Fatty_FC3S

Yeah, but they would ban you in a fashion suitable to an NSX........



.... SLOWLY...

BlkS5TII

Thanks kwman. I hope I didn't come across as an arrogant Evo owner. I was just trying to defend the car from people that were trying to make it seem worthless. My FC will be faster than the Evo as soon as I can recover from the Evo purchase and finish ordering up the parts I need, but I'm not going to go so far as to say that the Evo is now crap. I'll go run stock 12's all day with my 100,000 mile warranty.

And about the Evo forum guys hating the SRT4 I have to say that I haven't noticed that yet. In fact, a lot of the people on there that now own Evos once owned SRT4's. I guess they wanted to go fast AND turn.

bmwrx7man

iTrader: (2)

i feel like a black nun

jic

iTrader: (1)

bheiman

nah i was just messin around, but i was pretty suprised by that. Honestly that cobalt didnt have THAT extensive of a build, i guess stock 2.2 and even stock calipers on the breaks.

I want an evo or wrx for that matter in the future. Nice cars, i would love to get into rallycross

kwman

I'll be the first to admit, I built my evo for drag first. Stock turbo 11.8 at 117 (no nitrous) was the best I could do. Now I'm working on the suspension as the power is fine right now. Rallycross is fun, but I don't think i could bare the constant washing.


BLKS5TII, please trust me on this, take a little bit of money, not much maybe just 1200 and put it into the evo. Do a TBE (no cats), MBC, Custom dyno tune, and get some race gas, you will be DAMN close to or over 400whp with that evoX.

Do some searching for threads about SRT4 hating, the funniest threads are the ones where the SRT4 would challenge an evo to a race, and the owner would roll down the back windows and say "YEEEAHHHH WHAT NOW BITCH?"

bheiman

4g63 for life

i have to say i really do like the 4g63s. If built right they can run good and long.

anyways, shep (of shep racing) is running 7's right now in his dsm.

jic

iTrader: (1)

Boostmaniac

True, the 4G63 was actually an engine block that was discovered in space. It was apparently made by aliens and is virtually indestructable. Shep's car is sick, I'm surprised they don't make him wear a pressure suit for the launches in that car.

rx7f4n4tic

the new evos are very nice looking cars but in relation to just looks, the 7 is by far better imo. As far as stock times go, your taking stock times off paper, from articles over 10 years old vs a brand new car with over 10 years of factory upgrades AND awd from a launch for 0-60 times.

There is a person on the forum (forgot who it was sorry) who ran a 13.5 on 100% bone stock cym with factory tires. Factor in 10 years of tire advancement vs the tires that came on factory and you could break high 12s with tires alone... and thats on 10 psi, vs what evos run stock? 18? The 7 can make hp far more effectively than the 4g63 can, reliability then becomes the factor there though. But with enough money our motors can become as reliable as anything else. But people claim the 4g63 is near bullet proof and its not. Your motors blow just as often as ours do. I had a friend with full bolt on and fuel system 1g gsx with a 16g. He told me he ran an 11.8 before his motor blew up. I thought to myself thats not that bad, until he told me he was running 27 spiking to 29 lbs. Thats pretty sad imo.

Any evo with the right mods can keep with any 7. Evos are going to be far better rally cars than 7's any day of the week. I doubt anyone is gonna deny that.

BlkS5TII

I agree on the FD's looking much better, but looks are subjective.

Good for the guy that ran a 13.5 but, being realistic, how many people running street tires are going to run 12's in an otherwise stock RX7? You're right, there is an age difference, but tracks don't give bonuses to older cars. The two cars are like night and day, so it's difficult enough to compare them without factoring in bonus points for age, but I will say that older Evos certainly were competing with FD's back when they were new(at least in Japan). Just check out the current standing Tsukuba records and you will see older Evos placed higher than most newer cars including FD's.

How does boost psi count for efficiency of the engine? The amount of boost a car runs is completely dependent on power goals, turbo efficiency range(size dependent), and displacement. Mitsubishi uses a relatively small turbo in order to maintain driveability(lag), and since the turbo is smallish it needs to run lots of boost to provide the same power numbers as a larger turbo. Displacement is also a factor, and a 1.3L Rotary flows more than a 2.0L 4-stroke thus allowing larger more efficient turbos to be used.

I wouldn't call the 4g63 in 1G and 2G DSM's reliable. I think when people are talking about it being bulletproof they are reffering to the much revised one found in the USDM Evos. Not too many rotaries are being driven daily with 500+hp, so I'm not sure where you're saying that rotaries hold up just as well with enough money. Most of the guys that get 500+hp blow their engines enough times to give up and swap an LS1.

rx7f4n4tic

i said with enough money the motor can be reliable enough to handle that as well. Any of the big timers on this board dont "blow motors all the time and go LS1". Thats the puss out route. If they wanted it to be reliable then go buy an f-body and be done with it. Alot of the big timers here dont blow motors all the time. Ernie T and redrx7 have hardly blown any motors if at all.

Done correctly with a good tuner such as Kan or demetrious its gonna last a while. Also even if a motor blows after 30k, not driven daily, thats gonna last what? 3-4 years maybe. Plenty of time in the long run. Also the rx7's reliability problems are also plagued with 16 year old kids buying the car and dropping full exhaust with no boost control of any sort, blowing their motors and complain about how bad the motors are.

As far as the 4g63 goes. I didnt know the evo motor had alot of refinements to it compared to the 1g motors. I knew they had some sort of enhanced internals (rods/pistons) but not that much. And our motors break down less than the evo transmissions break down. Friend worked at mitsu dealer and said evos were in there nonstop for clutches and blown transmissions...

rx7f4n4tic

also i dunno if youve exactly seen the ht18s we have stock in our cars. They arent exactly what you call big, the t25 in my mazdaspeed is bigger... regardless if we have 2 or not its only 10 total psi.

