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That is a serious problem, there should not be any sparks or arcs happening except at the spark plugs inside the engine. It's hard to tell from the video where on the spark plug wires are the arcs are happening, but in general you should try to keep the high-voltage wires as far from each other as possible. Find the shortest distance between high-voltage wires and try to double or triple it, then check in the dark again.
FYI, if you're unlucky this arcing may have already damaged your spark plug wires or your ignition coils. Look for very small burn marks or holes in the spark plug wires, especially near the areas where you were seeing arcing.
Those arcs are happening because the high-voltage from the ignition coils is finding a lower-resistance path to ground than the usual path. The usual path is from the high-voltage post of the ignition coil, through the boot, into the spark plug wire, from the spark plug wire boot into the metal part on the back of the plug, jumping the small air gap at the spark plug electrode, then out of the spark plug threads and into the rotor housing, then out of the bolt and into the and ground wire, then back through the ground wire to the ignition coil. If any step of that path is a higher a resistance than jumping the air gap between the spark plug wire and ground (or the ignition coil's high-voltage post and ground) , the energy will simply take the shorter path instead of making a spark at the spark plug.
If you are using anti-seize on the spark plug threads that's usually a bad idea. Clean it off as best as you can. Similar story for dielectric grease, avoid getting it between the metal connector (inside the spark plug wire) and the metal part of the spark plug. If your spark plug wires are not covering the metal parts of the ignition coil's high-voltage post, that would be a problem. If the metal terminals inside the spark plug boots are loose and not making a good connection to the ignition coil post or to the spark plug, that is a problem. If the boots themselves are loose and leaving an air gap path for the spark plug, that is a problem.
That is a serious problem, there should not be any sparks or arcs happening except at the spark plugs inside the engine. It's hard to tell from the video where on the spark plug wires are the arcs are happening, but in general you should try to keep the high-voltage wires as far from each other as possible. Find the shortest distance between high-voltage wires and try to double or triple it, then check in the dark again.
FYI, if you're unlucky this arcing may have already damaged your spark plug wires or your ignition coils. Look for very small burn marks or holes in the spark plug wires, especially near the areas where you were seeing arcing.
Those arcs are happening because the high-voltage from the ignition coils is finding a lower-resistance path to ground than the usual path. The usual path is from the high-voltage post of the ignition coil, through the boot, into the spark plug wire, from the spark plug wire boot into the metal part on the back of the plug, jumping the small air gap at the spark plug electrode, then out of the spark plug threads and into the rotor housing, then out of the bolt and into the and ground wire, then back through the ground wire to the ignition coil. If any step of that path is a higher a resistance than jumping the air gap between the spark plug wire and ground (or the ignition coil's high-voltage post and ground) , the energy will simply take the shorter path instead of making a spark at the spark plug.
If you are using anti-seize on the spark plug threads that's usually a bad idea. Clean it off as best as you can. Similar story for dielectric grease, avoid getting it between the metal connector (inside the spark plug wire) and the metal part of the spark plug. If your spark plug wires are not covering the metal parts of the ignition coil's high-voltage post, that would be a problem. If the metal terminals inside the spark plug boots are loose and not making a good connection to the ignition coil post or to the spark plug, that is a problem. If the boots themselves are loose and leaving an air gap path for the spark plug, that is a problem.
Good luck, hope you find and fix the problem.
thank you i do too once and for all!
Im not using anything on spark plug threads, and i will be paying careful attetion to wire/coil post fitment with new wires
im hoping that one wire was a defect, didnt appear to do the same with the other 2 wires i tested right before
is it even possible that i installed the ffe FD TRIGGER HALL trigger kit incorrectly?
pretty sure that toothed wheel is offset so can only be installed one way
Will be watching closely for any more results to your ignition issue. I'm having a similar situation but what I'm seeing is my spark plugs completely carbon fouling in 50-70 miles. I traced my coil harness back and found that I didn't have Pin D of coils grounded directly to my battery as recommended. I've now grounded all 4 coil Pin D's directly to my battery terminal in my trunk, over the next week or so I'll be testing this out to see if it fixes my issue. Otherwise I'll be spending a lot more time doing the same diagnosis you are. Will be digging out my HEI tester here too, I haven't used it yet as this is a relatively new to light problem for me but likewise..... other than fouled spark plugs I don't notice abnormalities to engine sound, feel, or drive. I don't have any dyno pulls to see my torque and power curves though. My engine only has 100 miles on it so that will come at a later time.
