NRS Rotorsports ceramic seal test results
08-07-08, 08:08 PM
#576
Anyways, the parts took on a spotty look to them. As if splatted with a paint brush. Essentially what appears to have happened is the origional tone of the part came back in spots due to the additional annealing time. The other areas of the seal lightened in color as it should but these origional color spots came back.
Needless to say, I won't be putting these out to general market. Sven
Needless to say, I won't be putting these out to general market. Sven
I really like experimenting. Can I like have 6 of those?
I'm getting ready to pull apart my 91 NA engine that has the regular RA seals.
08-07-08, 08:44 PM
#578
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 640
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even with spots they are stronger than what everyone is used to, a lot stronger.
08-10-08, 12:59 AM
#580
Senior Member
Sven, could this annealing preparation be made to corner and side seals then you really have something to sell to the die hard rotary power nuts worldwide!!
/Lasse
/Lasse
08-21-08, 09:32 PM
#584
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 640
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The new standard of excellence
As mentioned previously there were 6 pcs made in a special material that were annealed in the same run as the ones that became spotted. They appear to be completely unnaffected by the additional annealing time.
Here are the pictures of what will soon be NRS blue/grey ceramic power seals. They are absolutely UNREAL!! Expected flexural strength will be even higher than the 950 MPa on the spotted seals. Fracture toughness will be over 11.0 MPa!! An incredible increase in strength over a previously amazing product (origional grey seals). Imagine!
Welcome to a new realm of ceramic performance
Let the testing begin!
Any marks or spots you see in the pics are from my fingerprints or from the spitting rain as I took the pics.
Here are the pictures of what will soon be NRS blue/grey ceramic power seals. They are absolutely UNREAL!! Expected flexural strength will be even higher than the 950 MPa on the spotted seals. Fracture toughness will be over 11.0 MPa!! An incredible increase in strength over a previously amazing product (origional grey seals). Imagine!
Welcome to a new realm of ceramic performance
Let the testing begin!Any marks or spots you see in the pics are from my fingerprints or from the spitting rain as I took the pics.
08-31-08, 10:40 AM
#586
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 640
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Copied from Ausrotary:
These are all apex seal placed on a high precision surface ground reference block to check retention of shape on the most important leading edge of the seal, you can see not all are created equal especially when you discount the HYPE of talking about single digit methanol fueled 2 stroke model aero plane "smoke show" drag wonders running as much oil as they do fuel to make inferior materials go the distance (all 400 meters of it, a few times lol!) ..... these are all long term road/circuit cars run at very high power/stress levels. ***LOOK FOR LIGHT BETWEEN BLOCK AND APEX SEAL, more light = more distorted seal and less power and much less compression! how much power are you throwing away??? by listening to toilet paper quality promises of the "best apex seal thats unbreakable LOL***
ALL seals run with totally new parts, same tune up and a minimum of 100:1 fuel to oil ratio
Highest Quality NRS 2 piece ceramic seal in circuit race application BP Turbo car 600bhp *as new!*
Summernats winner Capella with another FAILED BHP steel seal "wonder product" can smash it in a vice with hammer but that does not equal durability in an engine LOL ! sub 60 psi compression
Next is a Mazda OEM seal, last much longer than the *wonder hammer smashable in vice heap of dog turd* but still = EPIC FAIL in long term durability testing ! 60 psi compression!
