Tube Chassis 20B RX8 "PIC"
01-04-05, 07:47 PM
#1
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Tube Chassis 20B RX8 "PIC"
Well it looks like the rotaries will enter in the GT class this year. I read somewhere that first race is Feb 5-6, but I have no idea where. I'm just getting into the road racing stuff, so I don't know much
I know that Ron tambourine and Goldin brothers will both enter RX8's this year. I'm trying to find all the info I can, but if you guys have any new pics and info please post here.
Thanks
Luis
Goldin Brothers rx8
Tambourine
Edit: Looks like Feb 3-6 is the 24 Hours of Daytona. I'll be sure to take pics
http://www.grand-am.com/Events/EntryList.asp?EventID=73
I know that Ron tambourine and Goldin brothers will both enter RX8's this year. I'm trying to find all the info I can, but if you guys have any new pics and info please post here.
Thanks
Luis
Goldin Brothers rx8
Tambourine
Yes, we are the same team that had the Miata at the 24hr in 2001, but missed the field due to a piece of metal in the fuel regulator during the last sesson. We did run a few more races at Mid Ohio and Road America before deciding that we just could not compete against the Porsche's, V8 BMW's and the Mosler's.
Our car will be different from the Golden's in the basic design. We are building a tube frame chassis and hanging the sheet metal body on it. We are not starting with a tub car. Also, we will be using a transaxle with IRS. We will attempt to make the 24 hr. but prefer to sort and test before bringing the car out.
I am very excited about returning to the GT class in the Grand Am and feel the cars has great potential to be a front runner.
I too remember the great days in the 1980's. Mazda had over 100 wins in IMSA. Hopefully we can start a new decade of success.
Our car will be different from the Golden's in the basic design. We are building a tube frame chassis and hanging the sheet metal body on it. We are not starting with a tub car. Also, we will be using a transaxle with IRS. We will attempt to make the 24 hr. but prefer to sort and test before bringing the car out.
I am very excited about returning to the GT class in the Grand Am and feel the cars has great potential to be a front runner.
I too remember the great days in the 1980's. Mazda had over 100 wins in IMSA. Hopefully we can start a new decade of success.
Edit: Looks like Feb 3-6 is the 24 Hours of Daytona. I'll be sure to take pics
http://www.grand-am.com/Events/EntryList.asp?EventID=73
Last edited by luiml73; 01-04-05 at 08:11 PM.
01-04-05, 08:16 PM
#3
That would likely be the Rolex 24, sanctioned by Grand Am, held Feb 3-6 at Daytona. I might actually be there crewing for a GT team (not sure which) but I haven't heard back from the crewchief, so maybe that fell through.
01-04-05, 08:49 PM
#6
Well, I got my way after all!!!
the second race of the Grand Am will be held down here in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic.
Just this weekend I found out that the ST class was not coming. I was angry I was not going to be able to see the RX8 run.
But now this puts a smile back on my face.
the second race of the Grand Am will be held down here in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic.
Just this weekend I found out that the ST class was not coming. I was angry I was not going to be able to see the RX8 run.
But now this puts a smile back on my face.
01-04-05, 09:08 PM
#7
Now that will get me out to the track to spectate. He will be going against the M3's which kicked butt last year with Auberleen and Said; but that team has yet to announce this year's drivers. Plus the Ferrari's and Porsche's are a handful but I have confidence the Rx-8 will not let us down.
Schedule is here:
http://www.grand-am.com/Events/
The Rx-8 GT is in the Rolex class. Can't wait till April 1-3 @ Cal Speedway!
Defending GT champions Prototype Technology Group has entered a pair of BMW M3s for Daytona Test Days, and plans to announce its driver lineup in the coming days. The Racer's Group, which claimed an overall and GT class victory in the 2003 Rolex 24 At Daytona will feature a six-car lineup that includes a trio of 16-year-olds, an all-Canadian team and an all-Japanese team.
