My T04R FC: Changes/Updates for 2008
07-29-08, 07:24 AM
#101
Switching to the FD front cover isn't extremely complex on the FC - teh most difficult part is changing the front lower section where it bolts to the oil pan as FD's and FC's oil pans are different contours at the front. But a flat piece can be welded on and tapped after some material has been milled off the front cover.
Also, the FD and FC front hubs have minor differences in the location of their keyways, so a little adjustment must be made afterwards to mantain the correct TDC.
EDIT: Also forgot it requires you run the FD waterpump as the trigger wheel would interfere with the FC version. So in retrospect, its not that easy lol
Also, the FD and FC front hubs have minor differences in the location of their keyways, so a little adjustment must be made afterwards to mantain the correct TDC.
EDIT: Also forgot it requires you run the FD waterpump as the trigger wheel would interfere with the FC version. So in retrospect, its not that easy lol
Last edited by classicauto; 07-29-08 at 07:32 AM.
07-29-08, 08:21 AM
#102
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I'm currently looking for ways to implement the actual trigger wheel and pickups onto the FC front cover.
Switching to the FD front cover isn't extremely complex on the FC - teh most difficult part is changing the front lower section where it bolts to the oil pan as FD's and FC's oil pans are different contours at the front. But a flat piece can be welded on and tapped after some material has been milled off the front cover.
Also, the FD and FC front hubs have minor differences in the location of their keyways, so a little adjustment must be made afterwards to mantain the correct TDC.
EDIT: Also forgot it requires you run the FD waterpump as the trigger wheel would interfere with the FC version. So in retrospect, its not that easy lol
Also, the FD and FC front hubs have minor differences in the location of their keyways, so a little adjustment must be made afterwards to mantain the correct TDC.
EDIT: Also forgot it requires you run the FD waterpump as the trigger wheel would interfere with the FC version. So in retrospect, its not that easy lol
If anyone has any information on how this can be accomplished, um, help a brotha out....
07-29-08, 04:32 PM
#103
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/3...eel-p-181.html
There's a 36-1 wheel. DIY autotune has various sizes. 5 1/2" is about perfect, but they don't list one that size.
Haltech lists halleffect sensor's and rare earth magnets for a pickup, but I'm not entirely sure how you'd hook it all together. Probably Ludwig or a Haltech rep can answer that though...
Mounting is really pretty much up to you. Where you have sapce around the front cover on your particular setup is going to dictate the sensor position, and wheel position will be relative to that (for TDC)
There's a 36-1 wheel. DIY autotune has various sizes. 5 1/2" is about perfect, but they don't list one that size.
Haltech lists halleffect sensor's and rare earth magnets for a pickup, but I'm not entirely sure how you'd hook it all together. Probably Ludwig or a Haltech rep can answer that though...
Mounting is really pretty much up to you. Where you have sapce around the front cover on your particular setup is going to dictate the sensor position, and wheel position will be relative to that (for TDC)
07-29-08, 04:43 PM
#104
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/3...eel-p-181.html
There's a 36-1 wheel. DIY autotune has various sizes. 5 1/2" is about perfect, but they don't list one that size.
There's a 36-1 wheel. DIY autotune has various sizes. 5 1/2" is about perfect, but they don't list one that size.
Unfortunately Haltech doesn't and won't support the Motronic wheels for the rotary application. It's a shame because they're the easiest to fabricate. Not always the easiest to make work right but simple enough to install.
Looks like we might be going this route after all.
07-29-08, 06:28 PM
#105
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This is from the installation manual of my soon to be ECU , maybe it can help.
8.2.3 – IGNITION SUPPRESSION
Without exception ALL ignition systems must be suppressed.
Failure to do so may cause the ECU to behave erratically,
especially at high power. Symptoms include misfiring, erratic
RPM readings and the ECU performing repetitive resets. The
following rules must be followed:
● Unsuppressed H.T. leads act as aerials and radiate very
powerful interference signals. ALL applications must use
suppression leads, preferably resistance type rather than
spiral wound or inductive. Typically these vary from 1000
ohms to 5000 ohms depending on lead length. NEVER
use plain wire leads.