Yet another failure of a 3rd "amazing" steel product, so have vice, CNC, hacksaw, wire cutter and glossy web page promise written on toilet paper = well you know what you wipe you're rear end with
Carbon seal = rooted ! taper wear, chewed ends, bad wear on leading edge = very low power... All serious N/A racers only use cermaic apex seals, much better wear than steel, same weight as carbon, they don't rape rotor housings, and last forever in N/A application in championship winning circuit race cars. ***remember Mazda factory won the Le Mans 24Hr after implementing modern ceramic technology, to get over problems with steel (of which they make arguably the best most durable of this type of OLD TECH.) and carbon which simply loose too much power too quickly from new, and were not strong enough for all situations***
These are all apex seal placed on a high precision surface ground reference block to check retention of shape on the most important leading edge of the seal, you can see not all are created equal especially when you discount the HYPE of talking about single digit methanol fueled 2 stroke model aero plane "smoke show" drag wonders running as much oil as they do fuel to make inferior materials go the distance (all 400 meters of it, a few times lol!) ..... these are all long term road/circuit cars run at very high power/stress levels. ***LOOK FOR LIGHT BETWEEN BLOCK AND APEX SEAL, more light = more distorted seal and less power and much less compression! how much power are you throwing away??? by listening to toilet paper quality promises of the "best apex seal thats unbreakable LOL***
ALL seals run with totally new parts, same tune up and a minimum of 100:1 fuel to oil ratio
Highest Quality NRS 2 piece ceramic seal in circuit race application BP Turbo car 600bhp *as new!*
Summernats winner Capella with another FAILED BHP steel seal "wonder product" can smash it in a vice with hammer but that does not equal durability in an engine LOL ! sub 60 psi compression
Next is a Mazda OEM seal, last much longer than the *wonder hammer smashable in vice heap of dog turd* but still = EPIC FAIL in long term durability testing ! 60 psi compression!
Yet another failure of a 3rd "amazing" steel product, so have vice, CNC, hacksaw, wire cutter and glossy web page promise written on toilet paper = well you know what you wipe you're rear end with
Carbon seal = rooted ! taper wear, chewed ends, bad wear on leading edge = very low power... All serious N/A racers only use cermaic apex seals, much better wear than steel, same weight as carbon, they don't rape rotor housings, and last forever in N/A application in championship winning circuit race cars. ***remember Mazda factory won the Le Mans 24Hr after implementing modern ceramic technology, to get over problems with steel (of which they make arguably the best most durable of this type of OLD TECH.) and carbon which simply loose too much power too quickly from new, and were not strong enough for all situations***
08-31-08, 12:09 PM
#588
Copied from Ausrotary:
These are all apex seal placed on a high precision surface ground reference block to check retention of shape on the most important leading edge of the seal, you can see not all are created equal especially when you discount the HYPE of talking about single digit methanol fueled 2 stroke model aero plane "smoke show" drag wonders running as much oil as they do fuel to make inferior materials go the distance (all 400 meters of it, a few times lol!) ..... these are all long term road/circuit cars run at very high power/stress levels. ***LOOK FOR LIGHT BETWEEN BLOCK AND APEX SEAL, more light = more distorted seal and less power and much less compression! how much power are you throwing away??? by listening to toilet paper quality promises of the "best apex seal thats unbreakable LOL***
ALL seals run with totally new parts, same tune up and a minimum of 100:1 fuel to oil ratio
Highest Quality NRS 2 piece ceramic seal in circuit race application BP Turbo car 600bhp *as new!*
Summernats winner Capella with another FAILED BHP steel seal "wonder product" can smash it in a vice with hammer but that does not equal durability in an engine LOL ! sub 60 psi compression
Next is a Mazda OEM seal, last much longer than the *wonder hammer smashable in vice heap of dog turd* but still = EPIC FAIL in long term durability testing ! 60 psi compression!
Yet another failure of a 3rd "amazing" steel product, so have vice, CNC, hacksaw, wire cutter and glossy web page promise written on toilet paper = well you know what you wipe you're rear end with
Carbon seal = rooted ! taper wear, chewed ends, bad wear on leading edge = very low power... All serious N/A racers only use cermaic apex seals, much better wear than steel, same weight as carbon, they don't rape rotor housings, and last forever in N/A application in championship winning circuit race cars. ***remember Mazda factory won the Le Mans 24Hr after implementing modern ceramic technology, to get over problems with steel (of which they make arguably the best most durable of this type of OLD TECH.) and carbon which simply loose too much power too quickly from new, and were not strong enough for all situations***
These are all apex seal placed on a high precision surface ground reference block to check retention of shape on the most important leading edge of the seal, you can see not all are created equal especially when you discount the HYPE of talking about single digit methanol fueled 2 stroke model aero plane "smoke show" drag wonders running as much oil as they do fuel to make inferior materials go the distance (all 400 meters of it, a few times lol!) ..... these are all long term road/circuit cars run at very high power/stress levels. ***LOOK FOR LIGHT BETWEEN BLOCK AND APEX SEAL, more light = more distorted seal and less power and much less compression! how much power are you throwing away??? by listening to toilet paper quality promises of the "best apex seal thats unbreakable LOL***
ALL seals run with totally new parts, same tune up and a minimum of 100:1 fuel to oil ratio
Highest Quality NRS 2 piece ceramic seal in circuit race application BP Turbo car 600bhp *as new!*
Summernats winner Capella with another FAILED BHP steel seal "wonder product" can smash it in a vice with hammer but that does not equal durability in an engine LOL ! sub 60 psi compression
Next is a Mazda OEM seal, last much longer than the *wonder hammer smashable in vice heap of dog turd* but still = EPIC FAIL in long term durability testing ! 60 psi compression!
