TYSON

It's still a 700 hp turbo. I don't believe they state it is worth 700 hp on an RX-7 In sales it seems it's not a lie if you IMPLY it, it's only a lie if you STATE it as fact! (Even then, some don't even draw that line)

An HKS T51 kit goes for $4900. Are you looking for a system that makes the same power, spools up much faster and costs far less?

Choosing the perfect turbo, creating the perfect manifold and putting together a package deal on it cost somebody money, don't expect them to tell you what they did for free. You've been shouting on here for months now for someone to do just that and then tell you how to copy it.

I'll let you know what ADP had to say.

Carl Byck

Actually, I've been shouting that I do not beleive many people are doing it (500rwhp). Few if any have said that they are. That said, I will share what I learn with anybody who cares, **** I do that everyday on the things I do know(suspension, tuning, basic TII know how, etc). I keep hearing that the guys making 500 or more are using some secret potion to get there, BS... They are using bridgeports, water/ alchohol injection, methanol, or very expensive turbo systems.
I think I can come up with a reasonably priced turbo that can make that power on a street port with readily available components, if those that are in the know do not want to share as you suppose, that's fine.
I know there is a good sized group of people who are sharing their knowledge, and equipped with that i will figure it out.
Contrary to popular belief I do have a sense of humor, I just keep it in a box by my bed
In the end I hope many will benefit from my antics, in the mean time you keep givin me ****, cause I don't get enough from my wife for sitting in front of the computer for hours on end
In answer to your T51 question, YES... Later days dude

Carl Byck

BTW, NO direspect to AJC13B, A777, OR YOGI, I know you guys are doing it, it just takes us Yanks a little longer

AJC13B

Rice - You can take any variable you want and stick it up your **** Its pretty simply physics. It takes 1hp to move 550lbs, 1 foot in 1 second.

Therefore, at the most basic level, to move a car that weighs 2500lbs 1320 feet (1/4 mile) in 10 seconds takes 495hp.

So what does that mean? At a bare minumim, to move a car that weighs 2500lbs 1320feet in 10.0 seconds, you MUST HAVE 495hp.

Does anyone have proof to the contrary of this statement? Does anyone have proof that the basic fundamental explanation of HP is incorrect as stated just about anywhere?

Carl - You have asked everywhere about your 'perfect' turbo. You must have been searching for months. If you had gone and got yourself a GT35/40 months ago when you first got told, you would have had your own dyno figures to go off. You say you don't want to waste money on trying different cominations. How about you listen to what people have been telling you for months?

You also said that you don't agree that the 35/40 is a 700hp turbo. Why isn't it? Because no one has made 700hp on a rotor with it? So Garrett should say the 35/40 is a 700hp piston turbo and a 600hp rotor turbo? Sorry, it don't work like that!

The turbo is rated by Garrett to a HP max of 700hp. The GT30 is rated at 480hp. If I put that on my car, I would turn it inside out! But it makes the power I want doesn't it? The turbo Rice just baught is rated at 800+ hp. Does that mean he is going to get 800hp?? Not freaking likely!

10sec rx7

weel said steve,

the fact that A777 has run 10.08 on this turbo should speek for its self......

for a street/strip turbo they cant be beat,

RICE RACING

You have no idea!!!

Shifting time, traction and aero ALL play a part, a big ******* part so stick that up your ****

You and many others will be eating your words when I dyno my new set up

No need to put me down just because you have problems

RICE RACING

If your "theory" were remotley correct of real world performance it would keep accelerating at that rate forever!!!!

Aero Load is critical and your assumption does nothing to cover this, nor rolling resistance nor any of the other variables I mentioned!!!

Drag racing proves nothing but how fast a combination is, thats it.

Stick it on a dyno and you will see what power it has over what speed range period!

TYSON

Doood, your equation there is for vertical movement. At a constant speed. It has nothing to do with accelerating a mass horizontally.

RICE RACING

Get a 2300lb Mini van

v's a 2300lb stremlined car with a low CD

and see what times they do steve.

Thn see how long driver A takes to change gear v's driver B, or what type of tires he has or what weather conditions they are running in.

High altitude v's low high pressure (cludy or clear day) v's low all of this can make differences of up to +-8% in engine power on any given extreme not including positive or negative influences in fuel mixture which can change power by another 10%, then you have traction.........

there are too many variables!

And then the honesty of what weight a car was run at???