● ALL applications must also employ a suppressor capacitor
(0.5 - 3uF) connected directly between the ignition coil(s)
POSITIVE terminal and ground. Most points condensers
are suitable. Multiple coils can share a single suppressor.
‘V’ and boxer engines with multiple coils must have a
suppressor on each bank.
● Isolate the ignition system as much as possible from other
sensitive devices, especially the ECU. Do not run nonignition
related wiring close to igniters, coils or HT leads
wherever possible. Maintain maximum distance from
radio transmitters and coaxial cables etc.
● Always use resistor spark plugs. These can be checked
by measuring the resistance between the top of the spark
plug and the centre electrode. On a resistor plug the
resistance will be several thousand ohms.
● If insufficient ignition energy is causing a high-power
misfire (especially on turbo/super charged engines), it may
be necessary to reduce the spark plug gap. Gaps as
small as 0.5mm (.020') may be necessary. This also
reduces the amount of radiated electrical noise due to the
lower firing voltage.
● Keep the input wiring to the igniter (from the ECU)
separate from the output wiring of the igniter (to the coil(s))
8.2.3 – IGNITION SUPPRESSION
Without exception ALL ignition systems must be suppressed.
Failure to do so may cause the ECU to behave erratically,
especially at high power. Symptoms include misfiring, erratic
RPM readings and the ECU performing repetitive resets. The
following rules must be followed:
● Unsuppressed H.T. leads act as aerials and radiate very
powerful interference signals. ALL applications must use
suppression leads, preferably resistance type rather than
spiral wound or inductive. Typically these vary from 1000
ohms to 5000 ohms depending on lead length. NEVER
use plain wire leads.
● ALL applications must also employ a suppressor capacitor
(0.5 - 3uF) connected directly between the ignition coil(s)
POSITIVE terminal and ground. Most points condensers
are suitable. Multiple coils can share a single suppressor.
‘V’ and boxer engines with multiple coils must have a
suppressor on each bank.
● Isolate the ignition system as much as possible from other
sensitive devices, especially the ECU. Do not run nonignition
related wiring close to igniters, coils or HT leads
wherever possible. Maintain maximum distance from
radio transmitters and coaxial cables etc.
● Always use resistor spark plugs. These can be checked
by measuring the resistance between the top of the spark
plug and the centre electrode. On a resistor plug the
resistance will be several thousand ohms.
● If insufficient ignition energy is causing a high-power
misfire (especially on turbo/super charged engines), it may
be necessary to reduce the spark plug gap. Gaps as
small as 0.5mm (.020') may be necessary. This also
reduces the amount of radiated electrical noise due to the
lower firing voltage.
● Keep the input wiring to the igniter (from the ECU)
separate from the output wiring of the igniter (to the coil(s))
07-31-08, 12:35 PM
#106
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True Story 
Thanks for the info! What ECU is this from?
I can see where some of these things could be helpful, but also think that there really isn't a way around the others (depending on the setup).
This is from the installation manual of my soon to be ECU , maybe it can help.
8.2.3 – IGNITION SUPPRESSION
Without exception ALL ignition systems must be suppressed.
Failure to do so may cause the ECU to behave erratically,
especially at high power. Symptoms include misfiring, erratic
RPM readings and the ECU performing repetitive resets. The
following rules must be followed:
● Unsuppressed H.T. leads act as aerials and radiate very
powerful interference signals. ALL applications must use
suppression leads, preferably resistance type rather than
spiral wound or inductive. Typically these vary from 1000
ohms to 5000 ohms depending on lead length. NEVER
use plain wire leads.
● ALL applications must also employ a suppressor capacitor
(0.5 - 3uF) connected directly between the ignition coil(s)
POSITIVE terminal and ground. Most points condensers
are suitable. Multiple coils can share a single suppressor.
