in2twins

I am considering purchasing this turbo for my road race FC, I would appreciate any thoughts regarding power potential, and spool characteristics. Here is what I am looking at,Garrett GT40BB, 88mm 54 trim .72ar compressor, 77mm 84trim 1.19ar turbine oil cooled only(water cooled not available) divided T4 flange 3-5/8" v band.
The goal is 500+rwhp with full boost by 4000rpm, and max power by 6500-7000 rpm.
I am aware of all the other choices out there, I would like to focus on the suitability of this turbo for a high powered road race car.
Thank you, Carl Byck

in2twins

corresponding maps
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...postid=1716559

in2twins

The other map
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...postid=1716550

TYSON

Carl,

Is this from the guy who can somehow conjur one out of thin air, when everyone else has told you it's not available?

Have you called the big distributors listed on Garrett website to get their feedback on availability? Distributers, not retailers. After all, this is supposed to come directly from Garrett, so ADP Distributors for example should be able to tell you if they are available.

It also seems a little odd that every other Garrett 'GT' turbo released so far has been water cooled, both larger and smaller than the 40. Why would this one come without water cooling?

If you can wait until the 19th, I will be on a roadcourse with my 42. I can give you some direct feedback then. In the meantime I will be hitting the dyno and tuning.

in2twins

I agree it is suspicious, I would probably have a local pick it up. BDCs customer purchased one, so maybe he can tell us if it's the real deal. That aside, what do you think size wise, assuming it exists(aftermarket)? I am beginning to suspect it may be one of the Swedish GT40s, non-ballbearing, out of a Volvo truck. The GT40BB does exist, Ford is using them in Europe. As for the majors, I have not spoken to them lately, I will give some a call. As for the GT42, too rich for my blood, I will go a Preciscion PT67H (Q trim TO4R) if this turns out to be a hoax. Carl Byck

TYSON

While I was typing that I was on the phone with ADP here in the Toronto area. The guy I talked to (his name was Carl, by the way ) is calling Garrett in the morning for me / you. He could look at Garrett's stock from his own computer, and showed none for the part numbers you are looking for. We were both looking off the turbobygarrett.com catalogue at the same time, so there should be no mix-up. He is checking on full ball bearing GT40 and whether it is water cooled or not.

How will Brian's customer be able to tell? If the guy tells me no water cooling, he could hand me almost any T04 he puts together and tell me it was a GT40. Externally, I don't think I could tell. By how easy it is to turn, of course, but if he gets one from Turbonetics?

BTW, you can buy direct from ADP. Check them out, might save you some cash.

in2twins

Yea, I just called Proturbo in TX, they are building GT40 turbos now. I am waiting for the specs. I think the Ebay guy is full of ****. The GT40 on the Ford XR6 Falcon is watercooled, this is touted as Garretts newest technology. That water cooled issue probably saved three or four of us from getting ripped royally. Let me know on this guy from ADP. I really appreciate your help on this. Carl

Also I still would like to hear some input on the sizing of this turbo, Anyone?

carx7

iTrader: (31)

Couple of thoughts:

Brian's guy, Tony, didn't get that turbo. Here is his latest post on all that:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=183676

So it looks like he's looking for the borg warner S300 which, according to TEC is just large than a GT40 and the S200 is a bit smaller than the GT40. Jim, whom I spoke to at TEC (they are listed on Garrett's catalog as a distributor) was completely against the BB turbo's and wanted to sell me an S200 series for $635.xx. I don't think I"m that interested.

I am still curious about the Gt40 so please keep me updated. I was really looking for a divided housing with a 4" V-band. I still belive in the Gt42 and can't wait to see your results Tyson. I'm just not convinced I really want to drop that $$$'s on a turbo. I may end up with a Gt35/40 the way all this seems to be heading. The Pt67 certianly seems like a viable option as well.

I'm arguing with myself about spool of 1.19 divided Gt40 vs. a .94 undivded from Precision...

-Chris

87GTR

iTrader: (61)

The GT40 is no a BB turbo. they dont sell that turbo any more it has a new part number. I called them today to find out more about this turbo. they are going to have a turbo that meets the same specs and the part number is 5002
I was told it would 4 - 6 weeks away.

1 week ago I was told by them that they no longer make this turbo and there is no replace ment for it.


the guy I talked with today said 4 - 6 weeks it will have all the same spec as a GT4088

Carl Byck

The Gt40 is available as either BB, or not. There is a BB CHRA in the current Garrett catalog. The GT40BB is currently being manufactured as a complete unit by Garrett for the Ford XR6 Falcon in AU. It is an oil, and water cooled unit, Ball Bearing, on a cast SS manifold. I have a call in to Ford AU as to the specs and availability of that turbo. It is being used on a 2.8 liter six, and makes 60hp, and 70ftlbs of torque at 6.5psi of boost. The GT40 commonly available is a turbo assembled by Volvo for their utility trucks sold in Sweden. This is not a BB unit, but does share several similar wheel sizes. It is being used on inline six drag cars to make mid 500s at the wheels. The companies that tell you it does not exist, or that it is discontinued simply do not have access to it. I've been told the full GT40 is 4-6 weeks away for almost a year, now that they are being mass produced for Ford the availability should not be too far off. Carl Byck

Carl Byck

As an aside the only BB chra listed is for a GT42, where does that leave us on a GT3540?

