howard coleman's FD Chassis/Setup
09-15-09, 10:44 AM
#604
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Update numero dos:
Installed the front coilovers last night and they have plenty of room for adjustment to achive ride heights from on the ground to around 26" with the 8kg springs. Quick test drive confirms what Howard mentions earlier. The Tein's have great adjustability. I went out with shocks set at 8 clicks and the ride was a little choppy on the bumpy roads around my house. Feels like a good starting point for a track setup. Set them 4 clicks softer and the ride is better than the stock R2 setup. So far I'm pleased with the outcome other than having to add spacers to the rear. The track will be the real test though. Come on Oct 3!
Installed the front coilovers last night and they have plenty of room for adjustment to achive ride heights from on the ground to around 26" with the 8kg springs. Quick test drive confirms what Howard mentions earlier. The Tein's have great adjustability. I went out with shocks set at 8 clicks and the ride was a little choppy on the bumpy roads around my house. Feels like a good starting point for a track setup. Set them 4 clicks softer and the ride is better than the stock R2 setup. So far I'm pleased with the outcome other than having to add spacers to the rear. The track will be the real test though. Come on Oct 3!
09-17-09, 10:01 PM
#608
I run Eibach's front and rear. I'm at ~25.25 up front and around 25.5" in the rear (ride height) measured with driver weight in the car and half a tank of gas. Measuring ride height w/o the driver isn't the most effective since the driver's rear will droop about 1/4" +/- depending on how much you weigh. The front driver side will droop about 1/16 to 1/8 depending on your weight.
IIRC, My car corner balances to 50/50 with 1% wedge. I need to find the printout and confirm...
Running at 24.5" rear ride height seems a bit too low and you may run out of compression which will lead to that corner going full solid and rather loose.
I run Eibach sways front and rear. Rear is adjustable. Makes a nice difference and allows me another option to adjust how neutral I want the car.
IIRC, My car corner balances to 50/50 with 1% wedge. I need to find the printout and confirm...
Running at 24.5" rear ride height seems a bit too low and you may run out of compression which will lead to that corner going full solid and rather loose.
I run Eibach sways front and rear. Rear is adjustable. Makes a nice difference and allows me another option to adjust how neutral I want the car.
09-18-09, 12:49 AM
#609
Never knew eibach had swaybars. They are 19mm in the rear vs. 20mm for tanabe. And the front for eibach is 32 vs. 30 tanabe.
I think eibachs will better suite my car with its relatively soft tein S-tech springs. 440f -328r.
And yes, I am going to raise my rear up a half inch to make it even. 25inches front and 25inches back.
I think eibachs will better suite my car with its relatively soft tein S-tech springs. 440f -328r.
And yes, I am going to raise my rear up a half inch to make it even. 25inches front and 25inches back.
09-18-09, 09:47 AM
#610
I don't think Eibach sway bars are still available.
440# front / 328# rear springs are not relatively soft. If anything, they are relatively stiff compared to many other stock style springs. RSR Race Springs are somewhere in that ball park.
440# front / 328# rear springs are not relatively soft. If anything, they are relatively stiff compared to many other stock style springs. RSR Race Springs are somewhere in that ball park.
09-18-09, 10:21 AM
#611
I have them, but have not put the car on the track since installing them. I had issues with the threads on the front bar. I needed to re-thread the starter threads to get them to bolt up. I sent messages with another forum member who had issues with the paint on the threads (and needing to strip the paint off to get the stock bolt to thread on).
09-18-09, 01:11 PM
#612
I have them, but have not put the car on the track since installing them. I had issues with the threads on the front bar. I needed to re-thread the starter threads to get them to bolt up. I sent messages with another forum member who had issues with the paint on the threads (and needing to strip the paint off to get the stock bolt to thread on).
Also, even though 440-328 is about as stiff are you get with just replacement springs, its relatively soft for any TRACK setup considering that there are some ppl with 12k-16k spring rates. It is stiff for streets but not unbearable for me. Thats why I love this setup.
09-18-09, 02:12 PM
#613
I used a tap & die kit to repair the threads. It was only the first few starter threads that needed to be fixed then I was able to get the OEM nut on. I've driven the car around for a few months with the bars and they are definitely stiffer than OEM. They have exposed exactly how unsporty my street tires really are....
09-21-09, 03:41 PM
#614
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I have them, but have not put the car on the track since installing them. I had issues with the threads on the front bar. I needed to re-thread the starter threads to get them to bolt up. I sent messages with another forum member who had issues with the paint on the threads (and needing to strip the paint off to get the stock bolt to thread on).