Will be watching closely for any more results to your ignition issue. I'm having a similar situation but what I'm seeing is my spark plugs completely carbon fouling in 50-70 miles. I traced my coil harness back and found that I didn't have Pin D of coils grounded directly to my battery as recommended. I've now grounded all 4 coil Pin D's directly to my battery terminal in my trunk, over the next week or so I'll be testing this out to see if it fixes my issue. Otherwise I'll be spending a lot more time doing the same diagnosis you are. Will be digging out my HEI tester here too, I haven't used it yet as this is a relatively new to light problem for me but likewise..... other than fouled spark plugs I don't notice abnormalities to engine sound, feel, or drive. I don't have any dyno pulls to see my torque and power curves though. My engine only has 100 miles on it so that will come at a later time.
well keep me updated, because I am all out of ideas. basically car is just sitting until i can figure out what to do
I'm just stumped at this point
So I hooked up my HEI coil tester last night. I need to do some more playing around but I just tested them while cranking the car cold with the fuel pump off. I was getting spark from my HEI coil tester but I was also noticing arcing between spark wires much like your video posted above (to a lesser extent than yours were though). This was happening with both my rotor 1 leading and trailing plug wires disconnected at the same time, so going to test again with all the wires connected and see if I notice any sparking. Will likely idle the car to get it hot and check spark again that way.
I currently have a set of MSD 8.5mm super conductor wires. Originally I ordered these in a length that would accommodate my coils being much further away but they ended up getting mounted A LOT closer than originally intended. In my case I think I have too much excess spark wire length, the wires are able to contact each other (I have spaces installed to try and prevent this but that's obviously not working) and with the slack in them the wires can contact the chassis, engine block, etc; So I'm dealing with a less than ideal situation. Hopefully some new shorter spark wires gets this sorted out.
Last edited by RotaryMachineRx; 07-19-23 at 10:07 AM.
i ran MSD Superconductor wires for a while until i noticed some crossfire. i did some research and came up w Magnecor about 15 years ago. i am still running my original set. they custom make them for you. you spec the length and tell them what ends you need. not particularly expensive. what sold me on them was the tech info on their site:
with the combustion chamber pressure we generate getting the spark across to ground is like driving a nail into granite. if the spark can find an easier path it will... boots and wires need to be bullet proof. (Samantha Fish).
leakage correlates directly with combustion chamber pressure/load so free revving the engine in the dark will not give you the result you need. maybe tape your phone/camera under the hood at night and go for a drive.
or buy a set of Magnecors
wires also need to have an inch separation... here are my vintage Magnecor wires. BTW, MSD makes a really nice set of separators.
So I hooked up my HEI coil tester last night. I need to do some more playing around but I just tested them while cranking the car cold with the fuel pump off. I was getting spark from my HEI coil tester but I was also noticing arcing between spark wires much like your video posted above (to a lesser extent than yours were though). This was happening with both my rotor 1 leading and trailing plug wires disconnected at the same time, so going to test again with all the wires connected and see if I notice any sparking. Will likely idle the car to get it hot and check spark again that way.
I currently have a set of MSD 8.5mm super conductor wires. Originally I ordered these in a length that would accommodate my coils being much further away but they ended up getting mounted A LOT closer than originally intended. In my case I think I have too much excess spark wire length, the wires are able to contact each other (I have spaces installed to try and prevent this but that's obviously not working) and with the slack in them the wires can contact the chassis, engine block, etc; So I'm dealing with a less than ideal situation. Hopefully some new shorter spark wires gets this sorted out.
ya i have the same msd wires, I have replaced (with another set of msd wires) and no change.
