I needed to fit the switchgear I wanted to use.
This is most excellent news.

Indicative of how little time I've spent in the interior, while evaluating the arrangement of the steering wheel to the shifter I only now realized this 5-speed (which is NOT original to the car, our VIN shows a 4-speed was fitted at the factory) has already been fitted but, like everything else so far, was only finger tight.
Properly snugged up, the car seems to shift perfectly.
It's got a suitably heavy NISMO **** already (the same as in my FC and the **** I'd have specced if we bought a new one...), so all I'll need to do is tweak the shape/height of the lever and we'll be good.

Sigfrid is on the third "apply Bondo and then sand it all away" step of his marker light delete, it's coming right along.
We also got the new tail light seals, so stuff is actually happening to the body.

I figure I have about a weeks worth of detailing in the bay (in real time, not "hands on" time) and then it's on to the wiring.

The real fun.
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Old Nov 4, 2013 | 11:33 AM
  #925  
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I love how tidy everything is in the bay. You guys are doing some seriously clean work here.
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