I want a standalone for the 20b and I want to see what knowledge you guys can shed on my situation. I will be running an hx40 turbo, bigger injectors, stock port, fmic, and I have both stock coils and ls1 coils. I've been thinking microtech, but I want to see what yall have to say! I want 450-600 hp and have a budget of about 1500.

 

who is going to tune it and how much of your budget is going towards paying for tuning? it is a pretty important factor to consider.

 

Personally, I'd go with a Haltech since it is very well supported, can run nearly any ignition setup you can dream up and wiring wouldn't be too difficult. Plus, most good shops are familiar with it. And best of all, USB connectivity and a clean, polished interface make it a very attractive package to work with.

Don't know how one would use the stock 20B coils, but the LS1 ones would be much simpler to work with. And later on you can upgrade to D585 Yukon Coils without changing any wiring too.

One bit of advice though: you're probably better off building your own harness. The Flying Lead Harness they include has a bunch of extra 'garbage' in it that you won't use and can't extract without chopping it to bits. I counted at least 6 extra 5v+, a couple 12v+ and several ground wires not used for anything at all on my build (20B-REW, VMIC, stock twins using GM solenoids). Pretty sure if you have a 20b that you understand the issue here.

Though it's not a bad part in materials and workmanship (they did a really good job building it), the Flying Lead harness is a universal part, in that it is universally wrong for all applications (had to quote Aaron Cake here lol) and would require modification for any application. Chances are that you could come up with a better harness design for your car than trying to cobble one together from the FLH. It all comes down to how you plan the build from the start...

 

I've used the AEM PNP box for the FD. was pretty simple and its stomps a mudhole in the haltech and microtech boxes. far for flexible in that regard.

further, you can use the stock 20B harness, add a few extra plugs (injectors) and go on about your day. on the other hand, i used two new'ish fd harnesses to make one single 3rotor harness.

 

I run the Microtech LT-16, I used the stock 20B engine harness mated to the FD engine harness for trans and dash wiring. Then just made a patch harness to mate the LT-16 to the engine harness. I did this so that I could easily swap out the ECU for a different brand if I wanted to. However the LT-16 has performed very well.

http://www.banzai-racing.com/20B/Par...er_harness.jpg

 

wow thanks to everyone. I have a couple of people i can go to for tuning that are well supported in rotary knowledgge. I am intrigued by the haltech and aem setups. I know both are well known good systems but i havent heard too much more than that on the aem. any more info on it? Price?

 

Kilo Racing in Florida has a couple successful 20b builds under it's belt running Microtech.
Just throwing it out there.

 

Does the LT-16 allow you to save maps? I'm not too knowledgeable on Microtechs but I know that has been a long running issue. Not being able to save maps is a big disadvantage.

I have never wired one up on a 20B but I do like the AEM EMS on a 2 rotor. If you had the FD EMS and bought a patch/extension harness like the one Banzai sells, It would be easy to make whatever connections you desire.

In terms of features, the EMS is certainly equal to a Haltech Platinum Sport.

 

anyone know anything about Wolf?

 

I had one (3 actually) about 4 years ago. What was completely 'suck' about them was having to send them back to Oz for ecu-firmware updates (sounds like another ecu mfgr).

I recall there being a reason we didn't run the universal standalone on my 1st 20b but the biggest deal was no support (phone/email/etc) compared to something local.

The PNP box was pretty cool, it was simple to setup and get going - software was better than most.

 

I dont think they allow saving maps to date.
I sold an LT-16X that came with a 3rotor car I bought and it was sooo awful dealing with.
The hand controller was a joke in that you needed very specific knowledge to know what the abbreviations on the lcd-display meant. Further, the software is just lacking.

I've had many, many ecu's. from Motec, Pi/Pectel down to an AEM.
I simply HATE the PFC and Microtech. They remind me of the E6K. Limited and spreading like aids. :-)


Honestly, man, give it some thought - what do you need the ecu to do?
Give the guys at ApexSpeedTech a call, speak with Alex or Neel.
They'll set you straight.

These guys dont make blanket statements like "uh, use XYZ because support" or something short lined and misleading. I just sold them a used ecu which retailed over $4k ..they were very helpful and can deal with finding you a box to suite your needs and even help you figure out your needs.

Just take your questions to the pros - don't bother with us on the forum. We dont have a lot of experience to pull from. not many pros lurk around here.

Also, you can poll the guys over at http://www.efi101.com
get a book or two on tuning - basic concepts, etc etc. You just mind become a bit snobbish (like myself) once you get some education under your belt.

...further, along the lines of the Wolf ECU - it's *very* accurate with the reluctor(ignition) wheel.
It doesn't support a wide range of patterns like an SQ6m would but its very accurate (unlike the PowerFC which has a floating ignition problem).

again, go ask the pro's. head over to efi101 and poll those guys.

