pluto

Howard,
I just got the yokohama Advan slicks. They are 280/650R18 and 320/650R18 soft compound and Delron Bushing kit installed.

What do you think of this alignment spec for a starting point?

Front
Toe Camber Caster
0 -3 +6.0

Rear
Toe Camber
0 -1.2

aoc007

iTrader: (5)

Hm ok I will just have to test the rate of the H&Rs myself!

And I will post my track experiences soon I just have been super busy and had no time to create a really complete post.

-Andy

wholelottahustle

Since this thread is about chassis setup. Can anyone comment on the most ideal place to relocate the battery. I was thinking the passenger bin to offset the driver weight?

Or does this matter that much since the battery is originally on the drivers side? And does it matter even less if you have coilovers and can cornerweight the car?

wholelottahustle

Another quick question. I know 50/50 weight distribution is "ideal", and Howard has commented a slight rear weight bias is preferential for putting down the power to the ground.

I know we have limited control over this but, is it better to have the weight distributed out towards the wheels of the car or towards the center of the car for optimal handling?

Julian

iTrader: (14)

The same non-responsive answer I got from them a few weeks ago. I hung up the phone and ordered Eibachs.

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

I have a set in my garage if anyone wants to test them.

afgmoto1978

iTrader: (6)

Recently got my car setup for this coming weekends Time Attack. I feel this will be a good setup for Bridgestone RE1ORs and the track PIR. Though, I would like your option on this Howard or someone else with a lot more experience than I do.

255/18s Front and 265/18s Rear, intended hot tire pressure 36 psi all around.

Tein Flex - 10kg/8KG
Suspension Techniques front & rear bar. Rear set at softest setting.

Delrin bushings all around, four point cage tied into the rear shock towers and a basic aftermarket front strut tower bar.

Front:

-1.28 Deg Camber
1/16th Toe in
3.95 Deg L & 4.0 Deg R Caster

Rear:

-1.25 Deg Camber
0.0 Toe

25" Rear ride height with 1 deg down Rake (24 9/16")

240 lbs Driver Ballast
2884 lbs total

LF-RR X Weight - 1444 lbs
RF-LR X Weight - 1440 lbs

LF 706 RF 698
LR 742 RR 738

Weight Distribution - 51.3% Rear

Also, current power output is 373 whp, 268 ft-lbs, will be making more soon (I hope).

Adam

afgmoto1978

iTrader: (6)

Forgot to add this, the tires are 35 series.

Edit: Whoops I meant to type RE-01Rs.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

'lots of good traffic on the thread.... thanks all for continuing to make it interesting while i wait on FJO...

Pluto:

yokohama Advan slicks. They are 280/650R18 and 320/650R18 soft compound and Delron Bushing kit installed.
What do you think of this alignment spec for a starting point?
Front
Toe Camber Caster
0 -3 +6.0

Rear
Toe Camber
0 -1.2

650 on the slicks should work well... other than putting a touch of toe-in in the front that looks like a great starting point. i hope you are able to get tire temps and pressures.

wholelottahustle:
most ideal place to relocate the battery. I was thinking the passenger bin to offset the driver weight?

that is the best place for the battery and will help a great deal. not only are you adding rear weight, you are removing front weight. also it is lower...

is it better to have the weight distributed out towards the wheels of the car or towards the center of the car for optimal handling?:

ideally all weight should be at the roll center of the car... or towards the center. if it is a track car only you could add ballast at the rocker panel on the right side if your track is run clockwise as most are...

afgmoto1978:
Front:

-1.28 Deg Camber
1/16th Toe in
3.95 Deg L & 4.0 Deg R Caster

Rear:

-1.25 Deg Camber
0.0 Toe


you will need more neg camber if you want to run fast ontrack.... as Steve is set at around 3 degrees front 2 degrees rear. this is too much for the street but good ontrack.

as always a pyrometer will point the way.

hc

afgmoto1978

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, I have a pyrometer and plan to check. I didn't want to go crazy on the front camber since I'm running street tires for this event. I will mainly play with the tire pressure to get a good setup with what I got. If it's totally off I will increase camber.

