Ouch, that's a pricey failure indeed.

I ran that OS box on my VR FD on the street and track for a short time before stuffing the car into a wall at NJMP Lightning and tweaking the frame.

Trans has since been sold to Mr. Fritz Flynn, who won't be running crazy power through it.

 

Quick question about your 20b build. Did you end up swapping out the oem fuel hardlines from the tank for -8 feed and -6 returns and I have seen a few people do and recommend? Debating If I need to do mine? Will run less power than you.
Cheers
Lee

 

Yes,

-8 Feed / -6 return

I don't think it was necessary for my power level, despite what everyone says. It all comes down to your fuel pump. If you pump can handle the backpressure of the hardlines, then it won't matter at all. I see it kinda like this, if you were to put a walbro pump on factory feed, it may see 55psi at the tank, and then 43psi at the regulator, vs using a -8 feed it may only see 50psi at the tank, and 43 at the regulator (after setting it). So the pump is just working harder to overcome the restriction, but these things push some damn fuel! All these guys claiming they need 3x walbro's and these fancy-pants surge tanks LOL. No issues making 720rwhp on ONE walbro and methanol injection (1000cc)

The trick is simply keeping the feed/return in as close to sizing as possible. I ran the -8 feed w/ the factory hardline return and that caused turbulence/overpressurized return until I upgraded to -6 return.

For power levels under 600rwhp, I would most definitely just do OEM hardlines or -6 feed / -6 return. Using something like twin walbro 400's is so much fuel, that it doesn't matter the pressure drop, the pumps can still get the fuel to the motor for 500-600rwhp

Its all up to you. Just keep the feed/return close in size. Really the AN fittings/lines for me is more about ease, reliability and not needing that ugly rubber hose

 

Thanks for the informative reply..I was wondering about a -6 feed and return. It is still a good increase on the oem lines. -8 is like a garden hose by comparison! Keeps it a bit neater. I have a Walbro 455lph pump and am looking for around 600bhp flywheel so sounds like it shouldn't be an issue. But might do it for peace of mind and better fittings on the fuel line as you say. Did you run lines to a junction up front of direct to the rail and regulator? Anyway I started my own thread so maybe reply there so I don't dump on yours!
Cheers
Lee

 

No worries man!

Yes that sounds like a plan. I don't see -8 being necessary, and yes -6/-6 will work perfectly. Keep in mind it does get a bit pricey with quality fittings / lines. But its hell of a lot better then worm gear clamps. I liked using the nylon braided hose, not quite as tough as SS, but certainly easier to work with, also won't stab your brains out w/ frayed edges.

Vibrant hose / fittings did fine for me. In fact, vibrant was easier to work with than a set of fragola's I had on hand. Many will say vibrant is cheap quality, but hey it worked out perfectly.

My setup was overkill; -8 feed, into a y-block at the engine, then from the y-block it branches off to -6 for each fuel rail, then -6 out of each rail into each side of the regulator, then -6 out of the bottom of the reg. and back to the tank.

I would definitely say that twin feeds/returns is overkill. You could easily just run directly into one rail, out of that rail into the other, and then return back into the regulator using only 1 port, blocking the other. You shouldn't have many issues as you'll have many options/flexability with various fittings on the smaller -6

These days, I"m aiming at simplicity first, even if it sacrifices just a tad bit of performance gains.

Thanks!

 

Thanks for advice again. Did you keep the fuel tank breather line in place and if so how did you connect it up? Not sure if I can connect it up the the UIM with 13b connections if it is needed? Do you know if there is a fitting I can use on the end of the hard lines out of the fuel hatch that I connect the -6 hoses too. I.e some kind of AN fitting to be used with metal pipes instead of rubber ones?
Cheers
Lee

 

Lee,

I can't say if I'd recommend doing what I did, but I had no issues just leaving the breather line venting to atmosphere at the engine bay. I just removed the rubber hose coming off the hardline and left hardline vented. Little fuel smell here / there but it wasn't suppose to be a daily driver

When you say fuel hatch, I assume you're talking about the fuel pump hanger cover on the tank. Those are equivalent to -5 fittings, the factory metal barbs. In all actuality, if you're going to use -6 line, its not much of a difference in size, you could get away with pushing the -6 line over the metal barb and clamping it down with a fuel line compression clamp and/or worm gear, maybe use two of them to be safe. Otherwise if you want to do it "right", you need to drill out the fittings and install your own bulkheads and then use the AN fittings/hose ends.

 

Yes I did mean fuel pump hanger cover. I have had it out today and looked over the hoses and fittings I have already and what I need to do. A bit confused now. I have and FPR and secondary rail all plumbed with what I am pretty sure are -6 fittings. Asides from the fact they measure up right some have -06 on them! So I thought this meant they take a 3/8 hose? I have some 5/16 plain rubber fuel hose and this looks like a spot on fit. I cannot see the next size up fitting? Have I misread something? I didn't. Think you could even get a -5 fitting? I can see this isn't going to be a 5 min job!
Did you do away with an inline filter and rely on the pump inlet filter sock? One of the worst bits about swapping out the old lines must be getting out the oem filter above the diff. I seem to remember you have to drop the diff. I changed it earlier in the year when I had to put a new tank in! Shame I didn't know about running new lines then! Typical!