That was me...
I tried paint stripper, and ended up taking a wire wheel to the threads to get the paint off. Once the threads were clean the stock nuts went right on.It sounds like Mahjik's threads were actually damaged. I can see how that could happen during shipping.
I' ve had the Tanabe bars on my car for 3 months - I put them on right before the car went into the body shop for a repaint. I just got the car back this weekend and I have a lot of re-assembly to do, so I haven't driven on them enough to report.
09-23-09, 11:37 AM
#615
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I have them, but have not put the car on the track since installing them. I had issues with the threads on the front bar. I needed to re-thread the starter threads to get them to bolt up. I sent messages with another forum member who had issues with the paint on the threads (and needing to strip the paint off to get the stock bolt to thread on).
10-07-09, 10:19 PM
#616
<SNIP>
Chassis setup is HUGE. You just have to get interested in it if you care about going fast and having fun at the track. I will give you a nice dual purpose setup and once you get to the track if you want to go fast you will be changing some of the settings.
Alignment of the FD is an easy task for a shop so don’t let them give you a big song and dance about it. Tell them you want the car set to these specs. Period. Further, arrange from the getgo to get a complete printout of the before and after.
Tire pressure 30 front 27 rear
Ride height if you have coil overs should be set at 25 inches at the top of each wheelwell.
Toe in front between a 1/16 and 1/8th inch
Toe in rear zero
Camber front and rear 1.2 degrees negative
Caster equal minimal
Zero rear thrust angle.
<SNIP>
howard coleman
Chassis setup is HUGE. You just have to get interested in it if you care about going fast and having fun at the track. I will give you a nice dual purpose setup and once you get to the track if you want to go fast you will be changing some of the settings.
Alignment of the FD is an easy task for a shop so don’t let them give you a big song and dance about it. Tell them you want the car set to these specs. Period. Further, arrange from the getgo to get a complete printout of the before and after.
Tire pressure 30 front 27 rear
Ride height if you have coil overs should be set at 25 inches at the top of each wheelwell.
Toe in front between a 1/16 and 1/8th inch
Toe in rear zero
Camber front and rear 1.2 degrees negative
Caster equal minimal
Zero rear thrust angle.
<SNIP>
howard coleman
I am currently running the Pettit Alignment specs for 16-inch wheels under AutoX conditions.
I now run 18-inch wheels, with 285 race rubber all around.
I have AD coil-overs double-adjustable coilovers (450F/350R), Tri-Point front swaybar, and a PFS adjustable rear swaybar.
The Pettit alignment specs for 18-inch wheels on a short circuit track events (20-min. DE) calls for CONSIDERABLY LESS negative camber front (-1.8 vs. -1.0 ) & rear (-1.5 vs. -0.2) .
Why is that ?
Should I do it ?
What would happen if I don't and keep the 16-inch alignment specs ?
Thanks,
:-) neil
10-11-09, 02:59 AM
#617
Sorry if this isn't the case..but after we read the thread can we post here for advice?
I'm in the midst of my build right now and am currently tearing down the suspension. What started as a get the car and put it together and then mod it project has turned into get the car...and do everything now that I planned to do later kind of project.
The car is a '94 touring with 70k miles. When completed it will have 450hp and 450 ft lb of torque. I want it to be a mild mannered street car that is very tastefully done. It will be used for anything and everything I want to do on the weekend including road trips, autocross, track days, and drag racing.
This all started because the previous owner had a full superpro bushing kit..so I picked that up with the car. Now the entire suspension is going to come apart.
The car has Eibachs already, and no time better than right now to put new shocks on it. After a bit of research I went with the Tokico D-spec shocks.
Things I have decided on -
Eibach Springs
Tokico D-specs
17x9 wheels with 255/40 Toyo R888's all around
Full Superpro bushing kit
Things I am unsure about -
Sway Bars, should I get some and which ones to choose
Toe links and trailing arms -
The dramatic toe out affect is something I really don't care to experience at high speeds. The car is relatively low mileage at 70k miles and has always been in dry weather. I haven't had a chance to really check them out yet, but I do not expect to find rotten rubber. I have been considering making some solid ones on my own or buying an aftermarket set. I do not want to transfer vibration or noise into the cabin because of a solid link to the rear suspension...is it noticeable?
Trailing arms -
Honestly I am unsure as to what these really do. Should these be replaced as well? Same deal with the toe links...haven't had a chance to check them out...but I don't really expect to find them badly worn.
