ZeroBanger

and you are taking the worst of the FD's Times to some exaggerated best MR2 times. MR2's ran high 14's.

45psi

Sorry I did not read your last post. Where is he located? I would be glad to run your friend, from a stop or 40-150. 140 is very impressive, I am not sure if I can top that but we shall see. The most I have trapped at is 122 on my stock motor without head work or anything. I have not been to the track since then. I am hopeing to trap around 130-135 once my car is out. My car is scheduled to be finished by the end of this month or the first of next. Let me know what he wants to do.

ZeroBanger

Im a post *****. I even trolled the beretta forum. Yes, sit down. There is actually a forum for the Chevy Beretta. I was shocked too.

I am not on the tiberon board though. But in one way or another I am on:

stupraforums, lscrumb.com, stainnet, s2chicki., my350extrapoundZ, 300zxblob.com, nopissing.com, mrscrew forums, rx7dud.com, clubSIlly, clubRSXed, I may be missing one or 2 or 3.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Well, a guy here on the boards (SPOautos) out in Alabama with an identical setup to mine trapped 125 on pump gas and street tires.

One point I was making is that there is no way in hell I need two to three hundred more horsepower to keep up with you. I'm trapping 125 right now, and I think at speeds above that my rex is even stronger. I'm going to be back at Fort Hood during the first week in August, so we'll have to meet up. I'd love to see an MR2 with as much power as yours. We could go Mustang hunting together

45psi

Do you want me to post Sport compact car quarter mile time, when they made a 14.1 at 102. Or how about

http://users.breathemail.net/mensah/performance.htm

Its pointless argueing with people who's brain is as small as mosquito buttie. Most of you have never driven a 2, nor know the specs of one.

ZeroBanger

I dont doubt that someone got a 14.1, thats at the Very low end AND you said the *BEST* an fd got was 13.9. We have members on this forum that got 13.3-13.5. My friend ran 13.5 bone stock.

SCC got a 13.3 of the 03 cobra too, whats your point?

45psi

I don't have a point, niether do you.

ZeroBanger

something we agree on.

Shinobi-X

And the driver of an FD RX-7 running 14.8 cannot drive either. Stock FD's have seen 1/4's of 13.5, granted this may be under the perfect circumstances, but the fact remains that it is possible.

You obviously are in favor of the MR2, just as we are with RX-7s. However, you have to look at objective facts, and the fact is, MR2's are not in the same category of performance stock for stock, or otherwise with an FD. If you want to compare JDM or American market cars, then compare like examples. Jspec FD's came with 280hp, with better suspension and brakes. American market RX-7's outperform American MR2's as well.

How would you have to build an RX-7 up to MR2 standards, if a healthy stock RX-7 dynos 217rwhp, with a lighter chassis, thus giving it the better power/weight ratio? Toyota can do all the fooling it wants, but the fact is, the RX-7 is the faster car stock for stock. You build MR2s to match the speed of an FD.

Thats awesome, but still does not compare to the FD. The FD's stock gear ratios, enable it to reach speeds of 200mph, and with 400rwhp (which can be gained rather easily for around 10k, and is currently what I'm doing), makes it rather attainable.

Which is why you upgrade the stock coolant system of the FD- to accomodate the increased power demands.

If you want potential, take a look at this thread. https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=195941 682rwhp sounds good to me.

Jimmymack

well, I have read through this topic with interest.
I run a 1995 rev 3 MR2 turbo in the UK, all turbos are Jap imports here and my rev3 runs @245 at the flywheel stock, I have done a few reasonably minor mods to mine and it has dynod at 320 at the flywheel and 270 at the wheel.
We don't generally go in for monster mods in the UK for 2 reasons, 1/ cos it's so damn expensive to do and insure and 2/ co the roads are so congested you can hardly find room to use it all !!
I seriously looked into getting a RX7 for a while before settling on the mr2 purely because of it's reliability, I would say that due to the design of the RX7's engine, it will easily rev higher and accelerate quicker (stock for stock). But pound for pound (and I guess I'm gonna get flamed for this) Toyota made a pretty damn good job of extracting a lot of useable power from a 2 litre piston engine. (did you know that they were all subcontracted out and built by Yamaha?)
I love the style of the rx7, especially the later revisions, but of course being biased, I love my 2 more.
and as an after thought, 165 mph in stock is just achievable once you take of the Jap limiter.

45psi

Ok let me apologize for coming out on the wrong foot. The only reason I posted on here was to respond to other comments that I believe to be false. I truly feel that 95% of you have ever driven an mr2, and do not have the right to make false accusations.

No we are not as exposed to as Fd's here in the US, but in other countries we are abundant. I truly and honestly believe fd's have a very unique and special motor powering them. So I will leave it at that. Oh, I still want to run your friend.