[QUOTE=Howard Coleman;12568680]i ran MSD Superconductor wires for a while until i noticed some crossfire. i did some research and came up w Magnecor about 15 years ago. i am still running my original set. they custom make them for you. you spec the length and tell them what ends you need. not particularly expensive. what sold me on them was the tech info on their site:
QUOTE]
Good to know on your experience with the MSD's, I read your Magnecor info on the Seven Eleven thread, so I actually have the form filled out from the Magnecor website already, just need to confirm my lengths required. I have generic separators on my MSD wires now but with the additional, unnecessary length I have with them it's nearly impossible to keep them fully apart in all places. Going to get Magnecor's made with straight ends on both sides and will have wires in the ballpark of only 6" long. Should be easy to keep these separated. Hoping this spark "leakage" is the root cause of my plugs fouling. Also looking into injectors, for some reason I'm seeing a bit more info (speaking with my tuner in particular) that maybe the Adaptronic EMOD 013 for the Rx8 does not play well with the ID1000's (especially at idle/decel) .... got a line locally on a set of used, but cleaned and tested, ID1050x's that I'll probably give a try.
Sorry for hijacking this thread for a minute there.... Alex after reading through your thread I think getting some short as possible Magnecor wires will sort you out. You have a lot of crossfiring going on and I don't see how that's not causing your misfires.
Last edited by RotaryMachineRx; 07-20-23 at 10:20 AM.
i ran MSD Superconductor wires for a while until i noticed some crossfire. i did some research and came up w Magnecor about 15 years ago. i am still running my original set. they custom make them for you. you spec the length and tell them what ends you need. not particularly expensive. what sold me on them was the tech info on their site:
QUOTE]
Good to know on your experience with the MSD's, I read your Magnecor info on the Seven Eleven thread, so I actually have the form filled out from the Magnecor website already, just need to confirm my lengths required. I have generic separators on my MSD wires now but with the additional, unnecessary length I have with them it's nearly impossible to keep them fully apart in all places. Going to get Magnecor's made with straight ends on both sides and will have wires in the ballpark of only 6" long. Should be easy to keep these separated. Hoping this spark "leakage" is the root cause of my plugs fouling. Also looking into injectors, for some reason I'm seeing a bit more info (speaking with my tuner in particular) that maybe the Adaptronic EMOD 013 for the Rx8 does not play well with the ID1000's (especially at idle/decel) .... got a line locally on a set of used, but cleaned and tested, ID1050x's that I'll probably give a try.
Sorry for hijacking this thread for a minute there.... Alex after reading through your thread I think getting some short as possible Magnecor wires will sort you out. You have a lot of crossfiring going on and I don't see how that's not causing your misfires.
no need to apologize, any info we get from this will help you, me and maybe other future issues with others.
hopefully we can figure it out, I have spoken to a few reputable guys, and I get same response
car is down maybe 100 hp, something is def wrong
you would think something that causes that much of a power lost would be obvious?! 🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
"you would think something that causes that much of a power lost would be obvious?"
"dramatic loss of power can result from when sensor output is altered by EMI" a loose copy from Magnecore's four page treatise entitled "The truth about Ignition Wire Conductors."
this is a 4 page read that requires you spend some time and will change how you consider spark plug wires. it may also (may) solve your problem which is yet unsolved.
the article used to be front and center on their site (written in 1997) and is now buried in their catalog.
"you would think something that causes that much of a power lost would be obvious?"
"dramatic loss of power can result from when sensor output is altered by EMI" a loose copy from Magnecore's four page treatise entitled "The truth about Ignition Wire Conductors."
this is a 4 page read that requires you spend some time and will change how you consider spark plug wires. it may also (may) solve your problem which is yet unsolved.
the article used to be front and center on their site (written in 1997) and is now buried in their catalog.
sorry, don't know. i suggest you contact them and they will certainly deliver the correct items. i have 90 degree boots on my IGN-1As and they fit perfectly. at the plugs my boots fit both the larger NGKs and the smaller 6601s.
I think IGN-1 coils are HEI style. I can't prove this, but I've heard they were OE equipment on Mercury Marine fuel injected engines even before the Pantera EFI guy started marketing them as his invention. Then AEM and Haltech and other aftermarket EFI companies followed.
I think IGN-1 coils are HEI style. I can't prove this, but I've heard they were OE equipment on Mercury Marine fuel-injected engines even before the Pantera EFI guy started marketing them as his invention...
On the money, as usual, Scotty... (my 2006 picture).
do u know which boots/ends i need for the smart coils and denso race plugs? i will order a set
I plan on just emailing them that it's for a rotary and have the IGN-1A's for coils, I gotta think between the popularity of the IGN's and a company that specialized only in spark plug wires is going to know which boots fit those without me trying to figure out which boot code is correct.