Stick the ****** on a dyno and lets see what it makes!

So where are all those american 500+rwhp gt35/40 sheets??? Why???
nowhere

AJC13B

You take everything to heart, grow up.

Its not my theory, its the basic explanation of horsepower. You disagree with what 1hp is equal to?

And you say the drag strip proves nothing, and a dyno does? And you say I have no idea? You once said to me, "Get out of the box you line in" or some stupid **** like that. Sure I could build a grenade engine that can make an obscene amount of HP for a quick dyno pull, but would it last 400m? Hell no!

Oh, and here is a thread that might interest some of you.

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...pic.php?t=6433

Tell me again what a dyno proves?

You can fake a dyno graph, you can't fake a quarter mile run.

RICE RACING

You take it to hart as well, I did not say it proves nothing!

I said it does not prove the amount of power you have, there are no SAE standars at a race track. You run as good as the conditions allow and luck allows!

It is not a true indicator of what actual power your engine has, it is a perfect indicator for how fast your CAR is in a straight line test

Best way to measure power and power spread is on an accurate dyno.

RICE RACING

Thats a top thread.

Dynojets seem very consistent.

As too are dynapack, the only odd ball seems to be the dyno dynamics (depending on which mode it is run it). But I understand your concern totaly.

It's is just that there are to many variables in track situation both external and internal (driver and car) that can influence the result and hence the "predicted power"

I think there is no issues once you know the dyno is set up right wether it is a chassis type or an engine type.

AJC13B

tyson - 1hp was originally meant about a horse' pulling power along the horizontal axis, wasn't it? I have never seen a flying horse

I think the strip is a better indicator for HP than a dyno is. Dyno numbers can be fudged, a quarter mile time shows you at the very minimum what your car is capable of.

A777 has shown what his car is capable of and if you don't agree that his car is making 500+ dyno dynamics horsepower, you are sorely mistaken. And we all know what the calculated difference is between a dynojet and dyno dynamics.

Back on topic - The GT35/40 is capable of making well over 500hp on a dynojet dyno. If your engine and/or tuner can't make it happen, don't blame the turbo.

RICE RACING

You can fake an orgasm too, but if I shoot my load on a chicks face it's there for all to see !

So to is a proper corrected dyno graph, if you feel the need to lie about it well then that person most probably would lie about anything !

a777

My ears started burning so I thought it was time to search the internet

I won't quote everyone but hopefully there are some answers below (or not!)

These are my thoughts :-

Dynos are good tuning tools.
Load cell dynos are very good tuning tools
Inertia based dynos are useful for what they are designed to do. They appear to be more repeatable too.

Quoting rwhp in Australia to prove engine power or even rwhp is ambitious at best. There are far too many brands of dynos, and far too many different operators, and far too many ramp rates, and different gear ratios, and far too many ways of strapping down, and far too many ways of etc. etc.

Most people love quoting peak hp, but this may not mean much at the drag strip (or the circuit). Is area under the curve better? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Going fast at the drag strip means you can go fast at the drag strip.

Does it mean you can lap circuit xyz in 99 seconds? of course not. Does it mean that on the street you will always beat a "slower" car? Of course not. Does it mean that if you did a rolling start from 60mph that you would beat that V8 that has the same PB as you? of course not. Does a car with a 10 second ET have more power than a car with an 11 second ET? Of course not!

Can you dyno and make 500rwhp and run 10.5 and then dyno and make 470rwhp and run 10.1? Of course!

If you like dyno figures, more power to you. If you want to compare cars based on dyno figures, good luck to you.

Personally, I don't like dyno numbers. To me they mean very little. They can be sometimes used to see a relative gain (before - after). But beyond that what does it MEAN? If you are faster on the street then you are faster on the street, if you are faster round the circuit then you are faster round the circuit, if you are faster down the strip then you are faster down the strip. If you have a higher HP number from one dyno sheet from somewhere it means very little to me.

As far as my car goes.

2647lbs FWIW
10.08 @ 136mph
137mph best
13B + GT35/40
Standard TII gearbox
4.1 LSD diff
26x8.5" MT

Feel free to make your own call

RICE RACING

In what mode Steve, shoot out or narmal mode ?

Shoot out I would believe it, normal DD mode NO way in Hell ! As a Dyno Dynamics reads higher than a dynojet when set up in this mode !

AJC13B

TYSON

This looks like it is aimed at me.