‘V’ and boxer engines with multiple coils must have a
suppressor on each bank.
● Isolate the ignition system as much as possible from other
sensitive devices, especially the ECU. Do not run nonignition
related wiring close to igniters, coils or HT leads
wherever possible. Maintain maximum distance from
radio transmitters and coaxial cables etc.
● Always use resistor spark plugs. These can be checked
by measuring the resistance between the top of the spark
plug and the centre electrode. On a resistor plug the
resistance will be several thousand ohms.
● If insufficient ignition energy is causing a high-power
misfire (especially on turbo/super charged engines), it may
be necessary to reduce the spark plug gap. Gaps as
small as 0.5mm (.020') may be necessary. This also
reduces the amount of radiated electrical noise due to the
lower firing voltage.
● Keep the input wiring to the igniter (from the ECU)
separate from the output wiring of the igniter (to the coil(s))
8.2.3 – IGNITION SUPPRESSION
Without exception ALL ignition systems must be suppressed.
Failure to do so may cause the ECU to behave erratically,
especially at high power. Symptoms include misfiring, erratic
RPM readings and the ECU performing repetitive resets. The
following rules must be followed:
● Unsuppressed H.T. leads act as aerials and radiate very
powerful interference signals. ALL applications must use
suppression leads, preferably resistance type rather than
spiral wound or inductive. Typically these vary from 1000
ohms to 5000 ohms depending on lead length. NEVER
use plain wire leads.
● ALL applications must also employ a suppressor capacitor
(0.5 - 3uF) connected directly between the ignition coil(s)
POSITIVE terminal and ground. Most points condensers
are suitable. Multiple coils can share a single suppressor.
‘V’ and boxer engines with multiple coils must have a
suppressor on each bank.
● Isolate the ignition system as much as possible from other
sensitive devices, especially the ECU. Do not run nonignition
related wiring close to igniters, coils or HT leads
wherever possible. Maintain maximum distance from
radio transmitters and coaxial cables etc.
● Always use resistor spark plugs. These can be checked
by measuring the resistance between the top of the spark
plug and the centre electrode. On a resistor plug the
resistance will be several thousand ohms.
● If insufficient ignition energy is causing a high-power
misfire (especially on turbo/super charged engines), it may
be necessary to reduce the spark plug gap. Gaps as
small as 0.5mm (.020') may be necessary. This also
reduces the amount of radiated electrical noise due to the
lower firing voltage.
● Keep the input wiring to the igniter (from the ECU)
separate from the output wiring of the igniter (to the coil(s))
I can see where some of these things could be helpful, but also think that there really isn't a way around the others (depending on the setup).
08-01-08, 11:07 AM
#107
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08-20-08, 11:14 AM
#108
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UPDATE:
It's Alive Again....
I went down to Louisville, where Chris and I spent a couple days to revive this sleeping monster. We performed the planned changes/updates that I had for the car, but also ran into a few unexpected changes. One of them being that I needed a new front rotor. While stacking the motor, Chris pointed out that one of the corner seals was pretty loose. At the same time, he also noticed that 2 of 3 side seals were chipped where they meet the corner seals. We checked the face of the cracked front iron, but there was no indication of where the side seals had made any contact. Weird.
So, being that I needed a new rotor and 3 side seals, we were in a bind because
it was going to put a stop to our progress for the weekend. Chris had an FD rotor with all new seals ready to go from a spare motor that was on hand. I was fortunate enough that it was the correct weight and we threw in my apex seals and we were on our way. Chris had the motor stacked shortly after.
To make a long story short, we got the motor in the next morning, and began to work on the new ground wiring, along with cleaning up the existing stock power harness. Everything came together nicely, but when we went to check the timing, Chris noticed that the Hall Effect sensor wasn't functioning properly. I didn't get to hear it fire up before I left, but after receiving a good sensor from Haltech, Chris called me later in the week to say it fired right up and ran really well on the test drive.