I will post the numbers once the weekends is over. Thanks

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

at some point, you should just go and have fun driving the thing. if the chassis is decent more seat time will shave more off your laptimes than more setup.

pluto

howard,
I just got an alignment done on my car. The most they could do on the front is -1.6 camber. Currently, my alignment setup is as follow:

Front
toe-in Camber Caster

1/16" -1.6 +4

Rear
toe-in Camber
0 -2

How do I go about getting more camber on the front?

damian

iTrader: (2)

sup steve, sorry I missed ya last time u were in town doing a tuning session.

about ur camber, they must be wrong about not being able to get more camber in the front. You should be able to get well past -2 in front unless ur other settings are so out of wack that they are preventing it?

I run around -2.5 infront, I do not have any special suspension components to allow more camber.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

steve,

well that sure makes your camber adjusting easy... just crank it to the max

of course you need more and the FD when properly working, as Damian states, should easily give you close to 3.

i would remove both inner A arm bolts/cams and give them a close inspection. something isn't right.

i also suggest you give this a priority to get straightened out as it is really important for your next excursion.

hc

nrattV7

iTrader: (1)

Howard,

I have gotten a base set up like you mentioned on page one, but with a few differences. Alignment shop was only able to go down in caster to about 6.7 L and 7.0 R. They had a problem going lower than that. Luckily I was at an autocross that weekend too and it felt good for autox, but not sure I want to run this much caster on track. Does this seem right? As stated before I am using Delrin bushings, Koni sports, and GC coilover sleeves with 450/350 front/rear. The springs also were 6.5 inches up front and 7 inches in the rear and because of the limits of these springs/coilover setup the front was only able to be raised up to 24.5 from wheel well to ground. This seems odd. Called GC and they said that the rates I got were lower than they usually provide in their kits for the FD. Would it be better to go up to 500 up front? Sorry my numbers seem pretty odd/off from what I can understand from this thread. Help would be appreciated.

Thanks for the great input on this thread!

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

Nrattv7:

caster is fine...

i would spend some time on your front setup.

i would install it all, set it at as high a rideheight in the front as possible and mark your shock rod position. remove all and check where the shock is in relation to full stroke. if it is not in the middle of it's range, if it is overly compressed, i would either find a spacer for your spring or switch to a longer spring. even if it is 500.

look around, there are tons of 2.5 i d springs out there so you may find a 450 somewhere else.

you do not want to bottom out your shock.

good luck and keep us posted.

hc

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

here's something i posted in another section that might have some value to those considering running the standing mile events that are gaining popularity... i don't look at them as drag racing as it is possible to "ease" off the line a bit and the last 3/4 of a mile is probably quite exciting if you are reaching for 200 mph.

further, the numbers indicate just how important a factor AERO DRAG is since the formula for a particular speed considers only frontal area and the drag coefficient as factors. after solving for hp to run, say 100 mph, the additional hp available is the sole factor in determining ACCELERATION.

Fd Top Speed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

there are two primary considerations:

GEARING and AERO DRAG

Gearing

the (US) FD has a .719 fifth gear.
the (US-manual trans) FD has a 4.10 rear gear.
stock sized rear tires 225/50/16 25 inch diameter 835 revolutions per mile.

the factory carries the top speed at 159-161 depending where you get your info.

let's do 7000 RPM in fifth:

7000 * 1.3908 (the inverse of .719)= 9735/4.1= 2374 * .95 (5% tire slip) =
2256/835 (revs per mile) = 2.7016 * 60 (minutes in an hour) = 162 mph.

6000 = 139
8000 = 185
9000 = 208

with an auto trans 3.90 rear gear:

6000 = 146
7000 = 170
8000 = 194
9000 = 218


AERO

once you have the gears you need to deal w the main issue: AERO DRAG.

the formula to solve for hp required to run a particular speed is interesting. it is all frontal area and drag coefficient and the hp required goes up with the CUBE OF THE SPEED!

