Bluem

anyone ever made there own apex seals?? im going to try and mchine a set , what material should i use?

any sugestions to experiment with on desing and material???

and what are the dimensions???

skim41

I think for dimension purposes that you should carefully measure a seal from Atkins or RA. Design and material, is somehting you have to find out while experimenting. I would say It should be hard, with a somewhat flexible core and have good lubricating properties. Too hard will eat the housing and rotor. Too soft will wear fast and easily. Furthermore you should calculate/watch the expansion properties of the material.

dubulup

I'd let the folks who have put lots of money into material R&D machine mine. Folk over the ~$180 and build a motor you know has quality seals. You could easily spend twice that try to master the art...just my $0.02

RandomHero

iTrader: (2)

These are questions that are backed up by pages and pages of math. Like the acceleration rate of the apex seal and whatnot. Its all in Kenichi Yamamoto's book. All that stuff is beyond me, but if your serious about this, www.rotaryrefs.net

tmiked

Materials selection is a big consideration. Using an uncoated material too similar to the housing could result in galling and instant junk engine. There are some great coatings available which you could use on top of the proper material.

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

I'm not trying to come across as an ***, but realistically anyone who has to ask those questions are most likely not able to make the seals, or at least ones that work. Material choice of coarse will determine the final size of the seal (expansion and clearance).

Make something that doesn't require a doctrine in metallurgy, like an abradable compressor housing for near zero clearance of the compressor wheel. Now there’s something do-able, simple to try (I might add WAY less expensive) and useful.

~Mike.............

RETed

AGREED^^^

Those things might look simple, but the actual dimensions is NOT the hard part.

Material selection and tempering is the big problem.

Apex seal expand faster then rotor (groove)?
Stuck apex seal and possible engine damage...

Apex seal expand slower than rotor (groove)?
Excessive blow-by and loss of power...

Apex seal too hard for rotor (groove)?
Clearances go to hell and possible engine damage...

Apex seal too soft for rotor (groove)?
Premature failure of apex seal...

You get the picture?


-Ted

88IntegraLS

Rotary Aviation!

Atkins!

Yeah, stock Mazda 2mm 2pc for me from now on.

Wankel7

Dude, your from the PR...I would have figured they had their own homegrown stuff down there

James

dubulup

how much boost have you been running?

88IntegraLS

Na

Bluem

can anyone measure a brand new one with a caliper???

88IntegraLS

It's basically the thickness of the size of the rotor seal gap minus .002in., width of the rotor housing - .004-.012in, and I forget how high it is, probably around 3/8"

rxtasy3

iTrader: (2)

i have an old 70's repair manual that has all the specs on that stuff. don't know how much changes if any were made between the years tho, but i could list these if u'd like.

Bluem

no its ok, a friend of mine gave me an apex seal to measure.

andrew lohaus

would you slice up soup cans to make piston rings??

Bluem

if i was building a honda engine yes i would. since thats what the oem parts are.

peejay

Better seal failure, than destruction of the expensive parts.

Probably going to build engines with carbon-aluminum seals from now on, simply because they're more housing friendly.

I don't do turbos, which also helps.

RETed

That's what Hurley claims...
Go ask all the people who had their Hurley seals fly out of their engines.
It still necessitates a very expensive engine rebuild, whether it be time or money.

I call that a poor excuse for poor quality parts.
I've been an advocate for Mazda OEM apex seals since day one.
I've never had a problem with the Mazda OEM seals.
I've never been a fan of these aftermarket apex seals.
One by one, they have all fallen.

About the only other option is ceramics, which cost an are and a leg!

I'll stick to my Mazda OEM apex seals while you're rebuilding engines...


_Ted

peejay

I've had problems with Mazda seals. The 3mm seals are rough on housings even if they don't self destruct and obliterate everything in their path.

I'd rather rebuild cheap than have a dead car because I can't find any good used replacement housings/rotors cheaply. (A pair of new rotor housings alone would cost more than I put into an entire car!)

RandomHero

iTrader: (2)

? why the diss to honda? they build very efficient cars. They are often the butt of ricer jokes for obvious reasons, but when they are done right they can run damn fast. Ive never been a fan of fwd but when you get your *** spanked by a turbo honda, maybe you will get the idea.

What about racing beat carbon/aluminum seals? Anyone have opinions on them?