BlkS5TII

You say a good tune will last a good 3-4 years, but you say that's only if you don't drive it. That's quite a poor defense. I can leave my FC in my driveway for 20 years and say that the motor never blew. Would I then have the most reliable FC? 30k miles isn't that long unless you never touch the car. On average that's 2 years between having to rebuild if you're driving it daily.

AWD launches are very bad for a car, but are probably the funnest aspect of it. Any sports car that comes with AWD has issues with clutches and transfer cases. With 2WD you can break the tires loose and so the rubber will take the abuse, but with AWD all of that shock goes through the driveline. When constantly launched any AWD clutch or TC will give up quite easily. It's the same principle behind you saying 16yr old kids pop motors by being stupid. Stupid abusive driver = broken car. That goes for any vehicle.

There's quite a few changes to the 4g63. You haven't heard of crankwalk or blown head gaskets too often if at all from these cars. 500+hp is bound to have problems though.

So you're using 2 turbos to push 10psi, which would be much more efficient(colder air) than 1 turbo pushing 20psi(stock on IX's). I don't understand what your argument is there. I happen to enjoy the quick spool-up, and I don't particularly care what psi it's at as long as it's reliable and gets the power.

StealthFox

iTrader: (2)

ive driven both and know people that own those cars, there is very little different, except for the vvt which gives you a more usable torque band, but its hardly enough to warrant a "major difference" i still stomp on them up and down the block in my old *** 16000 dollar bolt on special. in the canyons? not even close, the weight difference and nimbleness of the FD gives a definate advantage. needless to say im gonna get one as my daily driver/grocery getter.

BlkS5TII

The difference once modded past bolt-ons isn't that large, but stock for stock and bolt-on for bolt-on the IX is much faster. There's a larger turbo to go along with that improved powerband, and thanks to the extra tuning ability and larger turbo the IX takes to bolt-ons much better than any VIII.

Mod for mod the Evo will still be competitive with an FD. If you're going to gloat over the price of the car you might as well be an SRT4 owner. All the factual numbers say that an Evo is near equal to an FD in handling, but you're comparing cars through a battle of driver skill. I've taken an RX8 through the turns in my Celica, but that doesn't mean that Celicas handle better than RX8's. There is a weight difference, but Evos are just as nimble as an RX7, as unbelievable as that may seem. The factory suspension and grip is more than enough to be extremely competitive through the turns even against a Lotus Elise. To assume that handling isn't top notch due to weight and balance would be a mistake.

StealthFox

iTrader: (2)

you dont need to convince me how nible an evo is, ive driven 8s and 9s extensively enough to tell. you cant say one handles better than the other(fd or evo) they handle differently you cant compare apples to oranges, or in this case rwd to awd. well the celica you have is also an exceptional chassis(many people dont know that) but the rx8 handles as good as an rx7 R model as well, so with equal driver skill you shouldn't have won. i can drive my rx8 just as fast as my FD R1 and im running 100% stock marshmallow suspesion on the rx8

BlkS5TII

I agree. They are VERY different cars. Both are great at various things, and that is why I own both. I really enjoy the ACD on the Evos since it seems to take the best of every drivetrain. I'm a sucker for nimble cars as if you couldn't guess from my garage. The FC's suspension is worn and squishy, but I'm sure it will be great once refreshed.

You are a rare person to see the Celica as an excellent chassis, and it does handle exceptionally well so it's not too far fetched to beat an RX8 in the turns, but as you said the 8 would win with equal drivers.

StealthFox

iTrader: (2)

the sixth gen celica is looked at as a ricer car(all show no go) but that thing can handle, ive seen them beat out 350z's on the track with a good driver. considering a GTS as a daily driver and put some bolt ons and rims for fun.

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the newer Celica GT-S was the "next ITR" as far as FWD handling is concerned?

BlkS5TII

My GTS just has bolt-ons, a (real)Veilside body kit, and 18's. Not the fastest, but not many cars can compare in the looks and cleanliness department. When people see me in it they constantly rev or call it a slow pos, but I just blow it off since I have my fast stock looking cars.

This is the first time outside of a Celica forum that I have heard any kind words toward it. I'm quite surprised.

BlkS5TII

For my next project car I'm looking at either an MR2 turbo or a 4g or 5g Celica All-Trac. I'm still shocked that you two said nice things about Celicas. lol. You wouldn't believe how much crap I for owning one.

rowtareh?

iTrader: (1)

And it also helps that it is a peri-ported engine. And he is back to a 20b now.

StealthFox

iTrader: (2)

i know exactly what you're going through, in fact i dont have any close friends with celicas but i still know what you're talking about because every car enthusiast i talk to always has something bad to say about the celica, and no one respects it, i am one of the very few non celica owners that have good things to say about the sixth gen. the 4/5g celica turbo all tracs are also fearsome cars when modded properly, people underestimate them but little do they know that it can have a well tuned turbo and AWD. i assume you're looking at an sw20(that's the second generation) mr2 which is a very good chassis but very unforgiving and difficult to drive because of its MR drivetrain layout, good power potential and a lot of fun to drive. i know quite a few people with them and ive always loved that car, one day i will have an SW20 project, too much stuff going on right now though...

StealthFox

iTrader: (2)

never heard that before, but that sounds just about right...the dc2 ITR is still a better handling car than the celica GTS(last gen) but if you mod the celica to the level the ITR is modded from the factory then it would be pretty close.