45psi

Ok 685 is good but people have made 600 without even opening the 3sgte longlblock. Rod millen made over 1000 for pikes peak. Bob Norwood ran over 200 in a destroked mr2. Top secrete ran over 200 in there 3sgte power supra. The list goes on and on. I wonder why TOMS, TRD, CASTROL, TOP SECRETE, HKS, all favored the mr2 motor in endurance races, autocross, etc.

Yes you might have a better power to weight ratio(only 100 lb weight difference) but the mid engine, rear wheel drive, limited slip more than makes up for the that on launches.

Would you feel comfortable boosting a stock FD with just cooling upgrades? I think not. I'm sure half the people I am talking to have been through more than a motor or 2. And 40 percent of there cars are not running right now.(due to heating issues)

Just becuase a car stock might be a couple of tenths faster than the other, doesn't make it more of a performance car.

ZeroBanger

Wow you are as optimistic as Gore was about his chances in the 2000 Election. Im laughing my *** off at you. The FD has better brakes, better skid pad #'s, better 1/4 mile, better trap speed, better suspension, is classed in the HIGHEST SCCA catagory, and not BS like the MR2. We have 6 second RX7's in pro import, what does the fastest Mr2 run? we have UNIBODY 1.3 liter Rx7's that run low 8's, how bout the MR2.

Fact is I like the MR2, but its more a turbo II competitor than an FD competitor.

And its more like 1 second better on the 1/4 mile, not a few 10ths.

Shinobi-X

Can you post some links to this claim for reference purposes? BTW, how easy is it to make 600hp from an MR2? I'd say 600hp is hardly the norm, where 400rwhp-500rwhp for an FD is (that is still street driven).

Not to be nit picking, but a bit of reading states: "Rod Millen is the king of the mountain , the famous and deadly Pikes Peak . While his 900+ hp [671kw] at 3.10+bar [45+psi] Celica and the 1000hp Tundra truck dont run the 3S in theory , the E501 series is what was a starting platform for the 3S." Where as these accomplishments are great, you still have to consider these facts; a 400+rwhp FD on a stock tranny and other components, can make the same top end as the TS Supra of 200mph. 400rwhp is also quite easy to gain like I stated before, but many people have gone above this, to the point where 450-500rwhp is not surprising anymore. I rarely see MR2s come close to doing this, and the reputation they have gained on the street serves as proof. Line the average FD up with the average MR2, and the result is almost always the MR2 loosing- not that it's a bad car, but not as capable in most forms. People also love to argue about the Skyline making 1000hp, and it can, but they neglect to tell you about the amount of work that goes into it, along with the average person who can(t) afford/does(nt) make 1000hp. You can argue exceptions forever, as we are speaking in general terms- the MR2 is a great car, but the fact still stands that the average FD pound for pound outdoes it.

It's a great engine, but the discussion was not confined to the engine itself, but rather the MR2 as a whole. On that note, it only makes sense that TOMs, and TRD would develop solely for toyota platforms.

Launches? That would imply a drag race, of which the MR2 would still loose stock to stock... The weight also comes into play with handling, where the FD makes the better skidpad as well.

By itself, no, which is why I said "to accommodate the increased power demands." You get a decent water injection system (*ahem* ZEROBANGER- I had to add that for your sake), and you can boost quite safely with leaner A/F ratios. Aside from that, detonation is due to improper tuning, on a modified car. Pay attention to your fuel delivery system, and cooling, and you're set. Though there is still debate around why coolant seals go, part of the general and accepted theory is due to heat, not so much boost pressure as you are trying to say here.

And I have not been through any motors. You may also ask those people why their engines went, and if part of that reason was due to them modifying it. Would those same engines have been covered under warranty (for arguments sake) if they had blown? No- so we can conclude that it's the users fault, which accounts for roughly 90% of rotary engine failures. The RX-7 was designed to it's 'limit' by Mazda, and by that, I mean every part of the car was put in, and chosen for a specific reason. Tinkering with one (or a few components) takes a toll on the car, more so than most others. Bad vehicle? Hardly, it won car of the year upon it's release. Different vehicle that requires specific attention to detail? Yes, it was not designed to be 'modded' from the factory. For it's time, in stock form, it was quite the car- not perfect, but an excellent vehicle.

If a car outruns you buy 1/10 of a second in a 1/4 mile, it's still 'more of a performance car'. Why wouldn't it be? What you may be trying to say, is that the performance difference is marginal. Given your example though, the FD would still make the faster car, as we've seen this proven time and time again as it reinforces it's reputation...the same goes for the Supra. The MR2, though a great car, is not in the same class as either of these cars. If you want to get into heavy debate about potential, I'm out of that one, mainly because we could go on forever. There are hundreds of stories about civics that can beat FD's or MR2, but arguing what a car can do, and what it consistently does, are two different things.

turbogarrett

iTrader: (1)

mr 2 turbos are nice looking , definetly underated cars. i just find it funny that everytime someone posts a kill with an rx7, owners of the car "killed" seem to get all offended. if you read the 1st couple pages of this thread
45psi you will see most of the rx7 owners posting had previously owned mr2 turbos. then you come out saying they're full of **** and don't know what they're talking about as well as blasting the rx7. a properly setup 13b, running methanol(like norwood's mr2) could probably make similiar #'s. at least you have a very powerful mr2 that can back up the trash talking, got any videos of your car in action?

