efiniT2

Hey guys i HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT P-PORT
FIRST OF ALL IM THINKING ABOUT THE RACING BEAT P PORT HOUSINGAND AM WONDERING IF ANYONE HAS HAD EXPERIENCE WITH THEM LIKE WHERE THEY IDLE AND POWER BANDS ECT. SAME WITH THERE P-PORT MANIFOLD. SINCE IT WILL BE A DAILY DRIVER(AND MY FIRST CAR I AM 15) I WAS WONDERING IF I TURBOED IT AND JUST RAN 3-5PSI IF I WOULD GET LOW END POWER. THE TURBOE WOULD MAINLY BE THERE FOR BACK PRESSURE AND CUT DOWN INTAKE VELOCITY. IF I GO N/A I WOULD PROB GO WITH A 48 OR 51 IDA CARB AND IF I TURBOED IT I WOULD MAKE IT EFI WITH MICROTECH. aLSO IT WOULD BE NICE IF I COULD GET SOMEONES AOL WHO HAS A DAILY DRIVEN P-PORT I COULD TALK TO.

YES I UNDERSTAND P-PORT ON THE STREETS IS VERY LOUD AND UNPRACTICLE.

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

CAPS LOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok #1 most peple don't like driving BP's on the street
#2 a 15 year old should not have a car that powerful, peaky, or unreliable.
#3 no 15 year old can pay for the moter AND gas.
#4 a microtech is to slow to keep up with a pp you would need a wolf3d, haltec, or motech

they idle at a looping 2000-3500 rpm. if you want to turbo you need to tell them so they give you the right housings.
90% of the power is from 8000-10000 some turbo ones pull till 12k
With this kind of motor there will never be lowend!

efiniT2

i under stand im 15 and i know all about handleing power ive been racing 100mph gokarts for 3 years and im just planning out what kind of motor i want i will not have the money for a good 2 or 3 years.Also ive herd of p-ports idleing at 1500 to 2000. Just cuz im young doesnt mean i cant pick up a wrench ive puta t2 motor in my bros car by myself and im welding a surgetank right now for a t2.So just cuz im 15 doesnt mean i cant plan out a engine for the future.

Dan H

Well, if you know the P-port is loud and unpractical on the streets, then why bother? Its not like you can use all of its power on the streets anyways. Even a 1/2 bridgeport is just barely streetable.

How much money are you willing to spend anyways? You'll need special seals, an expensive standalone ECU and the necessary support for the motor. Plus the "know how" tuning required.

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

i did not try to sound like an *** but. I would start off with a BP turbo you can get a lot more power out of them than a NA PP and it will probly last longer. then if you want more... go for it.
A pp motor costs to much to build just to find out you hate it. not to bring up the cost of a clutch safe at that high an RPM.
i have done the math in the past and it was not good.

PP housings $1675
Race Rotors $1150
Type II Modified Stationary Gears $530
Race Seals and spring $256
rotor clearancing $146
engine balancing $317
130 psi Oil Pressure Regulator $90
clutch & fly wheel = $1000.00
total = $5164
and that is not including an ecu or carb's and tune time on a dyno.
or $45 for a bp template and rebuild kit $1100

SaiyanJin93

I dont think there is any PP daily driven cars out there. That type of engine needs to be in the 8k and up RPM range to be of use, plus there life span is bare minimum....I mean min. I think that you should look into a half bridgeport and then if that doesnt work go full bridge, but to jump straight to PP I think it is a waste of your $$$$
If you want to spend some money and have a streetable car...get a 13bTT ..I have seen it in a 1stgen..2ndgen and even a rx3...so the options are there....if its streetability,power, and longevity that your looking for the PP is not the way to go.

MikeLMR

time and time again !! the same WRONG facts that people associate with Peripheral ports as the only PP engines that they have seen have had and agressive port timing as they are full race engines designed to pull the maximum possible HP at XX thousand RPM.

NSU however designed thier Peripheral Port Engine (which not only was streetable but was fitted to a production car!!!) to have lower overlap and therfor a lot better to drive on the street. Its all in the port timing and like a piston engine or a sideport engne you can go from mild to wild just be changing the intake/exhaust timing.

GUITARJUNKIE28

10k is about what i was thinking to get one done.
i've thought about it a lot for a future race car project, but wouldn't even entertain the idea for the street.

i've heard of guys getting almost 400hp on a completely stock motor. if that isn't enough for you, i don't know what is.

GUITARJUNKIE28

o yeah,
that was at the wheels too...

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Once again more wrong info on peripheral port engines. Regardless of how big you make a peripheral port or where you put it in the housing, it will still have insane amounts of port overlap. To make one streetable would require a pretty long intake manifold that would tune it to a lower rpm instead stratospheric heights. The other way to make one streetable is to make the ports small like NSU and everyone else back then did. Yes this limits the upper end but makes the low and midrange better. You need the intake velocity to keep low end power and a fairly low idle. The housings that Racing Beat sells are not going to idle low and are not going to give you good low to midrange power.