Thank you for any input on these questions or any words of advice in general! This thread has been an amazing read. I learn something every time I open it. If it was not 1 Am I'd still be reading! (was going to sleep an hour and a half ago) If I have forgotten anything I'm sorry but I am pretty sleepy
I'm in the midst of my build right now and am currently tearing down the suspension. What started as a get the car and put it together and then mod it project has turned into get the car...and do everything now that I planned to do later kind of project.
The car is a '94 touring with 70k miles. When completed it will have 450hp and 450 ft lb of torque. I want it to be a mild mannered street car that is very tastefully done. It will be used for anything and everything I want to do on the weekend including road trips, autocross, track days, and drag racing.
This all started because the previous owner had a full superpro bushing kit..so I picked that up with the car. Now the entire suspension is going to come apart.
The car has Eibachs already, and no time better than right now to put new shocks on it. After a bit of research I went with the Tokico D-spec shocks.
Things I have decided on -
Eibach Springs
Tokico D-specs
17x9 wheels with 255/40 Toyo R888's all around
Full Superpro bushing kit
Things I am unsure about -
Sway Bars, should I get some and which ones to choose
Toe links and trailing arms -
The dramatic toe out affect is something I really don't care to experience at high speeds. The car is relatively low mileage at 70k miles and has always been in dry weather. I haven't had a chance to really check them out yet, but I do not expect to find rotten rubber. I have been considering making some solid ones on my own or buying an aftermarket set. I do not want to transfer vibration or noise into the cabin because of a solid link to the rear suspension...is it noticeable?
Trailing arms -
Honestly I am unsure as to what these really do. Should these be replaced as well? Same deal with the toe links...haven't had a chance to check them out...but I don't really expect to find them badly worn.
Thank you for any input on these questions or any words of advice in general! This thread has been an amazing read. I learn something every time I open it. If it was not 1 Am I'd still be reading! (was going to sleep an hour and a half ago) If I have forgotten anything I'm sorry but I am pretty sleepy
10-11-09, 07:45 AM
#618
Say Howard et al,
I'd love to hear any thoughts on the affects of a "roll center correcting" lower arms, like in this thread...:
https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-wheels-tires-brakes-20/front-control-arm-ball-joints-fd-867709/
I'd love to hear any thoughts on the affects of a "roll center correcting" lower arms, like in this thread...:
https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-wheels-tires-brakes-20/front-control-arm-ball-joints-fd-867709/
10-20-09, 04:05 PM
#619
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Hi,
I'm about to buy some coilovers, what spring rates am I looking for? It's for track only and I'll be using Yokohama A048 semi slick tyres. I don't mind a harsh ride, I just want to get around the track as fast as possible.
Thanks
I'm about to buy some coilovers, what spring rates am I looking for? It's for track only and I'll be using Yokohama A048 semi slick tyres. I don't mind a harsh ride, I just want to get around the track as fast as possible.
Thanks
10-26-09, 11:20 AM
#620
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Follow the link to see what Howards setup looks like on track.
http://www.hart-photography.com/phot...ewImage=880934
The only difference is ride height, I'm about 1/4" higher on both ends so I can get up my driveway.
For those tuning in late:
Tein SS with 8kg front 6kg rear springs set 2 clicks from full soft. Ride height 25 1/4 to fender lip
Sumitomo HTRZIII's 235/40 front 265/35 rear 18" not shaved
Stock Sways
Overall I'm very happy with the car. The spacers I made for the rear make a little noise but everything else is as advertised. Reasonable street ride and good track manners. I will be upgrading the sways next. Any suggestions?
http://www.hart-photography.com/phot...ewImage=880934
The only difference is ride height, I'm about 1/4" higher on both ends so I can get up my driveway.
For those tuning in late:
Tein SS with 8kg front 6kg rear springs set 2 clicks from full soft. Ride height 25 1/4 to fender lip
Sumitomo HTRZIII's 235/40 front 265/35 rear 18" not shaved
Stock Sways
Overall I'm very happy with the car. The spacers I made for the rear make a little noise but everything else is as advertised. Reasonable street ride and good track manners. I will be upgrading the sways next. Any suggestions?