 

Haltech Sport 2000

 

Thats better :-)
I wont delete this post.

 

The LT -16, 12 10 all allow the user to save maps to the dongle or crappy hand controller. However it is maxed out at 4 and they cannot not be edited or viewed just reloaded. I agree that the Microtech has a lot of shortcomings, but when tuned properly it does run the car well.

I did consider the PNP AEM and I was working with one of the techs at AEM, but did not like how the ignition needed to be set up. The main problem was the 5 ignition outputs, one of the injector outputs needed to be reconfigured as an ignition. The issue with this was that it could only be used as a rising edge configuration. This was going to require the purchase of 2 M&W ignition boxes, as the tech specifically said NOT to use their ignition amp since it was so failure prone. They also would not be able to provide any support as the 20B was not a supported engine.

One of the emails from Scott @ AEM:

"Hi Chris, thanks for the email.

I’m aware of at least two people using the 30-1800 EMS with a 20B setup, one of these people is Erik Strelnieks (username “streldoc” on rx7club and the aempower forums). I believe he uses an M&W ignition box, from what I gather that box will work with a rising or falling edge ignition trigger signal. The fuel injector output, when configured as an ignition channel, will send a rising edge trigger: the EMS fuel injector driver grounds the coil to charge it and fires when the signal goes high again (same as a direct fire ignition signal).

I’m not aware of anyone who has used the 30-1900 Universal box to run a 20B. The 30-1902 uses four pairs of wasted spark outputs (four unique ignition signals, each signal is sent out to two pins), you would still need to use the Fuel #10 as the sixth coil signal but I’m not sure if the peak-and-hold injector outputs would play nicely with most ignition boxes.

I don’t have any base maps, the firing order would depend on how the 6 coil outputs are wired, I can help with this if you’d like. I’d need to know the number of teeth on your trigger wheel (the stock FD trigger wheel uses 12 teeth per revolution, I’ve heard the 20B uses something different). Depending on your project’s time frame, we have a new EMS that will be available before the end of the year, it supports up to 8 sequential ignition channels and will be much simpler to configure for use with a 20B setup.

Officially the 20B is an unsupported application for now (the fuel injector 10 as a coil driver thing is a pain) and we can’t spend too many resources to help people get it working, but I’m personally a RX-7 fan so let me know if you have any other questions"

The Haltech was never a consideration , since I have seen an endless stream of blown engines shipped to us as a result of trigger issues.

 

I'm curious if there is now an AEM EMS series 2 box (or whatever model) that could easily be configured for a 20B.

I am also curious whether we have a handle on how many trigger issues the Haltech Platinum Sport boxes are having compared to the old ones. The Haltech certainly has a reputation for not being very forgiving with the crank trigger signal and signal wires, electrical noise, etc.

 

The new reluctor adapters found in the platinum series of Haltech boxes make the issues of some of the earlier units irrelevant. You really should try the new units. Haltech ecu's are so flexible in their ability to run engines with about any sensors/configuration that their install puts them past the ability of most weekend mechanics. Its one of the ecu's greatest assets but also a weakness for those that try and install without the abilities necessary.

 

The Platinum Sport software is certainly a hell of a lot nicer than the Series 1 AEM EMS software...

 

Yes it can. I am currently running a series 2 #30-6051 for a honda v6, just need to make or adapt your harness

 

Any special settings you needed in the EMS? How did you have the ignition set up?

 

You can use any type of CDI or Ignighters. The outputs for the ign channels can be set for rising or falling triggers. The series 2 has 8 ign outputs vs. 5 like series 1, so no goofy hacks or band-aids.
I have the series 2 wired directly to a M&W Pro16 firing M&W CDI coils.

I would use whatever you are confortable with. I have a lot of time with the AEM and comfortable with them.

 

Does the series 2 AEM have a rotary trailing map, I can seem find it. ( It was under advanced ignition in AEM Pro, but I can't find it in AEM Tuner?

 

I am currently running lt12s with my street 20b and love it. had a lt8 with my 13b and love it too. had a haltech and i really hated it. The fastest rotary in the world is running microtech 6.51 @ 217 mph, and most of the fastest rotaries also run microtech. It a very good computer and very affordable. You just need a great tuner that can do its magic with it. Mine car was tuned by Gaby Skern from PR. i got 610hp 16psi in pump gas and 831hp and the tires were spinning so maybe more. So i will highly recommend microtech!

 

Now that we've got that figured out, what system can run a 4 rotor?

 

use the Add 3d map display : Ignition difference
I just added it to my ingition tab

 

MT LT16, Haltech Sport 2000, Motec M84, 800 and 880, Pectel. ViPec V88 maybe?