REDBULLSTX

iTrader: (4)

since you already have the RB springs i would say buy a set of tokico illumina 5 way adjustables. you can usually get a full set for under $400. i have the tokico's with eibach springs on my car and it handles great with a decent ride. for the money you cant beat it.

sigfrid

iTrader: (1)

So far, your advice matches what I have found on my searches. The Tokico illuminas seem to perform very well and the price is low. I amnot sure about my racing beat springs. I do not know why they made such a huge ride height difference. O their web-site, they claim a drop of 3/4 in in front and 1.5 in the rear but on my car it's more like 2 inchs up front and 1.5 in the rear. I will have to check if there are any numbers on these things and call RB. Thanks. If anyone else has an opinion on shock selection, I am all ears.

Tokico Illuminas are the top choice right now.
Thank you all for the help and direction. Anyone want to buy KYB GR-2's and stock springs?

hyperlitenerd

iTrader: (1)

You had to pull the rod out of the shock?? It should not be stuck in...

sigfrid

iTrader: (1)

Yap, when I took them out of the box, they were all retracted, not even strapped and only one had pusshed the carboard box as it tried to extend. Weird isn't it? I may ask the person I bought them from why they were that way but at this point I guess that and a quarter won't buy me a cup of tee. I am still a bit reticent to buy another brand and expect major change. I wonder how much is due to my super heavy 18" rims. I may swap my wheel with my RX8 just to see if that makes a difference. I guess it might be worth a try. Thanks for the continued help.

Sigfrid

pluto

howard,
Here're 2 videos from this weekend at the track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9wjC...eature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAQNp...eature=channel

the car is slightly tail happy but manageable. My boost was also down. It was only running 18psi.


Here're the tire temp. Tire temp after hot lap was 25psi. I dropped it down to 22psi front and 21psi rear
Session 1
133 137 139 ______ 147 138 120
113 121 125 ______ 151 154 147


I didn't measure tire temp on this since I have other issue needed to sort out
Session 2
131 129 128 ______ 151 142 127
117 121 122 ______ 149 150 141

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

Hello guys, I have been trying to figure out a weird issue wiht my FD's dynamics, maybe yall can help me out. On tight turns, my car pushes quite a bit yet on higher speed turns my car shows oversteer.

I dont mind the oversteer so much as its very controllable. But I am hesitating to soften up the front/stiffen the rear shocks as it will develope unneccesary oversteer. Right now on tight turns, the steering feels like a rubber band stretchig n snapping loose as the front tires loose grip. It weird understeer and very annoying as I love to be able to dip the nose into corners sharpely. (Its the FD's strong point)

Any input would be appreciated

*note I have a tanabe front sway bar, tein s-tech springs, and koni's on medium rebound equal on all 4*

Eggie

Too much front downforce. Get a big wing.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

"Here're the tire temp. Tire press after hot lap was 25psi. I dropped it down to 22psi front and 21psi rear
Session 1
133 137 139 ______ 147 138 120
113 121 125 ______ 151 154 147


I didn't measure tire press on this since I have other issue needed to sort out
Session 2
131 129 128 ______ 151 142 127
117 121 122 ______ 149 150 141"


not bad Steve, you are getting closer. your car should be a bit loose primarily due to the RR camber or lack of it. you need to add a degree of negative camber to the right rear as it is giving up on the car.

the LF needs a half degree more neg camber.

the RF needs a half degree less camber.

after you have made the changes run 3 laps and check to see your RR is not overinflated which it was... (hottest in center). if so remove 2 psi from the RR alone. the camber change may fix the pressure so you will have to see.

the car should end up pretty neutral once you get the camber adjusted.

howard

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

Of course a wing will help, but im focusing on tuning my suspension first.

Im going to try running my koni's on softer settings next time on all four corners and add a half degree more camber to the front. This is all I can think of besides getting ths shocks revalved for my specific spring rates.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

"Any input would be appreciated"

would be HTH but need alot more info than you have provided. i have my suspicions re your front end but will await further info.

need

wheel and tire sizes
all suspension settings, i e camber caster toe
tire pressures hot and cold
rear bar?
stock brakes?

there is a high probability you won't be revalving your shocks BTW...

howard

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

Thanks for the response howard

I am running stock 16's with Potena RE01R's and Toyo R888's (same issues with both but obviously better overall grip with the toyos)
camber is ~-1.2 around
toe 0
caster is alittle less than stock as the alignment shop couldnt get it perfect
Tire pressure at the track was 28psi hot rear 30psi front
I am using the stock 93 rear bar and my brakes (which are fine so far) are stock with slotted rotors, EBC yellowstuff, stainless lines & motul 600 fluid.
Stock torsen

Specter328

iTrader: (2)

Just a question, what are the cold pressures of the tires? I ask because I track my car on street tires as well and my hot pressures are slightly higher when the car is working fairly well.