12-01-09, 02:04 PM
#622
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Hello all,
i appreciate the interest in this thread and haven't posted recently as i have pretty much laid out what i wanted to say.
one item hasn't been touched on however:
the SEAT!
the overall objective of this thread is to help all FD owners better get what they want out of the magnificent chassis. most of the thrust is dual purpose. street and track.
when i initially took delivery of Roger Mandeville's IMSA season winning RX3SP (converted to SCCA GT3 specs) it had a Corbeau padded race seat. i ran it for a couple of seasons w the seat. as i went about re-engineering the car for uprated (tube frame etc) GT3 rules i realised the seat had to go. i swapped in a fiberglass shell seat.
oh the difference!
i distinctly remember pulling in the pits at Road Atlanta and telling Marc Bushman, my crew chief, that the left rear tire was about 2 pounds low. it was.
it was ALL because the seat transmitted significantly more chassis feedback.
so track guys... find your self a shell (either alum or comp) and bolt it in for track sessions. swapping seats is really a quick proceedure so if you wish you can run your really nice OEM seat on the street and a shell for the track.
i can't emphasize enough how much more feedback, and therefore increased car control, a non padded seat adds.
howard
i appreciate the interest in this thread and haven't posted recently as i have pretty much laid out what i wanted to say.
one item hasn't been touched on however:
the SEAT!
the overall objective of this thread is to help all FD owners better get what they want out of the magnificent chassis. most of the thrust is dual purpose. street and track.
when i initially took delivery of Roger Mandeville's IMSA season winning RX3SP (converted to SCCA GT3 specs) it had a Corbeau padded race seat. i ran it for a couple of seasons w the seat. as i went about re-engineering the car for uprated (tube frame etc) GT3 rules i realised the seat had to go. i swapped in a fiberglass shell seat.
oh the difference!
i distinctly remember pulling in the pits at Road Atlanta and telling Marc Bushman, my crew chief, that the left rear tire was about 2 pounds low. it was.
it was ALL because the seat transmitted significantly more chassis feedback.
so track guys... find your self a shell (either alum or comp) and bolt it in for track sessions. swapping seats is really a quick proceedure so if you wish you can run your really nice OEM seat on the street and a shell for the track.
i can't emphasize enough how much more feedback, and therefore increased car control, a non padded seat adds.
howard
12-01-09, 04:37 PM
#624
Any recommendations on seats? I was thinking of doing the swap thing for events but didn't really want to deal with it. I just know that the stock leather seat needs to go for events. But I really don't like the look and feel of racing seats for the street.
Hello all,
i appreciate the interest in this thread and haven't posted recently as i have pretty much laid out what i wanted to say.
one item hasn't been touched on however:
the SEAT!
the overall objective of this thread is to help all FD owners better get what they want out of the magnificent chassis. most of the thrust is dual purpose. street and track.
when i initially took delivery of Roger Mandeville's IMSA season winning RX3SP (converted to SCCA GT3 specs) it had a Corbeau padded race seat. i ran it for a couple of seasons w the seat. as i went about re-engineering the car for uprated (tube frame etc) GT3 rules i realised the seat had to go. i swapped in a fiberglass shell seat.
oh the difference!
i distinctly remember pulling in the pits at Road Atlanta and telling Marc Bushman, my crew chief, that the left rear tire was about 2 pounds low. it was.
it was ALL because the seat transmitted significantly more chassis feedback.
so track guys... find your self a shell (either alum or comp) and bolt it in for track sessions. swapping seats is really a quick proceedure so if you wish you can run your really nice OEM seat on the street and a shell for the track.
i can't emphasize enough how much more feedback, and therefore increased car control, a non padded seat adds.
howard
i appreciate the interest in this thread and haven't posted recently as i have pretty much laid out what i wanted to say.
one item hasn't been touched on however:
the SEAT!
the overall objective of this thread is to help all FD owners better get what they want out of the magnificent chassis. most of the thrust is dual purpose. street and track.
when i initially took delivery of Roger Mandeville's IMSA season winning RX3SP (converted to SCCA GT3 specs) it had a Corbeau padded race seat. i ran it for a couple of seasons w the seat. as i went about re-engineering the car for uprated (tube frame etc) GT3 rules i realised the seat had to go. i swapped in a fiberglass shell seat.
oh the difference!
i distinctly remember pulling in the pits at Road Atlanta and telling Marc Bushman, my crew chief, that the left rear tire was about 2 pounds low. it was.
it was ALL because the seat transmitted significantly more chassis feedback.
so track guys... find your self a shell (either alum or comp) and bolt it in for track sessions. swapping seats is really a quick proceedure so if you wish you can run your really nice OEM seat on the street and a shell for the track.
i can't emphasize enough how much more feedback, and therefore increased car control, a non padded seat adds.
howard
