wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

O-rings are a great idea! Make sure you get something that you can use with gasoline and alcohol.

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

viton

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

The other issue with running O'rings is that you have to line up the ports perfect. If not you will have a vacuum leak.
Thanks Robert

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

Ok guys,
Im making 5 more . Lmk
Thanks Robert

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

Yes I DID fit the Power steering on with the Greddy Elbow,BUT it is Modified.
I lowered the Power steering pump about 4 inches.I used the Same mounting holes and studs on the engine.I used the same PS line though,no cutting.
I had to cut the bracket and make new Holes.It was Done By EYE so I am not sure How good it is.Only time will tell,So far so good.
Bump so Robert can sell Some spacers!

GeTCrAzYKiD

Still have any of these? What ever happened here?

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

I have plenty of them. $160 shipped
Thanks Robert

initial D is REAL!

sorry fc3s91, I got a DUI. I'm loosing hope in my project.When I say project, I mean my whole car. I still have mine too. dreams crushed

wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

Did anyone have clearance issues between a FD alternator power cable stud and the throttle body linkage? It did clear... but a bit to close for comfort.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Subscribed.

I read through too many pages and my head is spinning. I have decided that I am doing thins to my FB with a S4 TII swap and a BNR stage 4. I feel like my turbo is too big to breathe correctly. For reading, here is what I understand I need:

FD UIM and Throttle body. Purchased on ebay. I'm not sure if I should be using the S4 TPS or the S6. I am runing a Microtech Standalone.

S5 lower intake. I sent out a couple PM's to people selling them on this forum. and hopfully will have one soon.

Adaper from FC3S91 that he will sell me as soon as he makes some more.

Greddy elbow to connect to my FMIC which I am still looking for a cheap one on this forum.

So, I under stand I will need to do some dremeling, and modify my UIM a little. No biggie. I will also have to modify the oil fill neck to make it fit.

Anything else I'm missing? Can I reuse the S4 block-off plates on the S5 lower? I currently have a three quarter inch spacer so that my turbo clears the manifold. Are the clearances the same on the S5?

Current setup:

The Griffin

What a useless adaptor, The whole point of an adaptor is so you don't change the x-sectional size of the port to hog it out to match.You actually sell this for $160 bones and people buy it? BTW I wouldn't call that minor porting.....lol

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I made 386rwhp on T04S 60-1 turbo (same as BNR stage 4 but with bigger housings) on s4 intake manifolds back in 2008.

Use the s6 TPS and wire the full range signal to the microtech

Here's why I don't agree with this mod on an s4 engine. The s5 lower intake is not designed for s4 side housings. I know because during my build last year I had s4 irons & manifolds as well as s5 irons & s5 manifolds and I made many comparisons between the two. I was originally going to just put s5 irons into my s4 motor because of the thicker casting, but then I noticed the difference in the porting: the s5 runner is bigger in almost every area .

The s5 LIM has larger ports and larger runners that are not designed for the s4 side housings. The runner portion of the s5 side housings (the part that leads into the bowl) is larger. Compare the two gaskets and it will be obvious. You will have a "step" as the larger s5 LIM bolts to the smaller s4 intake ports. That's going to cause problems. You really should port match. But even if you port match, what's the point when the rest of the s4 side housings are smaller? You are still choking down at the very end of the intake tract. If you put an s6 UIM/TB to an s5 LIM and s4 side housings, what's the point? You are changing runner diameter each time. You are using parts that aren't designed to work together. It's a placebo effect mod. I ended up running s5 manifolds and s5 irons, and I just slightly smoothed all the runner areas with 40 grit sandpaper rolls on my die grinder.

The reason why the s6 manifold sometimes picks up more midrange power is because it has a smaller plenum and longer runners. Longer runners = better for low to middle range, smaller plenum = better for low to mid range. Shorter runners = better for top end, larger plenum = better for top end. Those are the basic rules of thumb with any intake manifold design.

your intake system is still going from "big" (s6) to "medium" (s5) to "small" (s4) instead of one smooth intake path like you would get from using manifolds (and TB) and irons from the same series car. That's the crux of my argument. You are copying and pasting parts from 3 different engines, instead of using a system that is engineered to work together.

I'm not sure, but it looks like you already have an FC Greddy elbow... you know it's the same size as the FD factory elbow inlet? 70mm or 2.75" . I know that because I have a Greddy 3 row FMIC with elbow and my garage mate has a Greddy FMIC on his FD mated to the stock FD elbow.

I just don't see any point in you changing your setup right now, not for the work and money involved. The s6 UIM is not designed for an s4 engine, and it's not designed for an s5 LIM. And the s4 manifolds won't hold you back... the stock exhaust housing on the BNR might though. I'm giving you all this advice from personal experience, not from repeating stuff I read on the internet.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

^^^
Great advice and I did not know the FC Greddy elbow would fit on the FD throttle body. That just saved me about $100.

My engine has an extremly large street port so it may actually benefit even it there aren't the smoothest transitions. The FD parts cost me $100 shipped. People are selling the FC LIM for $10-$20 and I am looking for a used adapter. In the end, without the elbow, the entire setup is about $300. All of my tuning is done on the dyno by a professional (KDR Rotary). If there are no gains, then I just spent $300. If there is a 15hp gain and a 20lb torque, then I spent $15 per lb. I willing to live with that.