Carl Byck

87GTR, what scared you off from RZM? I think alot ofthe confusion comes from the fact that the Garrett catalog contains things that are made, will be made, are no longer made, and will never be made ARGH. Perhaps I don't know ****, someone sell me a turbo that a streetport will spool by 4000 rpm, and make 500rwhp by 7000............(that costs less than 5000.00)

87GTR

iTrader: (61)

there is no bb chra listed by Garrett for GT40 in the current catalog unless it has come out in the past 30 min. the GT35 and GT42 have bb chra listed that you chan change to.

your right the GT40 is made for volvo truck.


http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_1613/article.html
http://www.ford.com.au/motorshow/Bri...sp?release=xr6
I know that the ford falcon in au has a GT40 roller bearing. but noone has access to that part number only ford. I have already had friends in AU try to get them from Garrett and ford with no luck.


I found this chra 700177-0014
but it for a GT3040
http://www.turbomaster.com/racing/ball_bearings.asp

or http://www.turbofast.com.au/GTseries.html
GT30
n/a
700177-0014
n/a
64
GT40
2.41/3.22
600
65
n/a
84
2.16/2.36


GT35 n/a 706451-0005 n/a 56 GT40 2.41/3.22 600 65 n/a 84 2.45/2.68


I found this also
http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/frost/tech.htm

but I have had no luck in finding a BB GT40 char number or any ref to it.


what is RZM?

in2twins

Rzm is the Ebay guy claiming to have BB GT40s, I don't know what he is selling, but obviously it is not the real deal. It maybe a different BB chra, with GT40 wheels. You are right about the Garrett catalog, but then what chra is in the 3540? The car in your last link appears to be a 3540 if you look at the hot side specs. I guess we will all keep looking, aunless a vendor wants to step up and guarantee 500rwhp, with a stated set of mods, such as Proper fuel, ignition, manifold, exhaust, and a stand alone. I don't know. I think plenty of guys are making mid 400s, and almost nobody is making more except for a couple of drag racers. Keep me posted, and I will do the same. Carl Byck

TYSON

500 RWHP is not the problem here, I think. You can get that with a T78. You don't need to go to all the trouble of hunting down an elusive turbo.

in2twins

O'k, I have never seen a 500rwhp dyno on this forum other than Crispeed. I have asked for these supposed claims to be backed up a half dozen times in a year, still no sheets. Lots of claims, no dynos. Not to mention dynos showing RPM, and AF ratios. So where are these claims coming from? How can you make a claim with no dyno? If you did dyno, why cant you post it, or at least email it to people who request it?
If......500rwhp is not the problem, then I will work with My turbo builder to make a turbo that will Spool like a GT3540, but run all the way up to 500hp... Do you think we can get close with a T66 1.00 q trim? Why do you say 500 is not the problem if no one can post it. BTW I know a bridgeport w/a T51 will do it, but I am talking streetport here. Not trying toargue, just looking for evidence. I have sent all the VE #s, desired RPM range etc to a well known builder, maybe he will say it is no problem, we just need to run more boost. I don't know, that's why I'm asking. Thanks for your input, Carl
Did ADP ever get back to you?

TYSON

I forgot to call him back today.

If you think Ray Wilson and Ari Yallon are running in the 9's without making 600 rwhp, you're dreaming.

People who have gone to the trouble of posting their own results of 425 rwhp at 15 psi perhaps have no burning desire to run 25 psi on the dyno and risk breaking their engine just to satisfy the demands of some guy on the internet.

People that are making considerably more than the average 425 hp are also in all likelyhood using their car for competitive purposes. Why would they post in a public forum exactly how to run the same speed they do?

And my last point. Everytime someone claims to have made a lot of power on this forum, they get shouted down. When they post a dyno sheet, they get accused of using nitrous. And when they post a video, they get accused of using a dyno that always shows an extra 100 hp. When they say they have a big turbo that spools fast, they get called a liar. What's the point?

Do a search of FORCEFED7 posts if you don't believe me.

AJC13B

A777 has run 10.0 @ 136 with a GT35/40 in a 1st gen 7

It is making 500+

I can show you a dyno sheet for a stock 69 VW Beetle that made 200kw.

The proof is in the pudding, not on paper. You will save yourself alot of time and trouble when you realise that

RICE RACING

BS!

Use a proper dyno either chassis or engine dyno and the proof will be on paper !!!! Track times do nothing but give generalizations and answer no questions in regards to the power an engine makes! All they do is show how fast a car combination is.