Yet another failure of a 3rd "amazing" steel product, so have vice, CNC, hacksaw, wire cutter and glossy web page promise written on toilet paper = well you know what you wipe you're rear end with
Carbon seal = rooted ! taper wear, chewed ends, bad wear on leading edge = very low power... All serious N/A racers only use cermaic apex seals, much better wear than steel, same weight as carbon, they don't rape rotor housings, and last forever in N/A application in championship winning circuit race cars. ***remember Mazda factory won the Le Mans 24Hr after implementing modern ceramic technology, to get over problems with steel (of which they make arguably the best most durable of this type of OLD TECH.) and carbon which simply loose too much power too quickly from new, and were not strong enough for all situations***
I can add that my findings are just about the same when applied to a 600hp+ street going car. Running wide open at that power level in high gear only NRS survived time and time again.
The load and heat placed on the apex seal from running continuously at wide open throttle was too much for any kind of alloy apex seal. Compression was always compromised even after one blast at wide open throttle for any sustain time when using different alloy apex seals. In terms of durability the factory apex seal actually did the best when compared to the aftermarket alloy ones. Abnormal housing ware and strange chatter marks not resulting from seal float but from material indifferences were the norm most of the times.
Many would argue that the aftermarket alloy seals do not break and yes they don't but you got to look at the big picture and see if that's what you want for your application. So now you got unbreakable apex seals that 'bend' and compromise sealing, but you're cracking end housings time and time again or denting rotor faces, breaking side seals etc. which in the end the results are what? Complete tear down and overhaul!
If you're happy and judge your success at that level then good for you. Many others don't and need the success and results beyond that level.
NRS Apex Seals guaranteed results from start up to way beyond the 1/4mile!
Last edited by crispeed; 08-31-08 at 12:12 PM.
08-31-08, 12:21 PM
#589
Does that really matter?
There's a much bigger picture being presented there!
It does not matter which brand it is. The results are always the same eventually!
Some need a bandaid and others need a cure! The choice is yours!!!!
There's a much bigger picture being presented there!
It does not matter which brand it is. The results are always the same eventually!
Some need a bandaid and others need a cure! The choice is yours!!!!
08-31-08, 01:18 PM
#593
Living life 9 seconds at a time
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Abingdon, Md
Posts: 6,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So far I've ran upwards of 44lbs of boost on the new material NRS seals with great results. I even went road racing last week, run low on fuel, fuel pressure dropped and compression is still perfect. Im very happy with them.
08-31-08, 01:44 PM
#594
08-31-08, 02:48 PM
#595
trully amazed in your results ... now you really just need to contact mazda and make some big bucks out of them and maybe they'll be in for the 16x engine and starting a new more promising future for our rotary name. I don't see why mazda wouldn't want to help develop such a seal if they really want to stick with the rotary game.
08-31-08, 07:35 PM
#597
trully amazed in your results ... now you really just need to contact mazda and make some big bucks out of them and maybe they'll be in for the 16x engine and starting a new more promising future for our rotary name. I don't see why mazda wouldn't want to help develop such a seal if they really want to stick with the rotary game.
08-31-08, 09:24 PM
#599
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts