EricM

Very funny 3RotorRocket, I wonder now if I can make you my b***h in 3 short posts.

Hehe.. please enlighten us with these monster MR2s.
As Goodfella said, everywhere I look MR2 got killed by FDs. Even their big brother Supra took a back seat to FD in handling category.
Funny you guys hold on to that one quick drag race by BM like a bible. 14.8 sec 1/4 mile from an FD ? Something's not right there. I got 13.9 bone stock when I first got it two years ago. How about this, find BM video when the 99 FD first came out and look how fast it is in the 1/4. I'll save you the search, 13.4 with an ok launch.
What's funnier is that you never mentioned something about that same BM video at Tsukuba when they race MR2 with an Integra, old RX7, etc. Who's the top dog now ? You guys even lost to the Integra. Yeah, that mid engine setup really works hah ?
Show us your 492 rwhp t78 dyno. Show us pics of your engine bay. Show us your 10 sec timeslips. I don't seem to recall any MR2 contenders in IDRC or NHRA recently. In contrast, RX7s are the first import that break 9, 8, and 7 second second barriers.

And you don't even want to go to car handling just yet.

ZeroBanger

Dan,

Do I have to say it?

45psi

Ok here are the pics:

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...MxeTU0MQ%3D%3D

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...MxeTU0MQ%3D%3D

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...MxeTU0MQ%3D%3D

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...MxeTU0MQ%3D%3D

This is with the t78 the t88 pics will come shortly.

How do you figure the supra took a back seat in handling. I suggest you look at a stock supra stats. Do I see a .95. OMG you got owned. Supra>RX7. Ok I give you another chance. A stock mr2 will pull right pass 185 on the stock gearing. Ask Bob Norwood who got all the way up to 202. MR2>Rx7. Ok, so far your o-2. Oh I might give you the stock advantage of a US spec mr2, but a Jspec will own you. 1-3. Ok unlike Fd's where each 93-95 where turbo, the mr2's where not. Out of the 15,000 sold through 91-95(US) only 4000 or so where turbo. So you do the math, what are the chances you ran into a turbo. About 25%.

Goodfellowfd3s, the mr2 did not come with 142lb tq it was 200 also. I have run 4 rx7 down here in houston, and I am 3-1 agianst them.

What are you talking about first s2000 and now this. How could you even compare the two. Yes stock for stock there evenly matched, but you give me 1000 dollars and by by s2000. That car is already maxed out. Nothing you can do to that motor(except FI) will cause it to make any power. Now on the other hand, I have 3-400 more hp under my belt until my motor starts having trouble.

The mr2 is a gem of a motor, you can't compare the 2 in all out performance. They may look identical on paper but trust me there not. Any company that would design heating flaws for there so called performance flagship is not worthy of my recognition. I might sound a little harsh, but speaking fallacy on the mr2 performance and platform kinda it a sore spot.

ZeroBanger

I hate to tell you this, the rx7 and supra both scored .98 on skid pad in motor trends tests. The MR2 was competition for the 2nd gen rx7, but the 3rd gen moved up in class.

And dont compare a fat pig 3500 lbs supra to a 2800 lb FD interms of handlng. ROTFLMFAO.

And the MR2 will pull past 185 in the stock gearing? Great the FD is "GEARED" for over 200. Big deal NEITHER will see those #'s in stock form.

45psi

Why are you contradicting yourself. First you say they both scored .98 on the skid pad, then on the other hand you say don't compare a 3500 fat pig to your car. What does that say about Toyota. Since there is a 700lb difference, maybe you should have scored higher. Maybe like 1.00.

How do you figure the third gen stepped up in class. I have proved you wrong in every one of my few post. You show me one advantage you have over the mr2(3sgte motor) besides a measly 100 lb weight difference.

There are none.

How about 270hp for the 97-99mr2. Owned
How about 13.2 vs rx7 14.0 Owned
How about 5-650 hp stock block. Owned
How about JGTC championship with the 3sgte motor in supras. 97,98,2000,2001, 2002. Owned
How about Top Secrete IS300(3sgte) set a new record at(forgot the track). Owned

The lists goes on and on.

So you tell me what you own.

Freaky Monkey007

I believe zerobanger sumed it up nicely.. Just wanted to say hellova nice engine.. Ive got a question though.. Not real familiar wit the engine so how does it do with such a big turbo? Just wondering b/c that seems like a huge turbo for a 4cyc to power...

