NRS Rotorsports ceramic seal test results
05-16-08, 09:01 PM
#501
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preliminary polishing trials
This is only to give you an idea of what is possible to achieve with our micro polishing.
Hers are some pics of a shaft and rear stat gear that came from a siezed engine. These parts sat outside in the elements I think for about 1 year or more in a pile of scrap parts. I thought I would try some garbage pieces just to see how they would come out. Please keep in mind with this trial all we were trying to achieve was to clean these up and no real low RA polishing has been done to them.
Hers are some pics of a shaft and rear stat gear that came from a siezed engine. These parts sat outside in the elements I think for about 1 year or more in a pile of scrap parts. I thought I would try some garbage pieces just to see how they would come out. Please keep in mind with this trial all we were trying to achieve was to clean these up and no real low RA polishing has been done to them.
05-18-08, 12:42 AM
#502
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Hello All
As u requested a little update on dyno numbers with the NRS seals and E85. I hope it's ok to put it in our thread Sven.
The seals are sick so sick. The compression is realy good with the 3mm 1 piece seals on a BP engine. Im seeing 250mm/hg in vacum at idle at about 1800 rpm. Wich is quite good.
Due to backpressure on the exhaust housing we could not dyno the car above 5000 rpm since the boost just went over the roof. The T04Z with a 1.15 housing boosted 1.2bar at 3000 rpm. And did 370rwhp at 5000 rpm at 0.9 bar, before the boost started rising bad.
Were adding a second Tial 44mm wastegate and putting on a 1.32 exhast housing this weekend. And will dyno the car again within 2 weeks.
E85 is so easy to tune with. And u get boost so quick. And i will do a compression check on the engine this week i hope. The car was put on the dynapack after just 3 hours of engine run time.
JT
As u requested a little update on dyno numbers with the NRS seals and E85. I hope it's ok to put it in our thread Sven.
The seals are sick so sick. The compression is realy good with the 3mm 1 piece seals on a BP engine. Im seeing 250mm/hg in vacum at idle at about 1800 rpm. Wich is quite good.
Due to backpressure on the exhaust housing we could not dyno the car above 5000 rpm since the boost just went over the roof. The T04Z with a 1.15 housing boosted 1.2bar at 3000 rpm. And did 370rwhp at 5000 rpm at 0.9 bar, before the boost started rising bad.
Were adding a second Tial 44mm wastegate and putting on a 1.32 exhast housing this weekend. And will dyno the car again within 2 weeks.
E85 is so easy to tune with. And u get boost so quick. And i will do a compression check on the engine this week i hope. The car was put on the dynapack after just 3 hours of engine run time.
JT
Any more updates?
05-19-08, 04:00 AM
#503
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Hello Sven
No updates as of now. Were putting the car back on the dyno tomorrow of wensday i hope. Since im going to the track this weekend. I will also have a compression check done at the same time.
The car is quite easy to start when cold, but the warm start map is not yet tuned perfectly, so it's a PITA to start when it's warm. Sometimes it req alot of fuel, and some other times it req less fuel, it's quite strange. Im guessing it's the E85, cause it was easy to start with regular fuel.
JT
No updates as of now. Were putting the car back on the dyno tomorrow of wensday i hope. Since im going to the track this weekend. I will also have a compression check done at the same time.
The car is quite easy to start when cold, but the warm start map is not yet tuned perfectly, so it's a PITA to start when it's warm. Sometimes it req alot of fuel, and some other times it req less fuel, it's quite strange. Im guessing it's the E85, cause it was easy to start with regular fuel.
JT
05-21-08, 06:03 PM
#504
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more polishing pics
Here's a front cover I did some polishing on just to clean it up. Again there has been no low value RA polishing done on this. Once I am set up I will polish the cover to a mirror 
I have a few more pics of other parts I will post once I have time.
I have a few more pics of other parts I will post once I have time.
05-23-08, 12:45 PM
#505
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Alittle more uppdate Sven.
The car was on the dyno again yesterday, and we managed to finaly tune it on the same boost pressure all the way to 8000 rpm this time
And the results is 497rwhp and 512nm at 7650 rpm at 1.2 bar with the TO4Z and abit on the rich side on E85, and not to high ignition. 10.5 or so on from 7000 and out.
The mapping was done on flowjet i belive it was, similar to a Mustang dyno i think with dual wheels. The dyno has been tested against a Roto Test dyno, and the HP was almost excatly the same.
Now im at a track meeting, and the car pulls like monster. When i get back im gonna do a compression check on the engine and see how it is.
Sven u got any of the new 3mm 1 pc seals ready?
JT
The car was on the dyno again yesterday, and we managed to finaly tune it on the same boost pressure all the way to 8000 rpm this time
And the results is 497rwhp and 512nm at 7650 rpm at 1.2 bar with the TO4Z and abit on the rich side on E85, and not to high ignition. 10.5 or so on from 7000 and out.
The mapping was done on flowjet i belive it was, similar to a Mustang dyno i think with dual wheels. The dyno has been tested against a Roto Test dyno, and the HP was almost excatly the same.
Now im at a track meeting, and the car pulls like monster. When i get back im gonna do a compression check on the engine and see how it is.
Sven u got any of the new 3mm 1 pc seals ready?
JT
05-24-08, 05:07 PM
#507
Senior Member
Alittle more uppdate Sven.
The car was on the dyno again yesterday, and we managed to finaly tune it on the same boost pressure all the way to 8000 rpm this time
And the results is 497rwhp and 512nm at 7650 rpm at 1.2 bar with the TO4Z and abit on the rich side on E85, and not to high ignition. 10.5 or so on from 7000 and out.
The mapping was done on flowjet i belive it was, similar to a Mustang dyno i think with dual wheels. The dyno has been tested against a Roto Test dyno, and the HP was almost excatly the same.
Now im at a track meeting, and the car pulls like monster. When i get back im gonna do a compression check on the engine and see how it is.
Sven u got any of the new 3mm 1 pc seals ready?
JT
The car was on the dyno again yesterday, and we managed to finaly tune it on the same boost pressure all the way to 8000 rpm this time
And the results is 497rwhp and 512nm at 7650 rpm at 1.2 bar with the TO4Z and abit on the rich side on E85, and not to high ignition. 10.5 or so on from 7000 and out.
The mapping was done on flowjet i belive it was, similar to a Mustang dyno i think with dual wheels. The dyno has been tested against a Roto Test dyno, and the HP was almost excatly the same.
Now im at a track meeting, and the car pulls like monster. When i get back im gonna do a compression check on the engine and see how it is.
Sven u got any of the new 3mm 1 pc seals ready?
JT
/Lasse
06-10-08, 12:53 PM
#512
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NRS goes NOS
Thanks to JR (Judge Ito) from Advanced Rotary Performance we have some initial results of performance on the 2mm hard faced springs as well as Nitrous use on NRS 2mm 1pc.
JR reports that after installing NRS 2mm 1pc Scorpions that he immediately had to add 3% more fuel compared to the same set-up using aftermarket 2mm 2pc steel seals. These results are right out of the box with very little seat-in time. This gives us some indication that the modified springs are providing good pressure and we know that the Stinger hard facing will ensure that we hold that pressure for a long time to come.
We don't have compression figures yet but they will come soon. With regular compression test intervals to follow so we can log the sealing ability over time and # of passes.
JR also reported that the engine made more power on a 225 shot than on a 300 shot using aftermarket 2pc 2mm steel seals.
On the first outing at the track they ran their best 60' with a 1.19, previously the average 60' was around 1.24-1.26 so we are very happy about that.
With the coming chassis tweak JR has planned the RX3 should run like an arrow and with the new found power........who knows
Stay tuned, JR said he would come on here and make his own reports and give details as they come.
JR reports that after installing NRS 2mm 1pc Scorpions that he immediately had to add 3% more fuel compared to the same set-up using aftermarket 2mm 2pc steel seals. These results are right out of the box with very little seat-in time. This gives us some indication that the modified springs are providing good pressure and we know that the Stinger hard facing will ensure that we hold that pressure for a long time to come.
We don't have compression figures yet but they will come soon. With regular compression test intervals to follow so we can log the sealing ability over time and # of passes.
JR also reported that the engine made more power on a 225 shot than on a 300 shot using aftermarket 2pc 2mm steel seals.
On the first outing at the track they ran their best 60' with a 1.19, previously the average 60' was around 1.24-1.26 so we are very happy about that.
