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last 3 pulls about 18 psi with AI. only revved out to 6k and u can see the wiggles
tuner felt we should stop and reassess the situation. believes I'm having ignition issues, possibly wiring to coils? I'm using an IRP ignition kit. not really sure what's going on.
you certainly have done a lot of things correctly and must be pretty frustrated at this point. i feel your pain and many of us have "been there."
you are short more than 100 rhp at 18 psi.
first off, i recommend you download the DynoJet WinPep software and have the tuner send you all the files. you can then change the settings and better understand what is happening. (you could also send them to me for a look)
what is the smoothing setting on the recent graph? it looks wiggly around peak tq/peak cylinder fill. less wiggles before and after max fill further points to misfires.
after looking more carefully at the dyno data and your logs it should be reasonable to find the problem.
let's see your dyno sheet at zero smoothing. what were your IATs? if there is a constriction in your flow it will show up as elevated IAT as the turbo will need to work harder which raises T out of the comp. let's see the plugs.
i use 200 hp as a benchmark to evaluate initial power. before the very fast spooling EFR8374 200 was generally reached between 4000 and 4400. you are around 4250 but using the EFR 8374. perhaps when you find the 100 hp you will also find the missing spool up..
let's find the hundred hp
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 04-05-23 at 07:49 AM.
you certainly have done a lot of things correctly and must be pretty frustrated at this point. i feel your pain and many of us have "been there."
you are short more than 100 rhp at 18 psi.
first off, i recommend you download the DynoJet WinPep software and have the tuner send you all the files. you can then change the settings and better understand what is happening. (you could also send them to me for a look)
what is the smoothing setting on the recent graph? it looks wiggly around peak tq/peak cylinder fill. less wiggles before and after max fill further points to misfires.
after looking more carefully at the dyno data and your logs it should be reasonable to find the problem.
let's see your dyno sheet at zero smoothing. what were your IATs? if there is a constriction in your flow it will show up as elevated IAT as the turbo will need to work harder which raises T out of the comp. let's see the plugs.
i use 200 hp as a benchmark to evaluate initial power. before the very fast spooling EFR8374 200 was generally reached between 4000 and 4400. you are around 4250 but using the EFR 8374. perhaps when you find the 100 hp you will also find the missing spool up..
let's find the hundred hp
thank you, yes its been VERY frustraing to say the least, ambient temps were near 90f, i want to say temps were mostly under 120f in manifold with thermoprobe?
i will try to get those dyno files today and see, i honestly am stumped
smoothing was set to 5
if all that checks out, its time to look at pressures. its usually pretty easy to get pressure at the turbo and the intake, and you see the pressure drop (yours should be low, 2-3 psi)
next you want to check the exhaust, i made a little thing with an O2 sensor plug. again you want ~3psi or so. less is better, but also probably louder
and then the 3rd part, which is not as easy is the pre turbo pressure, if its more than 3psi over intake manifold pressure you loose power (so at 14psi of boost, you want 17psi or less).
it is ok (imo) to trade some power for response, but you can only go so far before the engine isn't happy.
if its missing 100hp, there will be something amiss somewhere!
I been logging emails from the egr port behind acv block off on inside of LIM
pressures have been mostly lower or close to IMAP. I think if above it was barely
Could it be a Haltech issue? I've heard and read some stories in the past on forums that some products in the past had issues regarding ignition.
Have you leak tested intercooler?
Is this the same dynoshop as original posts? Could the settings in the dyno software be skewed so it reads low? Not sure if the Dyno jet can be loaded with resistance or how that would play into your number readings.
here are pictures of my coil grounding
one per rotor housing (where it fires to)
and the chassis ground for coil I put on a battery stud in engine bay and I ran a 4 gauge cable from that stud to negative battery terminal inside car
Alex sent me his dyno files so i was able to take a closer look.
here is a run set at max smoothing... this is the setting often offered by shops as it looks happy. if you look a bit closer you do see something hiding under the smoothing.
the next step is to change the smoothing to zero... another picture emerges... yikes
this is clearly ignition misfires. if the AFR was off you would still get a smooth power line. if there was a boost leak you would still get a smooth powerline. not to say that there could be other factors present once you fix the misfires but the misfires are the cause of the sawtooth pattern and loss of power.
notice how the powerline is smooth until about 3750... this is because there is modest combustion chamber pressure. the torque line, which is the driver for power, was heading up at a nice clip until misfires start.
a properly running engine at zero smoothing should present a powerline similar to Alex's at max smoothing.
this should be easy to fix... just check everything electrical
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 04-06-23 at 07:20 AM.
were all the runs like this? also does it show air/fuel ratios on the bottom?////////////// yes all runs similar. you should get our files from your original dyno session although they will probably look similar. yes, i could have added AFRs but they were fine
and by electrical should I focus solely on the wiring to coils or also body/engine?///////////simple stuff first. plug gap .023, plug wires resistance per foot as was already posted wiring around coils then ecu
I posted pictures above of My ignition coil grounding/power
also opinions on if i did something wrong there?//////////// can't be of much help other than to point you in the direction
I will check resistance on wires.this weekend
plugs were gapped to .023
least I kinda have a path, and bow I know it's doing it under pump fuel only as well thank you
hmm 2 thing i shoud say (not sure if it can cause an issue or not)
1. i did slightly over premix on fuel. used 8 ozs when i did 11 gallons of fresh fuel on accident
2. when I put new spark plugs on i did use dielectric grease on the tip of plug (where spark plug boot goes on) and some of porcelain area again near tip of boot
then I added a dab of it in actual spark plug boot to ease installation and I heard it helps prevent spark leakage?
here are all your runs... the last 3 which show higher early power were at a diff boost as i recall. the pattern of the misfires is a bit different. perhaps someone may have the answer. the grease and premix aren't a problem
Wishful thinking, but is it something simple like having the leading and trailing to the coils flip flopped? Dwell settings? In the Haltech, I assume its set for direct fire and not waste spark?
Dielectric grease is an insulator and doesn't conduct electricity. It's a good idea in my experience with the IGN-1A coils to use dielectric grease but only a thin coating on the porcelain of the plugs. I absolutely wouldn't apply it to the tips of the plugs or anywhere near the metal clip inside the plug boots. Would be easy fix if this were your problem
What wideband controller and sensor is being used? Would a heat sink on the bung cause a leaner than actual reading? I've read that certain controllers read differently. Say an Innovate reads 13 at idle, swap them out and an AEM reads 14 at idle, all other variables constant. Is there documentation of this? A full point leaner in AFR, say 10.8 on Innovate would be 9.8 on AEM. So if using the AEM, you would need to lean out a full point to re gain target AFR. Any good tuner could verify this by looking at the fuel cell table. Then you get into differences between injectors.
I'm also using the innovate controller, and have been told by my tuner in the past to change to either internal module or something else.
What wideband controller and sensor is being used? Would a heat sink on the bung cause a leaner than actual reading? I've read that certain controllers read differently. Say an Innovate reads 13 at idle, swap them out and an AEM reads 14 at idle, all other variables constant. Is there documentation of this? A full point leaner in AFR, say 10.8 on Innovate would be 9.8 on AEM. So if using the AEM, you would need to lean out a full point to re gain target AFR. Any good tuner could verify this by looking at the fuel cell table. Then you get into differences between injectors.
I'm also using the innovate controller, and have been told by my tuner in the past to change to either internal module or something else.
Alex asked for a normal zero smoother dyno graph. i have hundreds and just picked one that is representative.
for those looking to learn more from their dyno sessions i suggest you download the dyno software and then ask for your files. further, when you are doing a dyno session i suggest you make sure your tuner is looking at your data zero smoothed. another somewhat unimportant (but pet peeve of mine) aspect of dyno settings is the type of "Correction." there are generally two. Standard and SAE. the environmental assumptions differ. if you want to show a bigger power number you click on STD and presto, 3% more power. in this case it would have added 17 hp. SAE is what is the proper correction used by OE etc... STD is some what shops use to create happier customers.
Alex asked for a normal zero smoother dyno graph. i have hundreds and just picked one that is representative.
for those looking to learn more from their dyno sessions i suggest you download the dyno software and then ask for your files. further, when you are doing a dyno session i suggest you make sure your tuner is looking at your data zero smoothed. another somewhat unimportant (but pet peeve of mine) aspect of dyno settings is the type of "Correction." there are generally two. Standard and SAE. the environmental assumptions differ. if you want to show a bigger power number you click on STD and presto, 3% more power. in this case it would have added 17 hp. SAE is what is the proper correction used by OE etc... STD is some what shops use to create happier customers.
wow pretty crazy the difference
weird thing is, the car feels great to me when driving. I'm not really feeling those misfires, is that normal?
I did fuel the misfires badly when injecting meth, must had been stupid rich and spark couldn't keep up?
04-05-23, 06:05 AM