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

cold pressure is ~22psi but its hard for me to say exactly as I usually start 28psi cold and after getting the tires hot I set it the desired psi.

supranak

iTrader: (22)

Howard,

This might be a little off topic, but I have been subscribed to this thread for awhile. The ride height of my front driver's side is lower than the front passenger side by 1" (gap between fender and tire). I bought the car this like this a few years ago. The car only had 37k miles and never been hit. The body panels and frame measurements checked out good by a certified body shop. I replaced the front shocks with new KYBs (front driver's side was blown). I changed the springs to Eibachs and the whole car sits lower, but the height difference is still there. I had the alignment done to Howard's specs, and the height is still off. Do you know what could be causing my height issue? What other components besides the springs controls ride height.

Thanks

tabuk1!

iTrader: (5)

Don't meam to speak out of turn. But, this has been discussed a lot on the forum....if you'll search you get a lot of theories...don't think anyone knows for sure. I'm a noob, but having read through the threads on this, the reason that made the most sense was the fact that the FD was a RH drive car so this was how they compensated for the weight of the driver to "even" things out..? I'm sure if I'm way off base on this someone will chime in...

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

ArmenMaxx

assuming a steady state within a corner the only thing that would effect a differing behavior would be aero.

first let's deal w your low speed push.

as i have posted many times a pyrometer is essential for chassis tuning at the track. different FDs can react somewhat differently ontrack due bushing wear etc etc.

a pyrometer will immediately tell you what's up. you may be able to find an analog pyrometer for around $100. they work great. don't get a laser dot heat gun as they just read the surface. though they are valuable to have for other jobs. you need to know your camber setting is proper.

you need to know the proper air pressure in all 4 tires... they will be different. the pyrometer will zero you in on pressure.

once you have camber and pressure nailed if you still have a lower speed push problem you need to change the roll couple. probably switch back to the stock front bar or get a larger rear bar to balance or change spring rates of cheat a bit on tire pressures.

while your at it do the tie wrap thing and LMK what your travel is.

that should keep you busy

do report back w what you have learned.

oh, one other item... you reported the steering effort was like a rubber band. i read that as a progressive increase in effort as the wheel is turned. one of the most important design objectives was to have everything linear. an explanation on linear and race car suspensions could easily be book length... i run manual steering (since 99) so i actually get steering feedback. anyway, the rubber band feedback generally comes from too much caster. i know you have mentioned you are below factory settings, which is good, too much caster is truly evil, but maybe the setting has loosened etc.

sit in a car w alot of caster at rest and turn the steering wheel lock to lock... notice how the front corner rises on on side and dips on the other. it is all caster. and it jacks weight around which is bad bad bad.

howard

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

thanks howard,
I will keep everyone posted

gkmccready

R888s don't like low hot pressures:
http://www.aimtire.com/typ_category....&ObjectID=6828

On my 3400# track car I'm aiming for 42psi hot and it is way way happier with the R888s. I originally had them coming in around 34-36psi hot and now that's where I start cold. Grip is MUCH better.

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

hot pressure = higher pressure... Right?

regardless I ill try higher PSI also

gkmccready

Cold = Where you set them when the tires are cold (ie. you haven't been on track yet to heat them up)

Hot = Where they end up after you've been on track and got them up to operating temperature

Earlier in this thread you'll see information about getting your alignment right by using a [probe!] pyrometer across the tread surface (inside/middle/outside). You can give that a shot, the "optimal temperature" is listed in the URL I pasted.

In any case, with the R888s aim for somewhere around 40psi when you come in off the track and then futz with it +/- a few pounds and find what you like or what works on the pyrometer. I think you'll be shocked by the better grip and much better wear rates of running the R888s at a higher pressure.