45psi

Hey thanx for the compliments. It does very well, not alot of lag, great top end power. Now with the t88 I am sure it well be alot more lag, maybe 5500 full boost. The engine is more than capable of handling it on its stock internals. The only thing you would need is bigger cams and the fuel to accomodate the extra air.

The motor is capable of around 5-600 on stock internals without problems with the right tuning. I drove for 30,000 miles with 450. Actually the t78 is the second largest they make for the mr2. First is the t88. Here are some pics.

http://www.amkread.co.jp/Pages/Event...hoto_4WD_A.htm

Some witht 88's are running low 10's high 9's. If you look closely, all of them are running drag radials.

FstFD3SPOWER

Who really gives a ****.
both are nice cars. don't see too many fast *** Mr2s in my area but im sure there are some in State.

Why are we even talking about JGTC? To win the race, most importantly, it takes A GOOD *** DRIVER / Crews. Not what type of engine is in the car.

"How about 270hp for the 97-99mr2. Owned
How about 13.2 vs rx7 14.0 Owned"

These are JDM MR2? JDM rx7 has 280hp.
we shouldn't really compare with JDM we are not in japan.

Lets just all quit this BS... shall we ?

DaiOni

How about 280hp in the 99+ FD

How about every EQUIVALENT FD (JDM) beating the mr2 over 400m

How about the number of FDs running in the japanese street drag classes as opposed to the mr2

How about the fact that the mr2 isn't competative in the street tuner time trials (nor is your fabled supra for that matter)

How about you compare any US 'sports' v8 sedan to a nascar - that's about as similar as a JGTC entrant to a stock or street-modified FD/supra

How about the fact that the FD owns all the other japanese supercars in best motoring circuit tests (barring the ultra $$$ NSX). Where's the mr2??

How about snap oversteer

How about the fact that $$$ for $$$, the FD is far cheaper to get big numbers out of.

How about you post which record that car claims and then tell us why that is relevant to this topic.


come on - let's have some solid claims here!

FstFD3SPOWER

JGTC supra uses 3sgte right?
So i guess 2jzgte is a pos?

come on man...

13bpower

This is absurd, I like MR2's and I imagine this guys is nice but he has alot to learn about the FD. Any US spec MR2 is not in the same class of an FD. Its not to tough to get 500 hp out of a FD. I just am amazed at the arrogance of this guy.

45psi

What are you talking about. Being that the only 4CYl in jgtc is a 3sgte, and you say it holds no relevance. Please. Ok lets see who is in there: Skyline, RX7, Lambo, porshe, etc. did I say rx7. Ok i thought I did. Why did TOMS, Castrol, TRD even bother with the swap.

You guys are magazine nerds. I tell real life experiences. I have driven both, my brother has owned one. T78 by the way.

Please say you are joking when comparing the actual amount of money it takes to fix up both cars. How about you show me an rx7 that has made 600 to the wheels on a stock motor. You show me how it is cheaper to make power out of.

I live in Houston, you tell anyone of your rx7 click to run me. Or how about a stock block mr2 vs a stock rx7(both highly modified) My buddy has a 540 hp stock block mr2 with 180,000 miles on it.

Put your money where your mouth is. We can easily settle this debate.

45psi

You can not make 5-600hp on a stock rx7 and drive it reliabily. I live in houston where it is 100+ degress outside. Your seals and motor would be toast. I bet the majority of rx7's have been rebuilt at one time. Correct me if I am wrong. If I am I apologize.

My brother sold his rx7 after the 3rd motor rebuild. Please do not tell me about my lack of knowledge.

I posted an rx7 kill with an mr2. You show me one.

DaiOni

rotaries are inherantly cheaper engines to modify. That should be obvious (shouldn't it).

you can claim x driver can't look after y engine - but that has nothing to do with the engine itself.

as for JGTC, you are aware that the cars you are referring to are JT300 class? and that they use the engine as it is the best choice due to the parity regulations?

Again, you are talking about true race cars - I fail to see the relevance of the point.

Again, I'll throw the street tuning circuit back in your face. Where is the mr2????? I'll add that these cars are more powerful than the parity restriced JGTC.

dreamer!