With the coming chassis tweak JR has planned the RX3 should run like an arrow and with the new found power........who knows
Stay tuned, JR said he would come on here and make his own reports and give details as they come.
06-10-08, 04:21 PM
#513
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Thanks to JR (Judge Ito) from Advanced Rotary Performance we have some initial results of performance on the 2mm hard faced springs as well as Nitrous use on NRS 2mm 1pc.
JR reports that after installing NRS 2mm 1pc Scorpions that he immediately had to add 3% more fuel compared to the same set-up using aftermarket 2mm 2pc steel seals. These results are right out of the box with very little seat-in time. This gives us some indication that the modified springs are providing good pressure and we know that the Stinger hard facing will ensure that we hold that pressure for a long time to come.
We don't have compression figures yet but they will come soon. With regular compression test intervals to follow so we can log the sealing ability over time and # of passes.
JR also reported that the engine made more power on a 225 shot than on a 300 shot using aftermarket 2pc 2mm steel seals.
Thanks
On the first outing at the track they ran their best 60' with a 1.19, previously the average 60' was around 1.24-1.26 so we are very happy about that.
With the coming chassis tweak JR has planned the RX3 should run like an arrow and with the new found power........who knows
Stay tuned, JR said he would come on here and make his own reports and give details as they come.
JR reports that after installing NRS 2mm 1pc Scorpions that he immediately had to add 3% more fuel compared to the same set-up using aftermarket 2mm 2pc steel seals. These results are right out of the box with very little seat-in time. This gives us some indication that the modified springs are providing good pressure and we know that the Stinger hard facing will ensure that we hold that pressure for a long time to come.
We don't have compression figures yet but they will come soon. With regular compression test intervals to follow so we can log the sealing ability over time and # of passes.
JR also reported that the engine made more power on a 225 shot than on a 300 shot using aftermarket 2pc 2mm steel seals.
Thanks
On the first outing at the track they ran their best 60' with a 1.19, previously the average 60' was around 1.24-1.26 so we are very happy about that.
With the coming chassis tweak JR has planned the RX3 should run like an arrow and with the new found power........who knows
Stay tuned, JR said he would come on here and make his own reports and give details as they come.
Any word on the 3mm seals?
06-13-08, 07:10 AM
#514
Rotary Freak
Some of my experiences with the NRS seals. The very first thing I notice was a reduction in friction. Almost like the rotors are swimming in a lake of butter. Once I felt that I knew I was in a good place. Second thing I notice was the amount of sealing compression. A huge difference in comparison to metal seals. Once I fired the engine up my Air fuel ratios were off. A little on the lean side. I had to add 3% more fuel to my idle map and over all map.
I took the Rx3 to test and tune, I made a nitrous reduction of horse power jetting. to start off. I had a 300hp jetting prior to the NRS seals, I decided to go down to 225hp since the NRS were creating better vacuum. My car will not run straight in the two runs that I tried the car. But I could say the The car went from a 1.24 60 FT.(with the previous metal seals) to a 1.21 and 1.19 60ft mark. (with the NRS ceramics) I don't have more information since the car will not run straight, but so far I'm making more power with less nitrous, using the NRS seals. The Rx3 is currently being worked on, and Ill be testing the NRS seals very soon. Over all experience is Xtremely satisfied..
to be continue..
I took the Rx3 to test and tune, I made a nitrous reduction of horse power jetting. to start off. I had a 300hp jetting prior to the NRS seals, I decided to go down to 225hp since the NRS were creating better vacuum. My car will not run straight in the two runs that I tried the car. But I could say the The car went from a 1.24 60 FT.(with the previous metal seals) to a 1.21 and 1.19 60ft mark. (with the NRS ceramics) I don't have more information since the car will not run straight, but so far I'm making more power with less nitrous, using the NRS seals. The Rx3 is currently being worked on, and Ill be testing the NRS seals very soon. Over all experience is Xtremely satisfied..
to be continue..
06-13-08, 07:16 AM
#515
Rotary Freak
Some of my experiences with the NRS seals. The very first thing I notice was a reduction in friction. Almost like the rotors are swimming in a lake of butter. Once I felt that I knew I was in a good place. Second thing I notice was the amount of sealing compression. A huge difference in comparison to metal seals. Once I fired the engine up my Air fuel ratios were off. A little on the lean side. I had to add 3% more fuel to my idle map and over all map.
