Borg Warner EFR 9180
^ I try not to post threads on unfinished projects. It avoids the long and drawn out multi year projects you see that sometimes never get finished. My thread will be up in the next couple months as my car is in the testing/drive/fix whatever breaks phase. Lol I'm not an expert fabricator and pretty much built everything I needed to make my car work the way it does. My fabrication inexperience and build errors is what's been delaying everything recently as I have to fix what doesn't work right after long drives. 
Last edited by t-von; Mar 20, 2015 at 05:53 PM.
....what an interesting way to start the morning Here's my 2 cents...
Being a mechanical engineer myself I have the utmost respect for HC and the time/effort he puts into trying to improve the "rotary condition". What he's doing takes a lot of time, and even more money, but his Achilles heel is that people take his theories as facts when his results often have proven otherwise. But I can guarantee that if more people had the drive that HC does to improve the rotary beyond what Mazda left us with we would have more available quality products that would help the rotary thrive.
The plain and simple fact is, despite only 3 moving parts, and the visual simplicity of the rotary, we often get stuck in trying to compare its performance and reliability to piston motors, when really, it's not a fair comparison from a design standpoint. HC may try 10 things and 9 of them might and probably will fail but if 1 succeeds and is a breakthrough then it makes it all worth it. Such is the life of an entrepreneur.
Not a jab at HC, cause I could care less if he fails or not. I wish him the best, and I enjoy reading his posts, just like I enjoy reading other peoples post.
Have yet to see HC prove or learn anything that wasn't already known and done. I believe that is the root cause of people's gripes with him because he spews theories over and over but brings nothing of value to the table. He's a retired engineer, I'm sure he enjoys the R&D more then working results, otherwise he would have just done what works and wouldn't invest the time trying stuff that is new to him and regurgitating bibles of theories.
Personally, I look forward to when he completes something successful but until then I'll enjoy the drama when the mods allow it happen haha.
thewird
Personally, I look forward to when he completes something successful but until then I'll enjoy the drama when the mods allow it happen haha.
thewird
Last edited by thewird; Mar 20, 2015 at 08:39 PM.
Have yet to see HC prove or learn anything that wasn't already known and done. I believe that is the root cause of people's gripes with him because he spews theories over and over but brings nothing of value to the table. He's a retired engineer, I'm sure he enjoys the R&D more then working results, otherwise he would have just done what works and wouldn't invest the time trying stuff that is new to him and regurgitating bibles of theories.
Personally, I look forward to when he completes something successful but until then I'll enjoy the drama when the mods allow it happen haha.
thewird
Personally, I look forward to when he completes something successful but until then I'll enjoy the drama when the mods allow it happen haha.
thewird
/thread
Have yet to see HC prove or learn anything that wasn't already known and done. I believe that is the root cause of people's gripes with him because he spews theories over and over but brings nothing of value to the table. He's a retired engineer, I'm sure he enjoys the R&D more then working results, otherwise he would have just done what works and wouldn't invest the time trying stuff that is new to him and regurgitating bibles of theories.
Personally, I look forward to when he completes something successful but until then I'll enjoy the drama when the mods allow it happen haha.
thewird
Personally, I look forward to when he completes something successful but until then I'll enjoy the drama when the mods allow it happen haha.
thewird
Either way, glad for some more technical stuff, compared to the other forum threads that get repeated:
"what is this bumper"
"click click start problem"
"paint for intercooler"
Quality of the forum and community has come down since I first joined.
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
From: Queensland
opinions are like bum holes............................ I see a lot of bum holes in this thread.
Might be time someone deleted all the crap out of here and ban both party's. I for one came to read what thread was about not see lots of bumholes
Might be time someone deleted all the crap out of here and ban both party's. I for one came to read what thread was about not see lots of bumholes
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 846
Likes: 14
From: hsv al
I agree with the above. However, there seems to be a life cycle to this type of information. Kinda like that old funny video you saw 6 years ago, even before youtube, resurfaces again and the majority is like " what a great video" BUT the OG's are saying reeeeepost.
So yea, while HC may bring up the old information that is still very relevant, he presents it in a manner that the "newer" users will understand. While the OGs are saying been there done that, didn't write the book because it was an understood thing.
And i still think this forum has the worst search function that i have seen, you are better off using google to search it for you.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 434
Likes: 16
From: Manassas
Google is a billion dollar company so it should have a user friendly search feature. Low budget automotive forums in general only need to be adequate. Persoanlly I've never had any problems finding the info I needed when searching here.
Whenever I've ever needed to search something on a vbulletin forum I type this in google...
This way it only searches the site I want for the keywords.
thewird
site:rx7club.com thing I'm searching for
thewird
Often times if I've started a thread asking a question and no one has responded. A quick Google search typically finds the empty thread that I've just started first try which always leaves me disappointed lol...
I know I'm not alone here haha.
I know I'm not alone here haha.
Can we please get back to topic! What about the 9180? Anyone have any results?
Its the best turbo for ~550 wheel on a rotary, if you track it use the new 1.45AR exhaust housing \thread.
Its the best turbo for ~550 wheel on a rotary, if you track it use the new 1.45AR exhaust housing \thread.
So would 600 wheel hp be out of its efficiency range? If I ever turbo charge my 20b, this turbo is what I was considering. I do however care more about response in the mid range vs top end power.
thewird
EFR 9180
GT4294
I believe you are partially right. I should have said the EFR 9180 will slot in between the larger and smaller GT42Rs (GT4294 and GT4202). I never did adjust to the new GT nomenclature/sizing.
Sierra Sierra Cosworth Evo technical consultant Eric Hsu actually compared the EFR 9180's capabilities to the larger GT4202.
The special thing with the EFR's is the spool time thanks to the gamma-ti turbine wheel. Let's not put magic power into it.
True. After the switch to the EFR 9180 the Sierra Sierra Evo's acceleration down the straight at WTAC picked up so noticeably the Japanese Cyber Evo team protested them for supposedly using Nitrous Oxide.
GT4294
I believe you are partially right. I should have said the EFR 9180 will slot in between the larger and smaller GT42Rs (GT4294 and GT4202). I never did adjust to the new GT nomenclature/sizing.
Sierra Sierra Cosworth Evo technical consultant Eric Hsu actually compared the EFR 9180's capabilities to the larger GT4202.
The special thing with the EFR's is the spool time thanks to the gamma-ti turbine wheel. Let's not put magic power into it.
True. After the switch to the EFR 9180 the Sierra Sierra Evo's acceleration down the straight at WTAC picked up so noticeably the Japanese Cyber Evo team protested them for supposedly using Nitrous Oxide.
Heres the thing. Last year I was researching going with a Gt40r for my hp goals. Looks like the 9180 will be a prefect upgrade to that turbo with faster spool characteristics?
EFR 9180
GT4294
I believe you are partially right. I should have said the EFR 9180 will slot in between the larger and smaller GT42Rs (GT4294 and GT4202). I never did adjust to the new GT nomenclature/sizing.
Sierra Sierra Cosworth Evo technical consultant Eric Hsu actually compared the EFR 9180's capabilities to the larger GT4202.
The special thing with the EFR's is the spool time thanks to the gamma-ti turbine wheel. Let's not put magic power into it.
True. After the switch to the EFR 9180 the Sierra Sierra Evo's acceleration down the straight at WTAC picked up so noticeably the Japanese Cyber Evo team protested them for supposedly using Nitrous Oxide.
GT4294
I believe you are partially right. I should have said the EFR 9180 will slot in between the larger and smaller GT42Rs (GT4294 and GT4202). I never did adjust to the new GT nomenclature/sizing.
Sierra Sierra Cosworth Evo technical consultant Eric Hsu actually compared the EFR 9180's capabilities to the larger GT4202.
The special thing with the EFR's is the spool time thanks to the gamma-ti turbine wheel. Let's not put magic power into it.
True. After the switch to the EFR 9180 the Sierra Sierra Evo's acceleration down the straight at WTAC picked up so noticeably the Japanese Cyber Evo team protested them for supposedly using Nitrous Oxide.
thewird
Last edited by thewird; Mar 25, 2015 at 07:54 PM.
EFR9180 -- 1.45 a/r VS 1.05 a/r tuned by Evans Tuning 2.2L Evo
^ That's just insane for a 2.2l 4cly to be make 700+ hp from a little over 5,200rpms and holding past 8k. 
I'm not use to seeing a small engine with that long of a power band in the top end. WOW!
I'm not use to seeing a small engine with that long of a power band in the top end. WOW!
Compare apples to apples please. The EFR turbo is a billet wheel so for an accurate comparison, you should be comparing the billet garrett wheel as well... The way Borg Warner represents their compressor maps is also a little tricky as it makes them seem bigger then they actually are. 60% efficiency @ 2 bar on a 4294 would be 95 lbs/min and the same on the 9180 would be ~87 lbs/min. It's a bigger wheel, it should flow more, there's no magic turbo's hehe.
I agree it is a better comparison, but GTX turbos were not mentioned.
BW maps extend to the maximum RPM they recommend running the turbo at. So, its not any kind of trickery, its a nice feature of the map.
I agree the larger compressor wheel made to the same standard (as the GTX wheels are) will flow more.
I also agree if we only look at peak numbers there is no "magic" in the EFR turbos and really no reason to purchase one.
When it comes to area under the curve I believe the EFR is "magic"- especially on rotaries.
I agree it is a better comparison, but GTX turbos were not mentioned.
BW maps extend to the maximum RPM they recommend running the turbo at. So, its not any kind of trickery, its a nice feature of the map.
I agree the larger compressor wheel made to the same standard (as the GTX wheels are) will flow more.
I also agree if we only look at peak numbers there is no "magic" in the EFR turbos and really no reason to purchase one.
When it comes to area under the curve I believe the EFR is "magic"- especially on rotaries.