I'm a big fan of mr2s but you are not doing the mr2 owner community any favors. sorry.

ps: did I mention snap oversteer?

sub9lulu

iTrader: (7)

well .... i think FD price is a double of MR2
right ?

13bpower

Turbo MR2's run about 7-12k where I live. FD 10k+

kwikrx7

I think 45 psi is correct about the MR2's engine being very capable of producing large amounts of power and boost. As far as reliability goes, the MR2 owns. But you are definitely biased as are all on this board. I can't stand when threads start getting into the typical debate of J-spec cars because as earlier stated..we are not in Japan.

The 200 hp/ 200 tq MR2-T is no comparison for the 255 hp/ 217 tq FD at roughly the same weight - this should not be argued. When modified, anything can be fast. But you definitely see MANY more fast RX7s than MR2s. I know there are MR2s out there that are monsters but not many.

RX7s do have heat issues and reliability problems and can be corrected. To make real power, the motor needs to be ported where the MR2 can run big power on stock internals. I have a friend with a 91 MR2-T that has 170K on the motor and just replaced his stock CT-26 turbo - great car. But I don't think anyone can argue that the RX7 has more overall performance and appeal than a MR2 does - just my 2c

DaiOni

I agree - toyota is the king of reliability and build some seriously strong bottom ends.

But it's ridiculuous to say that it's cheaper to make the numbers with that engine. Bottom end is one thing...

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Don't the MR2's have a problem with burning up piston 3 at about 350 hp?

IIRC you have to build a new intake
, to make more power without frying no 3.

I like MR2's, but like the Supra better. The FD is in a class by itself.

EricM

Ah, so we are comparing JDM vs JDM ?

Let me start then,
That's how your almighty, all-conquering Supra big brother did, and that's not the first time. Furthermore, your godly MR2 is not even there to qualify the times.

ZeroBanger, please finish this off.

EricM

http://www.supraforums.com/showthrea...hreadid=131491

45psi

Ok so whats your point. The dude can't drive.

No I do not think I am biased. I came on here to defend false accusations givin by narrow minded people. I see some people on here do know about mr2's, but on the other hand 90% do not.

My point is you have to build an rx7 to be up to a stock mr2. Who cares what the stock number show. Those are just numbers. Toyota have always underated there cars, don't be fooled by Toyotas stock claims of 200hp. At our recent gathering, atleast 6 mr2's dynoed at over 192 at the wheels on a stock motor.

Mr2's can range in price from 3000-18,000 US dollars. My friend just sold his 91 mr2 with 84,000 miles for 15,200.

45psi

This is a direct quote from the mr2 forums.

Topic: Mr2 vs RX7





Let me take this one guys...
I have owned 6 RX-7's. All of them 2nd gen cars. 3 Turbo II's, 2 N/A's, 1 LT1 RX-7 (still own), and 1 Vert (still own).
On the other hand, I have owned 1 1991 Mr2 turbo (haven't driven yet). I can honestly say without a shadow of a doubt, get the MR2. Its a MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH nicer and will be a MUCH MUCH more reliable performing car.
In case you want my credentials:
-88 Turbo II stock motor, stock turbo, stock intercooler 13.3 @ 104.5
-added greddy intercooler and stock V trim T4 compressor for 12.8 @ 111 mph (blew 1 motor on this setup)
-Full T04 with stock motor and big intercooler 12.4 @ 116 (blew 2 motors on this setup)
-Lt1 RX7 w/ 6 speed 12.5 @ 110 (stock Lt1 w/ cats and manifolds)

There, thats the performance numbers, and RX-7's are quite amazingly cheap to get into 13's, but I am telling you get the toyota.

Don't get me wrong, there will always be a place in my heart for a ported rotary pushing 350+ rwhp, but I can't afford it in college with a wife (also in college) and a 2 year old son.

Patrick Harris


Last edited by harrisracing on July 6th, 2003 at 11:59 PM

This is from a guy that hasn't even driven his mr2 yet. There you go, from someone that has owned 6 rx7's.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Well yippee. An FD will outperform a similarly modded MR2, hands down. Drag Strip, road course, autocross, top end highway pull. So, I'll ask one more time: wanna race ?

45psi

No I do not want to run, by looking at you sig you would need about 2-300 more hp to even have try to hang with me. If you want, I will turn the boost down and we will go top end. But I warn you, this could get ugly!