Drag times are good for drag racers! Period nothing else.

When you do an analysis on how many variables there are in drag racing you will quickly realize that determining Power levels from this is complete bullshit!

Weigh
Aero
launch
traction
gearing (inc number of shifts)
shift speed (clutch slip, take up time)
ambient conditions!

It goes on and on!!!!!

Go on a real dyno that is corrected to a recognized engineering standard (SAE, DIN, PS etc) and you will get a TRUE reading of what power that engine will make.

People who claim power from a 1/4 run are fools! There are far far too many variables to do this with any type of accuracy at all!

Show a corrected dyno sheet or otherwise don't claim ****! You are kiding yourself as you have no idea what the true power of your engine is, all you know is how fast your car is!

RICE RACING

Dyno's take out the "car" variable and the "driver" variable,+ the "chassis" variable, + the "ambient" variable (if corrected) what you get is what you got!!!

Nothing more Nothing less.

If you run Nos or some other **** to make your power you are only kidding yourself if you are claiming turbo ONLY power.

RICE RACING

There is a good quote from a guy called Paul Stanek (drag racer here) and he was profiled in a magazine. When asked what he hates the most he replied.

"People who quote engine power from 1/4 mile times/speeds & car weight!!!"

I though to myself there is a smart bloke!!!

Very true statement & 100% right from what I have quoted above in my previous posts, you either know how much power you have & can prove it, or you guess or lie about how much power you have!

Carl Byck

I am with Peter on this, he has presented a good dyno sheet and the specs on his turbo(thank you Peter). I have taken his info plus the one or two other dynos(Corrected) that have been posted in the last year(BDC, RX7.COM) in combination with various Ve, and flow specs on the 13B to give my turbo builder the info he needs to help me(and about 6 others) to arrive at a turbo that will do what we want. It's great that some people have arrived at the turbo that they want through trial and error. I for one do not have the money, or the expertise to do this.
I see no reason to work through two or four combinations to come up with what I want when a good turbo builder can spec it for me given the right information.
The reason I am constantly challenging the high HP claims is that I don't want to invest thousands in a system that does not perform as advertised. Look at the GT3540, it is still listed on every website that sells it as a 700hp turbo, yet no one has posted a dyno over the mid 400s. This is not a secret turbo combination run by a drag racer on the top of the pile, it is a garden variety turbo that does not perform as advertised. For all the owners of this turbo that bought it thinking they could make 500hp with it, I wonder how they feel now? sure they are pleased with the fast spool, but they now own a T3 manifold, and they are not making the power they hoped. Not to mention, if they seriously thought it was good for the power as advertised, they poured a **** load of money into peripherals to support it when they needed far less fuel, ignition, and drivetrain. Since A777, and others are making this power on a readily available turbo, it seems to me it would be a service to the community to post some sheets. No one is asking for confidential info, just a dyno sheet to show that a given turbo with proper support can make the power claimed.
Sorry for the rant, but I would like to see a hundred guys making 500rwhp, not two or three. Rest assured that when I do it, it will be public information, just as it is on Supraforums(ouch).
With all due respect(for those who deserve it) Carl

Carl Byck

BTW I searched in every possible way, and came up with about a half dozen corrected dyno sheets over 430hp in the last year....

TYSON

I know 2 people personally who can refute your claim that the GT35/40 is not a 700 hp turbo.

Both are on piston engines.

Both run somewhere around 30 PSI.

Both realize that "Hey, when they say 700 hp, they mean at the crank!"

They also both use the 0.84 A/R turbine to make that power.

Extreme Boost Is that close enough for you? Remember, 0.84 A/R exhaust housing. This car has made 650 RWHP with the juice, so let's not here the usual excuses.

When an online store gets a hold of a number, you don't think they won't use it, right?

I believe the HKS T51 SPL is a considered a 1000 hp turbo, and nobody's done that on a 2-rotor RX-7 either.

Carl Byck

Tyson, my friend, I am talking about shops that specialize in rotaries calling it a 700hp turbo. Actually Bryce Danna turned the wheels at 874rwhp, and the second owner at 862rwhp with a T51spl(supra). I think you agree with my point, that being just because a shop claims a particular HP, until they back it up with dyno sheets, it's just theoretical. It seems to me that shops catering to rotaries ought to list rwhp that is obtainable on a rotary. Many shops do this, more do not. I don't see you trying to make 700hp on a rotary with a 3540 now do I... Reputable shops generally give their customers realistic expectations of power for a given set up. If you look up a GT3540 under an RX7 appliocation, it ought to say 450rwhp with proper support, not 700hp. Anyway, this is off track. With all my posts, no shop(except Magnus to the tune of 4000.00) has come forward with a streetable 500rwhp set up. I have all the proper support for it, I am ready to buy, show me the turbo(and dynos)...