ZeroBanger

Ray Lockheads Unibody Rx-7 runs on the stock seals using methanol. He has 850+ HP from the 13B. He runs 8.2

http://www.srmotorsports.com/mazda_rx7.html

Atticus

I still just don't get why you say that you have to build an FD up to match a stock MR-2, yet later you say:

Well, right there you said it was faster, because you said that an FD must be modded to match a stock MR-2. I'm just wondering why you contradicted yourself in those two posts?

Oh, and if you and Goodfella race, make sure you get that on tape. Despite who wins, it's gonna be a sweet *** race, b/c from the looks of it you both have pretty badass cars.

EricM

Because he is a 16yr old keyboard warrior.

All I've seen is some pics of an engine, which could be anybody's and some website about drag race results in Japan. No dyno sheet, no pics of himself with the car, no videos of his runs(with those power he must've run in the 10s) and keeps contradicting himself like you say in the above. Nothing that he says is technical and coherent. Even if he does own an MR2 with that amount of power, I highly doubt it he knows what he's talking about.

45psi

EricM. How do I know it is you repling to me and not your brother. See how stupid that sounds. Grow up dude get a life.

You can go to the mr2.com board and ask about me. My name on there is 25psi. I'm not going to go in a pissing match with you. IF you don't believe thats my motor than fine, let it be. Less worries for you.

Atticus. What I mean by build up the FDS is that, first to run any considerable amount of boost you are going to have to upgrade seals, along with the cooling system to have a chance of running 450+hp on a consistant basis. Yes stock for stock the FD is faster(depends on what year mr2), but you have to realize the mr2 has the potential of running 450+ on stock longblock.

ZeroBanger

its kind of ironic you need to run 25 more PSI on the Rx7 forum, LOL.

Shinobi-X

Upgrading the apex seals is not needed. Many people run power levels greater than that, on the stock 2mm seals. When it comes to detonation, 3mm seals are not going to do that much more for you, as they are still no match for the force from detonation. The best way to prevent engine failure, is through proper tuning. 15-16psi on a single turbo FD (along with other mods), can get you 450hp safely. If you are discussing the performance of the two cars, I don't see how you bring in the cooling system, as that would fall into the reliability category; of which we know the FDs stock system does not excell, when greater stress is placed upon it when modding the car.

Can you please give us a link, to one of the cars with a list of mods that enables this? Dyno sheet or something? Is streetability also a factor in this debate? I know it can be done, as it can with an FD, but I would just like the info.

45psi

No streetability is mot a debate. Ok, he doesn't have it posted but here is his website. Garageadvance.com, ExtremeBoost.com, Alamomotorsport.com. The guy's name is AL at Garageadvance.com. He made over 500+ on stock internals with over 180,000 miles on the car. I made over 400+ with 120,000 miles on the car. Oh, you can go to Rossmachineracing.com. He has a video of his stock mr2 making 429.

Zerobanger i do not understand your responce

mr2.2liter

LOL 45-25=20 his name is 25 psi on the mr2 board you say he is "running" 25 more psi on this forum by calling him self 45 psi . i dont understand where you got that extra 5 psi.???
I have been on the mr2 board for a while now and have seen his car progress and let me tell yall his car is fast. along with all the other 500+ whp mr2s some on stock block. i want to see yall( rx7 people) find some one in your community that is in houston and is willing to race 45 psi. then you should post the vids .then and only then we will see what is faster

'94Z32TT

25 + 25 = 45psi?

may want to brush up on your math before trying to be funny

Edit: doh! Looks like 2.2 Liter beat me to it

EricM

Hahaha... please please tell me how stupid I sound.

As for you, this is how stupid you sound :

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is you have to build an rx7 to be up to a stock mr2. Who cares what the stock number show. Those are just numbers. Toyota have always underated there cars, don't be fooled by Toyotas stock claims of 200hp. At our recent gathering, atleast 6 mr2's dynoed at over 192 at the wheels on a stock motor.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I still just don't get why you say that you have to build an FD up to match a stock MR-2, yet later you say:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok where did I ever post that a stock mr2 was faster? I said an mr2 ran a 14.2-14.5. Compared to a 13.9 at the most for an FD. And where did the extra 55hp go.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Well, right there you said it was faster, because you said that an FD must be modded to match a stock MR-2. I'm just wondering why you contradicted yourself in those two post ?

OMG you got




Get it now ?
You're even > dumberer than I thought.