Part of owning a tuner/race car is trying different stuff, always having a project, and occasionally failing. This engine is new, but eventually I will do a rebuild and it will probably be an S5 or S6 (even though my current engine is a S4/S6 hybrid). My cold side is a Garret 60-1 that was attached to the turbo when I bought it, so it is actually slightly larger than the regular BNR stage 4. Brian at BNR rebuilt and ported it for me. I have to use a spacer to clear the manifold.

initial D is REAL!

Oh cool, the fc greddy throttle elbow fits the fd throttle?!! Hmmmmmm. Now I feel like keeping mine

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I didn't mean to say that the FC Greddy elbow would fit an FD TB, because it doesn't. I was just pointing out that when you use an FC Greddy elbow you happen to be enlarging to the same size as the FD stock elbow. You might as well bolt up a Cosmo 13B-RE LIM to an FD 13B-REW motor.

What are you going to do about the fact that all your intake air is going to hit a wall when it meets your s4 block?

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

So, the FC elbow does not work. I do not understand why you brought it up. No one is doing this swap to increase the size of the elbow. I really do not see your point.

I am not arguing for or against the swap. As another to-do project, I'm trying it and will try to match the ports as best I can. If I do not see power gains, then I swap it back or put in a S5 engine. This is part of the fun of these cars.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

On his s4 intake manifolds he's already got the higher flow of an upgraded elbow. That is what I was trying to say--it was just an aside and is not important, but wishful thinking has made people jump on that one comment.

Most of the flow benefit from the larger FD UIM runners are negated by s4 side housings which choke that flow. The mid range benefit comes from the smaller FD plenum and longer runners. Smaller plenums hurt top end. It's not as simple as "the FD intake manifold is better than the FC intake manifold." They were designed for two different engines. The s4 intake manifold does not put some kind of ceiling on your horsepower capability as I have learned first hand. Now if it was "I'm going to swap an s4 engine for an s6 REW because of the different manifold, TB, and side housings" well that would actually make sense, even if he chose to keep 8.5:1 rotors.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Ok, I get what you are saying now. Yes that is my engine bay picture I took last weekend. I currently have right below 300 horses at the rear wheels at 15 psi. I know I may be able to gain some more fine tuning it, but I am the kind of persone that is always messing with my car and trying new stuff. I currently have new race seats and roll bar on order as well as the Respeed manual rack and pinion. All of these items have about a 4 week lead time, so I'm occupying my time trying stuff like this.

I'm under the impression that this will probably not give me more top end, but maybe help my turbo spool faster and add some torque. Either way, I know I have spent $300 on dumber things.

My 2200lb FB really doesn't need any more power, but I'm always going to be playing with it anyway.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

One more thing, does the FD oil filler tube fit on the FC block? That would eliminate the need to modify the filler.

Also, are the S4 and S5 secondary fuel rails the same?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I've never tried to actually bolt an FD one on, but just looking at it I would say there's a good chance it will fit. the FC one is angled forward to fit the TMIC, but the FD one goes straight up as you know.

unlike the s4, the s5 turbo rails are not threaded on the end which makes custom fuel lines harder

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Yeah, if I remember correctly, my FD just went up. So, from what you are saying, the S4 fuel rail is a different length? If so, I'll probably just go with a custom setup as it is feeding 1600cc injectors anyway.

eage8

iTrader: (9)

you can get 1680cc injectors that fit the stock fuel rail without modification from injector.com

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

What? Um read the statement. No one is looking for 1600cc injectors. The question posed was if the S4 and S5 fuel rails are different for the secondaries. I already have 1600cc on my S4 fuel rail and was wondering if I was to use an S5 LIM, if I would need an S5 length fuel rail.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Alright, I am going to try this without an adapter. Here is what I have and what I spent including shipping:

$100 FD throttle body and UIM with all sensors
$12 FD oil filler tube
$30 S5 TII LIM with block-off plates
$75 FD Greddy Elbow (still looking for this one)
---------------
$217 so far

I am going to attempt to do this without an adapter which will make my manifold even higher under my narrow FB hood. Since the adapted needs to be adapted to work correctly I am going to attempt to adapt the manifold themselves. If I ruin them, then I am out $217 or the price of taking my girlfriend out for a nice dinner.

I am going to try this idea, so if you have a better one, please let me know:

1). Finger paint on a piece of cardboard which can then be cut out and used like the adapter in the above pictures for cutting into the LIM.
2). Smooth out with playdough. When I have smoothed them out close enough, Smash playdough between the two manifolds and see how off it is. Continue to grind and smooth until the playdough aligns correctly.

If the metal gets too thin, reinforce it with some aluminum welding.

Any one with a better idea?

joeylyrech

iTrader: (11)

Here is what i did on my one FC.
Ported matched the lower FC and upper FD manifold,i added some aluminum and then ported them in order 2 get a perfect fit.You need to grind a little bit of material of the FD upper manifold for the turbo2 fuel rail 2 clear(front top corner area)
You need 2 remove the whole FC oil filler assembly(part that goes in the center iron 2)and replaced with the complete FD assembly,again not just the top part you need to replace the 2 pieces)or it wont clear.
You can wire the FD air intake sensor and tps 2 work if you have a stock ecu or if you have a standalone like me is easier.
Yes you can use the S4 fuel rail(better than S5)on the S5 lower just need to add some washer on the bolt holes in order for the injectors to sit tight.
Any more questions ask me,i done it a couple of times.