Old guys with 12As club meeting
10-02-09, 12:25 AM
#7578
Mr. RPM
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kevin or anyone else that doesnt know bren, like crit said, inspect very carefully when you look at something whether it's bren selling it or anyone else. i'm not one to slander anybody, but i have had a lot experience with some people and a blanket statement saying that he is completely straight up should not just be taken as the truth. BEWARE of sellers you don't know... period (until you know they are good). i've gotten screwed too many times to just let that one slide.
on another note, quad... if you do turn it into a 4 port 13b, we've got a 4 port manifold that's studded for a nikki if you're interested.
on another note, quad... if you do turn it into a 4 port 13b, we've got a 4 port manifold that's studded for a nikki if you're interested.
10-02-09, 12:26 AM
#7579
Mr. RPM
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here's whatcha need quad.
http://racingbeat.com/resultset.asp?PartNumber=16476
http://racingbeat.com/resultset.asp?PartNumber=16476
10-02-09, 12:33 AM
#7580
Mr. RPM
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Listen to Mr. Michael Quad, he knows whereof he speaks when it comes to carbed 13B's. His retrofitted sleeper FB with a 13B and holley is a rocket. Why don't you just transplant the 13B into the Red Monster and get some bigger jets for your Holley? I'll give you a call about tomorrow after dinner.
Brett, that's SHUTTER valve, not SHUDDER valve. It shutters air flow to the rear rotor, it doesn't shudder it. But great suggestion, that could cause Kevin the Quad's symptoms, but I'll bet Kevin the Ace already disabled it.
Concerning Bryn, I bought a set of light weight racing rims from him several years ago. They were a good deal but I didn't like the way they drove (but I might have been imagining things, I do that). I explained the situation to him and he cheerfully provided a full refund, no problem. From the looks of his operation in Lilburn back then he does good work, he has a nicely outfitted shop and lots of parts, plus some nice RX-7s hanging around (that was 5 years ago, but apparently he still has a knack for finding nice 7's, that black one is a beauty).
Brett, that's SHUTTER valve, not SHUDDER valve. It shutters air flow to the rear rotor, it doesn't shudder it. But great suggestion, that could cause Kevin the Quad's symptoms, but I'll bet Kevin the Ace already disabled it.
Concerning Bryn, I bought a set of light weight racing rims from him several years ago. They were a good deal but I didn't like the way they drove (but I might have been imagining things, I do that). I explained the situation to him and he cheerfully provided a full refund, no problem. From the looks of his operation in Lilburn back then he does good work, he has a nicely outfitted shop and lots of parts, plus some nice RX-7s hanging around (that was 5 years ago, but apparently he still has a knack for finding nice 7's, that black one is a beauty).
81-85 12A RX-7's have a valve that opens on deceleration (by vacuum and a solenoid and the Throttle Position Sensor) to lean the mixture out for emissions. They LOVE to go bad ! We have heard of MANY unnecessary carb rebuilds due to this valve being bad.
The symptoms are a rough idle, and a "weird" noise on decel and/or idle. Various descriptions of the noise are: honking, whooshing, vacuum cleaner sound, etc.
For more info you can check this link - http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/shutter.htm
Quad from the picture it looks like your 12a has a racing beat intake manifold there is no shutter valve on it! It is on the stock intake manifold.
10-02-09, 01:12 AM
#7582
Mr. RPM
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A shutter valve does not control air flow to the rear rotor!
81-85 12A RX-7's have a valve that opens on deceleration (by vacuum and a solenoid and the Throttle Position Sensor) to lean the mixture out for emissions. They LOVE to go bad ! We have heard of MANY unnecessary carb rebuilds due to this valve being bad.
The symptoms are a rough idle, and a "weird" noise on decel and/or idle. Various descriptions of the noise are: honking, whooshing, vacuum cleaner sound, etc.
For more info you can check this link - http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/shutter.htm
Quad from the picture it looks like your 12a has a racing beat intake manifold there is no shutter valve on it! It is on the stock intake manifold.
81-85 12A RX-7's have a valve that opens on deceleration (by vacuum and a solenoid and the Throttle Position Sensor) to lean the mixture out for emissions. They LOVE to go bad ! We have heard of MANY unnecessary carb rebuilds due to this valve being bad.
The symptoms are a rough idle, and a "weird" noise on decel and/or idle. Various descriptions of the noise are: honking, whooshing, vacuum cleaner sound, etc.
For more info you can check this link - http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/shutter.htm
Quad from the picture it looks like your 12a has a racing beat intake manifold there is no shutter valve on it! It is on the stock intake manifold.
10-02-09, 01:45 AM
#7583
No distributor? No thanks
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Kevin, before you pronounce the 12A dead, you should let Ray seafoam your motor. He's lost a rotor twice now. The first time it was stuck side seals and he seafomed it back to health, even though all tests, including compression, pointed at a dead motor.
Unfortunately, there are very few people willing to tear down a healthy engine to rebuild before they **** the bed. Jeff20B is one of the few I'm aware of. The problem is that you can't see a failure coming - they run strong right up to the point that it's over. If it is in fact a blown rotor, then you're just battling with some bad luck, albeit on two fronts (the SE and the 12A). Keep fhe faith, and let us know if the 12A's been seafoamed.
Unfortunately, there are very few people willing to tear down a healthy engine to rebuild before they **** the bed. Jeff20B is one of the few I'm aware of. The problem is that you can't see a failure coming - they run strong right up to the point that it's over. If it is in fact a blown rotor, then you're just battling with some bad luck, albeit on two fronts (the SE and the 12A). Keep fhe faith, and let us know if the 12A's been seafoamed.
10-02-09, 05:41 AM
#7584
The 12A got one seafoam treatment yesterday, ran a wee bit better. Like I said, Michael is coming up from Statesboro to come have a gander at the car, and we're going to hopefully diagnose the issue. I'll probably keep seafoaming it, at least for a couple days, just in case.
Quad
Quad
10-02-09, 07:15 AM
#7585
God damn. Michael is a friggin' Saint! And he sure knows his Wankels, 12As and 13Bs (he built the ported 13B in his FB rocket). Quad you are in good hands. When is he coming? I will try to join the fun.
I'm with Crit on the cautionary stuff though, time to slow down, do some thinking and use lots of sea foam. Compression tests on BOTH cars are a must. What ever happened to that plan for a group by on that electronic compression tester that that guy in Texas has for sale?
Here's some links to some of my similar issues with the White One, which were caused by a combination of low compression on the front rotor and a bad shutter valve. Here's what it sounded like, ran very weak and wouldn't idle:
I checked the compression with Crit's totally cool compression tester and found weak compression on one face on the front rotor (the rear was fine) so I did the sea foam treatment, with lots of soaking over a period of about a week. Compression eventually was fully restored, here's the tester and the video of the start up:
It was running much better after the sea foam but still not idling, that's when I discovered the shutter valve was stuck closed. Disabling the shutter valve fixed that problem and the White One was ready to go for another 25,000 miles
Here's the schematic for you shutter valve engineers:
And the White One's 12A idling along at 450 rpm, with the old stock muffler that was starting to get holes in it (replaced soon after with the RB system)
Like Crit says Quad, Keep the Faith.
I'm with Crit on the cautionary stuff though, time to slow down, do some thinking and use lots of sea foam. Compression tests on BOTH cars are a must. What ever happened to that plan for a group by on that electronic compression tester that that guy in Texas has for sale?
Here's some links to some of my similar issues with the White One, which were caused by a combination of low compression on the front rotor and a bad shutter valve. Here's what it sounded like, ran very weak and wouldn't idle:
I checked the compression with Crit's totally cool compression tester and found weak compression on one face on the front rotor (the rear was fine) so I did the sea foam treatment, with lots of soaking over a period of about a week. Compression eventually was fully restored, here's the tester and the video of the start up:
It was running much better after the sea foam but still not idling, that's when I discovered the shutter valve was stuck closed. Disabling the shutter valve fixed that problem and the White One was ready to go for another 25,000 miles
Here's the schematic for you shutter valve engineers:
And the White One's 12A idling along at 450 rpm, with the old stock muffler that was starting to get holes in it (replaced soon after with the RB system)
Like Crit says Quad, Keep the Faith.
10-02-09, 08:18 AM
#7587
No distributor? No thanks
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That's not necessary - Kevin has both an S and a GSL-SE, so he's got a 12A and 13B, both with full exhausts. both cars have the exhaust manifold outlet at the same spot, so that header-back exhausts are the same between the two cars (except that the SE adds the aux port pipe).
If you do slot them, though, they both need to be slotted just over 5mm inboard, so that you slightly narrow the hole spacing on a 13B header. That'll get you onto a 12A block. In Kevin's case, he's got a stock exhaust manifold, which I have a spare of. No reason to cut his up.
If you do slot them, though, they both need to be slotted just over 5mm inboard, so that you slightly narrow the hole spacing on a 13B header. That'll get you onto a 12A block. In Kevin's case, he's got a stock exhaust manifold, which I have a spare of. No reason to cut his up.
10-02-09, 08:34 AM
#7588
i've always done away with those shutter valves. the only problem with using a 13b header on a 12a and vise versa, is that the exhaust ports don't quite match up with the header. i know it's only by a small amount but i'd probably consider doing it.
10-02-09, 09:55 AM
#7589
Ok, Lets clear some **** up, Im still having phone issues
There is no shutter valve, its LONG gone, Quad , I dont know what you have going against you ,but I never had any problems with that car, we (Crit,Billy,Mike) did a comp test a few months ago and it was fine, Ive seafoamed the car recently, ALSO, My buddy that gave you the tranny said you were driving pretty hard the other night when he saw you, coming from him that must mean you were all over it,lol, cause he drives like a ******* maniac! I think I told you to take it easy for a while to make sure nothing was gonna pop up and leave you stranded, because any car that sits more than its driven may act up when you start driving it ***** out on a regular basis ESPECIALLY rotaries! Dude Im sorry if its giving you problems, and I dont want you to think I screwed you, most of the OGTA guys know me very well and know I wouldnt do that.
There is no shutter valve, its LONG gone, Quad , I dont know what you have going against you ,but I never had any problems with that car, we (Crit,Billy,Mike) did a comp test a few months ago and it was fine, Ive seafoamed the car recently, ALSO, My buddy that gave you the tranny said you were driving pretty hard the other night when he saw you, coming from him that must mean you were all over it,lol, cause he drives like a ******* maniac! I think I told you to take it easy for a while to make sure nothing was gonna pop up and leave you stranded, because any car that sits more than its driven may act up when you start driving it ***** out on a regular basis ESPECIALLY rotaries! Dude Im sorry if its giving you problems, and I dont want you to think I screwed you, most of the OGTA guys know me very well and know I wouldnt do that.
10-02-09, 10:32 AM
#7590
On another note, you should give me whichever spare S4 wheel you've got. This red one on the FB isn't growing on me anymore, and since you and I've swapped steering wheels so many times, you should hook me up
SHUTTER SHUTTER SHUTTER lol
10-02-09, 12:27 PM
#7591
Yay, got my new tires mounted! Again, the Traction T/A tires are for sale...the Goodyears are for sale too but they've got maybe 15% tread life remaining and are starting to crack. $5 for each Goodyear, $25 for each BFGoodrich. Someone has got to need tires?
On a side note I paid $50 for mount and balance with hidden weights outboard and tack-on inboard. Now I'm perfectly balanced without the ugly all over my shiny lip! Also got free chinese lunch out of the deal. I love my gay shop owner <3 lol
On a side note I paid $50 for mount and balance with hidden weights outboard and tack-on inboard. Now I'm perfectly balanced without the ugly all over my shiny lip! Also got free chinese lunch out of the deal. I love my gay shop owner <3 lol
10-02-09, 01:47 PM
#7593
You've seen them, they're adhesive weights for the inside of the wheel stuck up behind the spokes on the inner rim. I just didn't want any tack-on weights on my lip, so he put those on the outboard so I'd be happy lol
What's sad is that only one wheel was found to have a weight on it...pass. side rear...it was one very small very crappy magnetic tape looking weight. All my wheels were WAY off balance. And I mean WAY off. Now they're all perfect.
What's sad is that only one wheel was found to have a weight on it...pass. side rear...it was one very small very crappy magnetic tape looking weight. All my wheels were WAY off balance. And I mean WAY off. Now they're all perfect.
10-02-09, 03:25 PM
#7595
Ray, that first video is very similar to the issues I'm having. I'm really really hoping that the issue is just a stuck seal, and that seafoaming the crap out of it will fix it. Trust me, the faith will NEVER be lost.
OG Kevin- I've driven the car fairly hard, but nothing out of the ordinary. I don't power shift (often), and I usually don't do but maybe 10-15 over the speed limit. I know you wouldn't screw me over.
As for what I said about Bryn. I never meant that he was a bad person, just that the car I received from him was less that I believed it was. I don't doubt that he checked that car, and made sure it was in good shape, just it had underlying issues that weren't found. I don't feel lied to, just ignorant. I just wanted to clear that up, seeing as I recieved a phone call from him this morning of him being quite angry at me. I don't doubt that he's a good guy, and he loaned me some fuel injectors which I plan on giving back at some point. (Once I have a car running long enough to drive me over there). I just got a car that was in trouble, but trouble that was unforseen at the time.
Today, Michael (I think that's who it is, guy from Statesboro) is coming up to both fix my 12A and get my 13B out of Mazcare's parking lot. On a positive note, Mazcare decided not to charge me a dime for any of my recent diagnostic work seeing as they still have no idea what the hell happened to it. So they're gonna kinda piece it back together, get me all of my old and Crit's spare parts, and just leave it in the parking lot for Michael to come pick up, and bring home with him.
Quad
OG Kevin- I've driven the car fairly hard, but nothing out of the ordinary. I don't power shift (often), and I usually don't do but maybe 10-15 over the speed limit. I know you wouldn't screw me over.