I plan on just emailing them that it's for a rotary and have the IGN-1A's for coils, I gotta think between the popularity of the IGN's and a company that specialized only in spark plug wires is going to know which boots fit those without me trying to figure out which boot code is correct.
lemme know what they say, I'll order a set as well!
I'm bound to have good luck eventually i suppose
lemme know what they say, I'll order a set as well!
I'm bound to have good luck eventually i suppose
I emailed Magnecor yesterday with the following info:
This would be for a 13B-REW Rotary application with AEM IGN-1A ignition coils. I've measured out my required lengths and boot types below (measurements are wire length from metal coil terminal to spark plug terminal):
I'd be looking to get these in the black KV85 wires with black boots. Please let me know if you require any additional information.
They know what they need in regard to boot types just based on that. They followed up with me almost immediately to say they were processing my order and would have a cost back to me ASAP. They then followed up with me this morning via email with price and a few questions (how I measured, confirm color, payment info). Rather than type back and forth I gave them a call and let them know how I measured my lengths (I used a piece of 12g wire and ran it in the routing I wanted from coil terminal to spark plug terminal and measured the length of that. I then added a half inch to each for some play). I should be able to keep lots of distance between each of these wires now; as reference, my current MSD super conductors are closer to 15" long. I was dealing with a lady named Heather who was fantastic and was happy with the info I gave her to begin fabricating these.
They need 2-3 days then they will be shipped out to me. Quite amazing for $100 plus shipping.
Here's to hoping I'm seeing some crossfiring or some EMI interference that this will solve. Mentioned it in my thread (I don't think this applies to you though) but I also have a Noid light on the way so I can test my ECU signal to each of the injectors, see if maybe the ECU injector driver could be the issue for me, maybe these are staying on when they shouldn't be at some points.
Last edited by RotaryMachineRx; 07-26-23 at 11:46 AM.
edit: my bad memory , I bought the Taylor 409 wires, which are 10.4mm. The universal V8 set is $140 USD on Summit Racing.
I bought a V8 semi-finished universal set that you cut the coil end to length and finish off, then had the extra 4 wires for a future set on the shelf. They do make a 4-cyl set, but it seems hard to find them anywhere as opposed to paying list price direct from Magnecor.
I emailed Magnecor yesterday with the following info:
This would be for a 13B-REW Rotary application with AEM IGN-1A ignition coils. I've measured out my required lengths and boot types below (measurements are wire length from metal coil terminal to spark plug terminal):
I'd be looking to get these in the black KV85 wires with black boots. Please let me know if you require any additional information.
They know what they need in regard to boot types just based on that. They followed up with me almost immediately to say they were processing my order and would have a cost back to me ASAP. They then followed up with me this morning via email with price and a few questions (how I measured, confirm color, payment info). Rather than type back and forth I gave them a call and let them know how I measured my lengths (I used a piece of 12g wire and ran it in the routing I wanted from coil terminal to spark plug terminal and measured the length of that. I then added a half inch to each for some play). I should be able to keep lots of distance between each of these wires now; as reference, my current MSD super conductors are closer to 15" long. I was dealing with a lady named Heather who was fantastic and was happy with the info I gave her to begin fabricating these.
They need 2-3 days then they will be shipped out to me. Quite amazing for $100 plus shipping.
Here's to hoping I'm seeing some crossfiring or some EMI interference that this will solve. Mentioned it in my thread (I don't think this applies to you though) but I also have a Noid light on the way so I can test my ECU signal to each of the injectors, see if maybe the ECU injector driver could be the issue for me, maybe these are staying on when they shouldn't be at some points.
nice I should place an order
an update on mine, I wanted to verify timing again on my haltech so I grabbed a basic timing gun. just point and shoot
so I set advance to be 15*
and the trailing split advance (the amount of retard the trailing spark will fire relative from the ign lock firing angle) to 15*
so I should see 15* on leading and 0* on trailing 1
so i put gun on leading steady, dam near 15
put timing gun on trailing wire and point
boom 15* again, then 0* then 15*
it's not staying stead and revving seemed to make it worse
then others times steady 0 then start twitching again
06-22-23, 10:49 PM
, I bought the Taylor 409 wires, which are 10.4mm. The universal V8 set is $140 USD on Summit Racing.