At this point, I need to get a couple hundred miles on the motor (due to a fresh rotor bearing on the replacement rotor) before we can pick up where we left off on the tuning.
I can't stress enough appreciation for the time, work, help, and support that Chris Ludwig has provided during this whole ordeal. He definitely has a friend, customer, and promoter for life. I know that we are both looking forward to getting this to perform the way it was built for.
PLEASE VISIT WWW.LUDWIGMOTORSPORTS.COM FOR ALL YOUR ROTARY/HALTECH/TUNING NEEDS!
I took a few pictures (not as many as I should have):
Notice the New OEM front Plate (big thick upper dowel landing too!). mmm....yummy
Banzai Racing Oil Pan Brace (Nice Piece!):
Aeromotive 10 Micron Fuel Filter:
Tearing into the Stock Power Harness:
Ludwig Motorsports Custom Crank Trigger Bracket - (Info Here: https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/crank-trigger-setup-780396/)
Coming Soon:
It's Alive Again....
I went down to Louisville, where Chris and I spent a couple days to revive this sleeping monster. We performed the planned changes/updates that I had for the car, but also ran into a few unexpected changes. One of them being that I needed a new front rotor. While stacking the motor, Chris pointed out that one of the corner seals was pretty loose. At the same time, he also noticed that 2 of 3 side seals were chipped where they meet the corner seals. We checked the face of the cracked front iron, but there was no indication of where the side seals had made any contact. Weird.
So, being that I needed a new rotor and 3 side seals, we were in a bind because
it was going to put a stop to our progress for the weekend. Chris had an FD rotor with all new seals ready to go from a spare motor that was on hand. I was fortunate enough that it was the correct weight and we threw in my apex seals and we were on our way. Chris had the motor stacked shortly after.
To make a long story short, we got the motor in the next morning, and began to work on the new ground wiring, along with cleaning up the existing stock power harness. Everything came together nicely, but when we went to check the timing, Chris noticed that the Hall Effect sensor wasn't functioning properly. I didn't get to hear it fire up before I left, but after receiving a good sensor from Haltech, Chris called me later in the week to say it fired right up and ran really well on the test drive.
At this point, I need to get a couple hundred miles on the motor (due to a fresh rotor bearing on the replacement rotor) before we can pick up where we left off on the tuning.
I can't stress enough appreciation for the time, work, help, and support that Chris Ludwig has provided during this whole ordeal. He definitely has a friend, customer, and promoter for life. I know that we are both looking forward to getting this to perform the way it was built for.
PLEASE VISIT WWW.LUDWIGMOTORSPORTS.COM FOR ALL YOUR ROTARY/HALTECH/TUNING NEEDS!
I took a few pictures (not as many as I should have):
Notice the New OEM front Plate (big thick upper dowel landing too!). mmm....yummy
Banzai Racing Oil Pan Brace (Nice Piece!):
Aeromotive 10 Micron Fuel Filter:
Tearing into the Stock Power Harness:
Ludwig Motorsports Custom Crank Trigger Bracket - (Info Here: https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/crank-trigger-setup-780396/)
Coming Soon:
08-20-08, 01:56 PM
#111
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Considering I now have both front and rear plates with the thicker dowel lands (same size as an FD), and only running ~20psi boost levels, I shouldn't need it.
I used 4 Brand NEW Dowel pins in the motor as well. I'm hoping that with the addition of these and the Oil Pan Brace, it will add a little bit more stiffness to the block than I had before.
08-20-08, 02:48 PM
#114
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Yes, if you purchase a NEW OEM S5 TII iron, it will have the thick upper dowel landing.
Contact Japan2LA, he's your man.
The first plate I cracked was the rear. I was VERY lucky to find a slightly used rear plate that had the thicker upper dowel land. I honestly can't remember how much I paid for it a couple years back. Probably ~$200 for that one.
This NEW front plate was purchased for a price I couldn't refuse, but look up a new front plate on Mazdatrix's site to see what they go for....
Again, Japan2LA is the man.
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