 

Has anyone tires a Tilton Flow Control Valve? From what I was told, structurally, there is nothing that can be done to make third gear not come out of place from power shifting. This has nothing to do with the material of the gear itself. Anything to re-leave stress hitting 3rd hard is going to prolong its life. Using a harsh heavy duty single disc clutch, like the ACT HD, looks to dis-log third easily even at lower TQ numbers. The flow control valve may really help. I'm about to try one in my new clutch setup.

 

-5 = 5/16ths (STOCK LINES)
-6 = 3/8ths or **6/16ths**

I have flaired the stock metal fuel line and put a short piece of -6 metal tubing over it and flared that in order to put a -6 fitting on it.





its crazy that 1/16th of an inch made Monsterbox's issues go away, but its 1/16th of an inch times the entire rail length i guess.

 

Thank you for that reply.. That was the fitting I saw on another post somewhere and was looking for as an option. Would need to borrow a flaring tool tough. I was thinking about just using a rubber pipe and clamp at the fuel hanger end.
What I have found looking at hoses and so on is metal hose is sized differently to the rubber hose? It seems -6 fittings are sized for 5/16th rubber hose to go in from what from can see? Does that make sense?
Thanks
Lee

 

Just a thought.. I have been pricing up all the hose and bits. Is there a physical need to run a braided hose from front to back or will a plain rubber fuel hose be just fine? The cost is obviously drastically different and you won't see it as it is all under cover or under the car!
Thoughts?
On a side note I don't suppose you have a spare aftermarket 20B secondary fuel rail you fancy shipping to the UK!?

Cheers
Lee

 

There are considerable differences between a rubber fuel hose and a rubber fuel injection hose. I would opt not to run this setup though underneath the car. A quality braided fuel hose with proper JIC fittings would suit best out in the open. That or a hard aluminum line.

 

That my friend is a bad idea.

Braided at a minimum.

 

Point taken.. Cheers.

 

Its just a combination of a lot of things. How much wear is on the trans originally and how hard the car is driver. Fd Boxes are actually pretty sturdy for the most part. And you can run big power on them... But traction is a huge deal with them as well. You can run say 700 WHP through a OE trans... run it on the dyno and probably be good if the trans was in solid shape before hand. If you start power shifting... that would be an issue. I did 2 FD transmissions this past year. My car makes under 480whp/400ftlbs. I run a 245 in the rear at 27PSI baseline with relatively soft spring rates. 8K rear. I Power Shifted at 2 events......and Blew a trans each time. I'm currently running a JDM unit...that is "Supposedly' supposed to have stronger synchros... Don't know if it's true or not. But I've also learned to Slip the clutch 95% of the time I'm shifting/clutch-kicking in order to give the trans a break. The harder you shift the quicker the tans will break. I've broken both 2nd and 3rd gear. You can run a 20B with an FD trans and baby it... Roll into everything.. Shift/feather..and you'll be good man. It's when you start dropping the clutch.. Really Launching the car... that you'll break things. The OS gear set may be perfect for a lower powered track car...but for the cost... I'd go with a different trans entirely. I really like the CD009 Nissan transmissions.. ANd A vendor on here has been developing an adapter kit for the 13B as well..... If not.. Colins adapters now sells one too. It's a much smoother trans than the T56 and holds big power without issue. Just depends on how hard you'll be driving the car.

 

That's a lot of power for such a skinny tire Aaron.... can't you move up to like a 13 inch rear so you can stretch a 275 on there?

 

Haha Ive ran 255's.... but @40 psi hot... 13" is suicide mang! Low tire pressures and wider widths = blown gear box's.

 

Hell yes

I'm inspired to go pick up 3 or 4 stock trans. Get a stock pile of them. And go on a carnage adventure

 

Monsterbox,
Once you ran your new lines did you put a separate inline filter in or rely on the filter sock on the pump inlet doing it's job?

Thanks
Lee

 

8an in/out filter on feed line at engine bay before rails

 

Thanks for that.. I am getting tight for space up front so I might fit one up back somewhere. Engine bay makes it easy to access and service though! Not that I am every likely to need to swap one out for service unless I get an issue! Really appreciate the advise by the way.

 

That's my plan! For ~$250 each you can't beat it and once you've swapped it out once it isn't that big of a deal to do especially compared to grenading a REAL expensive transmission.

 

that's going to get old real fast man i'm telling you put a t56 in it and call it a day

 

if you can grenade expensive boxes then there's no hope for stock. I just can't see why building a epic setup then have to Nana throttle because driveline to fragile. That's my opinion. hence why I ordered a liberty faceplated tko600. I won't be driving car every day but when I do go for a drive you can bet it's being beaten on every chance I can.