The equation is correct. Somebody once said 1 horse could LIFT 550 lb 1 foot in one second. This is using a pulley, of course. If it was the horizontal axis, was the weight sliding on the ground, or on wheels?

BTW, if you take your figures of 2500 lbs, 1320 ft and 10 seconds and plug them into the equation, you get 600 hp.

I'm not all that good with Photoshop, but I think it would be easier to type out numbers on the back of a grocery receipt than making a dyno graph.

RICE RACING

All we hear is excuses and NO dyno sheets of gt35/40 equipped cars having made an honest over 500+rwhp run on anydyno system.

Why?

Because it is by no means easy to do and in fact is very hard to do period, this turbo will never make more than 600bhp (engine power) (520rwhp dynojet) on a 13B in my opinion, untill someone anyone posts a sheet to prove otherwise.

I think every enthusiast should have their questiones answered by a dyno sheet to back up the claims of this turbo, to date there are none !

Quick spool great !
power from 2k great !
over 500rwhp ? Doubt full @ any pressure ratio on a 13B, maybe only in race trim with droped exhaust and race gas and realy leaning on it, who knows no one has ever posted a sheet nor has any vendor posted a sheet pertaining to this turbos performance on a 13B rotary either.

Node

iTrader: (1)

Will you damn Austrians stop sissying about!

AJC13B

Tyson - No, it wasn't directed at you. When I said a dyno number can be faked, I meant via corrections, not photoshop. A 1/4 run can't be faked if there are 5000 people that saw the run.

Rice - So how much power do you think A777 is making to run 10.0 @ 136mph in a car that weighs 2647lbs?

Yeah! Those damn Austrians **** everything up!!!

RICE RACING

From my analysis @ that weight and the data I have on his car set up in drag trim (traction level from 60ft time) shift time estimates, rolling resistance of tires, aero loading for a first gen body, power curve of a street port 13B etc etc, optimized shift points (you get the drift)

I estimate he has 550 to 565bhp (engine peak power) when he did that run if the run was to it's maximum potential (right shift points, good traction etc).

This would equate to about 478rwhp to 490rwhp in a dynojet reading.

All of the above is with an optomized launch method (in his test case 8000rpm) and quickest shifting possible with that trans using the clutch (inc clutch release/pick up time) and the resultant effect on ET and MPH. I did an estimate and with the data I had for his car achieved a 137mph trap speed and 10.02 sec time for a std temp and pressure day. (60ft time result was around 1.38sec, not sure how accurate that is???)

The power curve was a mimic of mine and an estimate of what a gt35/40(slightly higher around 5.0k to 6.5k) would be (closer to my power curve) so I think I am pretty close to on the money (If anything the peak of the gt35/40 would be lower, because of the higher average over the 3k usefull range while draging and using max revs). It would for sure not be over 500rwhp, but it's bloody close

AJC13B

Ok, so your saying that A777 is making around 490hp on a dynojet dyno? And dynojet dyno reads more than a dyno dynamics. I just need that point clarified...

carx7

iTrader: (31)

I must say that I am finding this post very interesting.
I stated some of this previously but I'll go again at some risk to my personal health from the sounds of some of these replies

Yes the 35/40 makes great power and spools fast. According to Marco and Tyson, the Magnus Gt42 with divided housing properly designed manifold and 4" exhaust spools almost equally as fast if not as fast, and "feels better/lighter" according to Marco, due to the large turbine and exhaust.


I also read previously someone mentioning that having riden in two similiar cars one with a T78 the other having a 35/40, that the T78 felt like it had a 50 shot of NOS on the top end as compared to the 35/40.
I have search high and low for this origional statement AJC13B but I can't seem to find the statement nor who said it, but I definatley remember reading it.
I would presume this to be a result of a smaller exhaust housing.


So with that said. It seems to me that the GT40 compressor flows well enough for 400-500 "rotary HP". Perhaps this compressor mated to a turbine section more like that seen on the GT42, larger, divided with a huge exhuast, would make for a killer turbo giving possible better performance than the already successfull GT35/40 without the huge top end potential (and hopefuly price) of a Gt42.

This is why Carl, and I, have been looking for this elusive GT40 BB. Stupid me didn't realize that not all the GT series turbo were BB, so I'm still waiting, and thinking and weighting my options.

-Chris

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

so who here races a dyno? lap times, it doesnt matter if you have 15,000hp its the laptime

mike