I took the Rx3 to test and tune, I made a nitrous reduction of horse power jetting. to start off. I had a 300hp jetting prior to the NRS seals, I decided to go down to 225hp since the NRS were creating better vacuum. My car will not run straight in the two runs that I tried the car. But I could say the The car went from a 1.24 60 FT.(with the previous metal seals) to a 1.21 and 1.19 60ft mark. (with the NRS ceramics) I don't have more information since the car will not run straight, but so far I'm making more power with less nitrous, using the NRS seals. The Rx3 is currently being worked on, and Ill be re- testing the NRS seals very soon. Over all experience is Xtremely satisfying..
to be continue..
I took the Rx3 to test and tune, I made a nitrous reduction of horse power jetting. to start off. I had a 300hp jetting prior to the NRS seals, I decided to go down to 225hp since the NRS were creating better vacuum. My car will not run straight in the two runs that I tried the car. But I could say the The car went from a 1.24 60 FT.(with the previous metal seals) to a 1.21 and 1.19 60ft mark. (with the NRS ceramics) I don't have more information since the car will not run straight, but so far I'm making more power with less nitrous, using the NRS seals. The Rx3 is currently being worked on, and Ill be re- testing the NRS seals very soon. Over all experience is Xtremely satisfying..
to be continue..
06-13-08, 01:46 PM
#516
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4 rotor ceramic corner seal test bed established
NRS has agreed to supply free of charge 2 full sets of 3mm ceramic corner seals to crispeed for the 4 rotor RX8 build for the purposes of testing. Firstly the engine will be built and a baseline established on 3mm 1pc seals. Then the ceramic corner seals will be installed to properly assess any gains or performance changes.
With the combination of ceramic apex seals and ceramic corner seals the 4 rotor rotating assembly will see a weight savings of approx 5.72 ounces at the extremities of the rotor.
With the combination of ceramic apex seals and ceramic corner seals the 4 rotor rotating assembly will see a weight savings of approx 5.72 ounces at the extremities of the rotor.
06-14-08, 04:37 PM
#521
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Just got my car last night. Not tuned yet. I want to put a few miles on it before tuning. I'll have dyno results in two weeks. I have the one piece 3mm new material. Starts with one crank! Can't wait to see how it does with the boost to it! Thanks for all the help Sven.
06-15-08, 08:23 AM
#524
Rotary Enthusiast
So i finaly did a compression check Sven. The setup is 13b Bridge Port with 3mm 1 piece seals.
The car has been working fine, and after some tuning of the startup map, both cold and warm it starts like a charm now. This is on E85
So back to the compression check. I don't have a mazda compression checker so i used the old fashion one, with the one way valve in it that i took out. On the front rotor it looks like it jumps up to between 75-85 psi and on the rear it's def above 80psi on all faces.
Now i don't know what the compression should be in a large BP engine. But this seams a tad low i think. But it does not have any starting problem at all.
It fires straight up and even idles by it self when warming up. It also starts instant when warm. And the vacume at idle is about 280mm/hg or -8 psi on my boost gauge in vacum. This is after what i have been told quite high for a BP engine. The rpm is about 1700 when pulling this kind of vacume at itdle.
And the engine runs fine under boost, except for a heat soak problem i have had. Wich i now think i have found.
If anyone could give me a comparison to other Bridge Port engines it would be great.
JT
The car has been working fine, and after some tuning of the startup map, both cold and warm it starts like a charm now. This is on E85
So back to the compression check. I don't have a mazda compression checker so i used the old fashion one, with the one way valve in it that i took out. On the front rotor it looks like it jumps up to between 75-85 psi and on the rear it's def above 80psi on all faces.
Now i don't know what the compression should be in a large BP engine. But this seams a tad low i think. But it does not have any starting problem at all.
It fires straight up and even idles by it self when warming up. It also starts instant when warm. And the vacume at idle is about 280mm/hg or -8 psi on my boost gauge in vacum. This is after what i have been told quite high for a BP engine. The rpm is about 1700 when pulling this kind of vacume at itdle.
And the engine runs fine under boost, except for a heat soak problem i have had. Wich i now think i have found.
If anyone could give me a comparison to other Bridge Port engines it would be great.
JT