As for what I said about Bryn. I never meant that he was a bad person, just that the car I received from him was less that I believed it was. I don't doubt that he checked that car, and made sure it was in good shape, just it had underlying issues that weren't found. I don't feel lied to, just ignorant. I just wanted to clear that up, seeing as I recieved a phone call from him this morning of him being quite angry at me. I don't doubt that he's a good guy, and he loaned me some fuel injectors which I plan on giving back at some point. (Once I have a car running long enough to drive me over there). I just got a car that was in trouble, but trouble that was unforseen at the time.
Today, Michael (I think that's who it is, guy from Statesboro) is coming up to both fix my 12A and get my 13B out of Mazcare's parking lot. On a positive note, Mazcare decided not to charge me a dime for any of my recent diagnostic work seeing as they still have no idea what the hell happened to it. So they're gonna kinda piece it back together, get me all of my old and Crit's spare parts, and just leave it in the parking lot for Michael to come pick up, and bring home with him.
Quad
10-02-09, 05:06 PM
#7596
OK I get it, Statesboro is in Georgia, not South Carolina (I know what y'all are saying: Damn Yankee). So it's Georgia Michael, not SC Michael who's coming to Quad's rescue (that's right folks, GA Michael is not in jail after all!) To check on all this, I just talked to GA Michael on the phone, he's out on the road right now headed for Quad's and it sounds like there's something hauling behind the vehicle, so that might be the tow dolly. I still haven't figured out what GA Michael is doing in Statesboro though, that's down by Savannah and I thought he lives over in Douglasville, west of Atlanta. You youngin's are hard to keep up with and even harder to figure out.
Even worse you dudes are all named Kevin, Michael or Colin, with Colin spelled at least 36 different ways. Strange generation, your parents were.
Anyway Kevin the Quad, your faith is certainly being tested, hang in there. I still like the idea of popping your holley on your 13B and sticking that in the best chassis in your collection. This should satisfy your need for speed and the 13B may prove a bit more rugged. Plus you'd have a decent stock of spare parts, a must for any FB owner.
Even worse you dudes are all named Kevin, Michael or Colin, with Colin spelled at least 36 different ways. Strange generation, your parents were.
Anyway Kevin the Quad, your faith is certainly being tested, hang in there. I still like the idea of popping your holley on your 13B and sticking that in the best chassis in your collection. This should satisfy your need for speed and the 13B may prove a bit more rugged. Plus you'd have a decent stock of spare parts, a must for any FB owner.
10-02-09, 08:37 PM
#7598
Well, Michael has come and gone, and we didn't get TOO much accomplished. WE determined that the rear rotor HAS compression, just not a bunch. Still not wooshing, but it will hold an idle (very very poorly) running just on the rear. It's running a little better, but still not great, so the current treatment is seafoam directly in the rear carb barrel every hour or so. I've gone through one and a half cans, and have a full can I'm about to crack open. Michael said he talked to you Ray, and kind of gave you a heads up on what's goin on. I'm not too far past Holley-izing the 13B, but I'd rather be able to just sell it as a running fuel-injected 13B. Michael said he might even buy it from me broke or working. I don't know currently. I thought Michael was gonna bring the tow dolly to get it away from Mazcare, but it wasn't there. Who knows. So it's just sitting at Mazcare currently.
I'll post again in the morning, I'll probably be up till 5ish seafoamin this bad boy, hopefully restoring compression.
We did get some mighty pretty smoke though. I had a gut feeling the fire dept. would have been called. Luckily they weren't.
Quad
I'll post again in the morning, I'll probably be up till 5ish seafoamin this bad boy, hopefully restoring compression.
We did get some mighty pretty smoke though. I had a gut feeling the fire dept. would have been called. Luckily they weren't.
Quad
10-03-09, 09:24 PM
#7599
So I came close to wrecking the FB today- I was delivering going around a blind curb back in the woods on the outside lane, a gray Tahoe came around barely over the line, I swerved over, felt the rear snap out, counter-steered, went all drifto twice, then spun around trying to turn the wheels whichever way, and ended up on the side of the road straddling a ditch. Luckily I wasn't stuck, but I was freakkked out. These cheap tires suck
On a positive note, I used house weatherstripping to seal up the sunroof so it doesn't leak anymore. It's not ghetto looking or anything since it's thin and fits between the original seal and the frame.
But both windows are messed up- they've got to be pushed into the back tracks to keep them aligned coming up. So add that to the to-do list.
That is all. I want that steering wheel, Collin
On a positive note, I used house weatherstripping to seal up the sunroof so it doesn't leak anymore. It's not ghetto looking or anything since it's thin and fits between the original seal and the frame.
But both windows are messed up- they've got to be pushed into the back tracks to keep them aligned coming up. So add that to the to-do list.
That is all. I want that steering wheel, Collin