Note that if you go to an RA1 or even another tire manufacturer you'll need to go through this process all over again and they typically like lower hot pressures...

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

I know the difference between hot vs cold pressure but i was reffering to hotter pressure which increases ur tire temp ( higher psi = hotter tire temp) Wat i do at the the track is carry a infared temp gun and check my tire temp, adjust my psi according to my tire temp.

None the less ill take ur advice and try higher pressure next time. I wont have a pyrometer but ill do the best i can

gkmccready

So, tires increase in pressure usually due mostly to water vapor in the tire. This is why some folks nitrogen fill rather than compressed air. You'll get some pressure rise but not nearly as much. Not that nitrogen is better, but it's typically dry.

IR thermometers suck. That's the simplest thing to say. If you have time to run a cool down lap you've lost all meaningful IR data and most of the meaningful probe data. You want to roll in to the hot pit and have an assistant take probe data. The exterior of the tire just plain cools too quickly, especially if you're running a reasonable amount of static camber which will make your inside temps seem high even if they're not.

AchillesGr

iTrader: (1)

hi guys,
the last days i am trying to read the thread from the beggining so to understand what is going on with coilovers for the fd.
i want to follow Howards advise and instal coilovers with 8/6 or 10/8 springs.
for my research and my badget i ended at the below options:

1)tein ss
2)tein flex
3)apexi N1
4)hks hipermax III

But my main concern is the softer springs that I want. probably i will have to change springs in any of the above options.
I want 8/6 or10/8 rates max.as you know the market , can you please recommend one considering how difficult is to find springs at this rate?

i heard some " swift" springs. since i do not know anything about brands could you please help me?can i fit these softer springs to an APEXI or HKS maybe?
or maybe suggest another brand for springs?
is it advisable or it is best to use only same brand springs?

Howard , i know that you chose the tein flex and also saied a good words too for the APEXi but with diferent springs.
if i change the apexi springs , considering their good price , i will end to have same price with the tein flex. will this setup( apexi) be better than the tein flex?(is monotube better noticibly for a street car?maybe monotube works with hard spring only?)
are n1 better or worst than the flex?

the hks option is maybe out already since it is too expensive and i heard some complaints in the forum for some noises.

from what i have searched already i get more confused . iam not a pro and i respect yours opinion.there are so many variables that someone must consider that i think an opinion from a profesional is valuable.
so could anyone advise me?
the car is not a race car but i am thinking the best option for the same money. 1000-1500$

Thanks
achilles

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i am less than 2 weeks from starting the Pettit TrakPro evaluation process. i currently have the Stage 3 and Comp versions and will be testing both.

the overall build quality (viewed from the exterior of course) is superb. i also really like the rubber upper mount. someone was listening.

perhaps one of the best of the numerous TrakPro options is stage 2.

the stage 2 has all the same exterior, the rubber upper, the 24 adjustments, ride height independent of lower spring mount and 10/8 springs! at what i consider to be a friendly pricepoint.

"Stage II uses the same spring rates as Stage I but has 24 dampening adjustment positions providing ample adjustment range for optimizing grip under most conditions and since the adjustments are accessible from the top changes to suit conditions are quick and easy. Spring Rates: Front 10kg / Rear 8kg"

i have a feeling that this is the package that would make the most FD owners smile.

http://www.pettitracing.com/rx7/index.htm

as most readers of this thread know i consider spring rate to be near the top of the list w re to coil overs. one of the neat things that Pettit is planning is to make readily available other spring options. in other words if it works out because you are running real race tires and generating alot of lateral Gs that you need more spring, yet you also use your car on the street... Pettit will offer you whatever you wish so you can switch them out... dual purpose. springs can be changed in an hour and a half once you get the process dialed.


we had actually talked about having an inventory of springs that could be used for individual testing purposes on loan/rental so you could really figure out what you need. once enough of the TrakPros are in use i would imagine that the community will zero in on certain rates and much of the guesswork will be eliminated.

Cam/Pettit are serious racers and any serious coil over package offers spring options. the rest of the market is just 'high performance" stuff. not to say it is bad, just a different product.

hc

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i have been wanting to show interested parties how to spread the steel sleeves that slide in our aluminum control arms...

here you go



a 3/8 carriage bolt, a couple of washers and nuts and the job is finished. no struggle to re-connect the lower shock and swaybar mount.