FD

Drag Coefficient (R1) .31
Frontal Area 19.26 sq feet

let's solve for the flywheel hp to run 162 mph.

the formula looks like this:

(.31 * 19.26 * 162^3)/146,600 = 173 hp
to this number (173) we add 5% transmission, 6% driveline and 60 hp to drive the tires.

total flywheel hp to drive an FD 162:

173 + 9 + 10 + 60 = 252 flywheel hp.

hp to drive the FD 180 is 315 flywheel

hp to drive the FD 200 is 410 flywheel

hp to drive the FD 225 is 558 flywheel

notice how cubing the speed is catching up with us.

from 180 to 225 is a 25% increase in speed.

the HP needed has gone up 77%.

i have run my car to 170 on the main straight (6000 ft) at Brainerd Int'l. at the time i ran no rear wing and the R1 splitter. it was rock solid. any FDs having a high speed problem need to look at setup. alignment, tire balance and aero.

i am quite intrigued at the standing start mile long events. if all works out this year i would like to do either the Texas Mile or the Maxston Mile. i would be wanting to run 200. there are some good Mile videos out there on the web.

drool.

howard coleman

pluto

Hey Damian,
Nice to hear from you. I thought it was weird that they couldn't get anymore camber than -1.6 on my car. What caster are you running? I wonder if caster adjustment would cause camber limitation?

afgmoto1978

iTrader: (6)

Well, caster and camber adjustment are connected. Both are set by the lower A-arm.

Damien,

What is your camber set at in the rear?


After thinking about it, I agree that I need more camber. Will be getting it adjusted today. I'm going -2.5 degs front and thinking -1.5" deg in the rear, everything else stays the same.

damian

iTrader: (2)

I usually do the cars alignment myself using a smart camber tool for camber, toe plates for front toe and a simple strings setup i made for the car for doing rear toe. I typically do my corner balancing at the same time.

Every so often I take the car to Leighton's Garage to double check my numbers to make sure I am getting everything right and calibrating my smart camber gage correctly. (Leighton's Garage is one of Leighton Reece's shops, the man behind Banner Racing)

So far we have been right on the money with their numbers, and I trust their numbers :-)

According to their numbers, my caster is 5.0 in front.

Ok time for shameless picture show and tell:

Me and the man himself, Leighton Reece, at one of his shops.


Meeting Speed Challenge driver Shauna Marinus at Road America.


Me and TC Kline during the 1 Lap of America in 06.


Meeting my idol, Randy Pobst at VIR. (I look like im a crazy Randy stalker thats gonna kidnap him..LOL)


Talkin with my other idol, Howard Colman at Road America.




Ok, no more random pics, back to suspension talk!!!

damian

iTrader: (2)

>>Damien, What is your camber set at in the rear?

Typically I have the rear set between -1.7 and -2, anywhere in that range works well for my car.


BTW, two 'a's in my name, no 'e' :-)
Ironically, the first A is pronounced like 'ahh' and the second A is pronounced like an O to say it properly in the english (dahh-mee-on is the best english can do at its correct pronunciation)

Sandro

iTrader: (1)

This maybe a stupid question. But, did you raise the car to maybe fit your monster wheels?

With stock height, if you sacrifice the caster - as you did - you should be able to get more than 2 deg. I was at 2.2 or 2.3 with stock springs. But, if you raise the car you would get less. I know of people installing high pressure gas monotube shocks with stock springs and getting no more than 1.8 as a result.

- Sandro

Andrew.

iTrader: (4)

My Tein Flex's are now installed and I just picked up my Tanabe bars today from Evasive Thanks HC

pluto

Just had the car on the lift. It looks like something might be bent on the passenger side front suspension since the adjustment is maxed out but the left side still has plenty of room for camber adjustment. Since I already replaced all bushings on the car, I'll wait for a little while before I replace the upper and lower control arms. I think -1.6 isn't too bad for now. I'll fine tune it with tire pressure.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Steve,
Where'd you get the Advans?

I've got a set of take-off Hoosier 280/640/18 Rolex GT slicks I haven't tried yet, but the new Pirelli replacements don't come in a suitable size.