If you want to run a turbo on a peripheral port then you really need to run twins. Not the stock 3rd gen twins but rather a custom setup based off of 2 single turbos. 2 smaller turbos have less exhaust backpressure than even 1 very large turbo. Back pressure is your absolute enemy on a turbo car but even more so on a high overlap engine like a peripheral port. Mazda factory race cars in the '80s that wer bridgeported and turboed had twins. Racing Beat used twin turbos for its bridgeport Bonneville 2nd gen and tri turbos for its peripheral port 3rd gen Bonneville car. Marcus Williams here in Houston has alot of experience with single vs twin turbo setups on high overlap engines.

I don't know how you plan to run this engine on the street. We have emissions to pass here in Houston and you can cheat the system that bad. The engine will not idle too terribly well, will have poor low end power and will have a power peak out of the useful range of your stock transmission. If you really like an 8 mpg engine and love the prospect of refilling the gas tank every 125 miles or so then you'll love it.

I must ask why do you want a peripheral port engine anyways? There is no need to have an engine that makes its best power above 7000 rpm while 99.9% of all your driving will be done below this point. That will not be a very fast street engine. Just stick with a streetport engine or at the most a half bridgeport. Many people get 500+ hp out of these. How much more do you really need. Remember that wants and needs are different. Everyone wants a 1000hp rotary that gets 25 mpg, passes emissions and is civilized enough to be driven on the street but it just can't be done. You will get pulled over here in a second for noise from a peripheral port engine. Many Hondas get pulled over and the rotary is much louder. Regardless of what experience you have, you are a novice driver until you have driven a CAR for at least 5 years cleanly. These aren't go-carts you know!

chairchild

I'm also going to attempt to build a PP engine, but purely because I need something to fill my time, and it'll only be a SEMI-PP (1" ports, fairly high up)

diyman25

I had 13B PP fit in my 2 gen race car. THE car can be drive on street( I drove once to race track) but was not fun ATTTTTT ALL. the car was loud, a lot of smoke on low speed(pre mix). no TP under 4000. I flood the spark plugs after 30 miles.
Why PP engine got short life is because they spin at much HIGHER RPM. BUT THE 787B LE MAN RACE got at 4 rotors PP and drive up to 24 HR!!! and drive one hour on race track= 10000 miles of street mile. so 787B engine can surrive of 10000x24=240000 mile of street miles.
they only **** at 8000 RPM when they are in race

scathcart

I only **** [sp] at 8000 rpm when the car is in a spin and heading for the wall

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

diyman.... i some how dont think he was going to ceramic coat the whole engine. and the red line of the 787 was only 9000 rpm.

$150FC

fwiw 787b also has a variable-geometry intake system

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

yes. it was a real smart set up. the intake horns on the carbs would move to be longer at low rpm.

chairchild

I'm just sticking with some fixed-length runners (tuned for 6500RPM) and I'm using a kinda different setup, and I don't think anyone else has ever done anything like it either.

I'm using an SU carb on each PP, but with a "dead" SU right next to the housing - the dashpot will act as a choke and help low-down torque, plus it should help idle since it will effectively seal the PP at low RPM

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

how dose a dash pot work as a choke???
all a dashpot dose is slow the butterfly so it dose not snap shut.

and yes. if i under stand you right some one hast tryed using PP and side port at the same time. I think they used two 2" ball valves. the big problem was it cost more the 2 times that of a normal PP due to cost of making and tuning the intake.

chairchild

Well I can easily make the tuned runners, it's a purely straight inlet tract. The dashpot is located before the butterfly. It is essentially a choke - but If I smooth off the interiour of the SU, and remove/blank off any bits of the fuelling system and butterfly, the dashpot SHOULD act as an automatic choke AFTER the fuelling point - thus inducing a restriction in the runners, and hopefully improving torque.

i'm using the vacuum bit from the standard Nikki carb to actuate the two SU's, with an air-line lock to disable it if I want to

rxrotary2_7

these will be added to the line up soon. not ready, so dont to excited... YET.

chairchild

that's just a heated Holly inlet...it aint that much really - plus look at that angle on the primaries - it's pretty damn sharp! - I still prefer a side-draught carb on a rotary, you get a more direct charge

Kenku

Just for theory's sake, what about running a periperhal intake with the Renesis-style side exhaust ports? Would sorta get rid of the overlap thing, no?

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

non of us have the money to try it, but i would think the ports are to small to flow on a PP. you would need to port it out, and then there would be over lap. I dont know but this is just what im thinken.

chairchild

Or.......

You connect a "normal" rotary round the wrong way. ie: you have the inlet going into the exhaust, and the exhaust going out of some ported inlets (if you get what I mean). If you port the primaries into one big hole (no split between them) then that could help exhaust flow. A standard dizzy should work if you connect the spark-plugs round the opposite way, and set the ignition timing way earlier than stock. the only problem with this, would be that the flywheel now turns round the opposite way to normal, and you would have to modify a starter motor to spin the opposit way to start it

anyone got a bit of spare time on their hands?

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

If it runs backward then it will bolt up to a Honda Civic or Integra transmission and be spinning the proper direction.