Also driving TRG Porsches will be 2004 Rolex 24 At Daytona GT class winners Jay and Joe Policastro, who will share the No. 64 Porsche GT3 Cup with Portugal's Miguel Amaral and Pedro Couceiro, as well as the No. 65 entry of team owner/driver Kevin Buckler, Hugh Plumb, Carlos de Quesada and 2004 Rolex Series Super Grand Sport (SGS) co-champion drivers Marc Bunting and Andy Lally. The 2004 SGS champion team will also be present and accounted for in the new GT class, as TPC Racing has entered three Porsche GT3 Cup machines.
The GT field will also feature the No. 08 Mazda RX-8 entered by Goldin Brothers Racing and driven by Steve and Keith Goldin and Scott Finlay, the No. 11 JMB Racing USA Ferrari 360 of Matt Plumb, Anthony Pinto and Jim Michaelian, the No. 23 Horizon Motorsports Pontiac GTO of Charles Espenlaub and Kris Szekeres and Chevrolet Corvettes from Michael Baughman Racing (No. 46, to be driven this weekend by Michael Baughman) and the No. 55 ASC Motorsports Corvette of Zach Arnold.
Also driving TRG Porsches will be 2004 Rolex 24 At Daytona GT class winners Jay and Joe Policastro, who will share the No. 64 Porsche GT3 Cup with Portugal's Miguel Amaral and Pedro Couceiro, as well as the No. 65 entry of team owner/driver Kevin Buckler, Hugh Plumb, Carlos de Quesada and 2004 Rolex Series Super Grand Sport (SGS) co-champion drivers Marc Bunting and Andy Lally. The 2004 SGS champion team will also be present and accounted for in the new GT class, as TPC Racing has entered three Porsche GT3 Cup machines.
The GT field will also feature the No. 08 Mazda RX-8 entered by Goldin Brothers Racing and driven by Steve and Keith Goldin and Scott Finlay, the No. 11 JMB Racing USA Ferrari 360 of Matt Plumb, Anthony Pinto and Jim Michaelian, the No. 23 Horizon Motorsports Pontiac GTO of Charles Espenlaub and Kris Szekeres and Chevrolet Corvettes from Michael Baughman Racing (No. 46, to be driven this weekend by Michael Baughman) and the No. 55 ASC Motorsports Corvette of Zach Arnold.
http://www.grand-am.com/Events/
The Rx-8 GT is in the Rolex class. Can't wait till April 1-3 @ Cal Speedway!
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01-04-05, 11:41 PM
#11
Mad Man
I wonder what that kind of technology cost$$$$$$? Unbelievable, makes you wonder if Grassroots guys could be competitive at all? Anyway, glad to see such a series come to life, hope it lasts, there are alot of Crazy "RX7s" in the Austrailian series...
01-05-05, 06:50 AM
#13
Lives on the Forum
I hope it goes fast because that is one trick looking racecar. I still don't see how they'll be horsepower competitive without heavily penalizing the other cars.
01-05-05, 10:06 AM
#14
Ex fd *****
Originally Posted by DamonB
I hope it goes fast because that is one trick looking racecar. I still don't see how they'll be horsepower competitive without heavily penalizing the other cars.
I think they get to run a p-port 20b like Amemeya' GT300 RX-7 in the JGTC
01-05-05, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by DamonB
I hope it goes fast because that is one trick looking racecar. I still don't see how they'll be horsepower competitive without heavily penalizing the other cars.
Clearly shows that Mazda can't compete with production based, non-tube frame 911s, M3s or 360s. Even with the tube frame, I predict that they'll still get thier asses kicked- unless forced induction is allowed.
Gene
01-05-05, 11:56 AM
#17
2-18 Mazda RX8 (Prep 2)
2-18.1 20B Cosmo three rotor (Mazda Spec parts).
2-18.2 Six-speed transmission.
2-18.3 Maximum body width is 73.5 inches.
2-18.4 Front tire 245 /645/18
2-18.5 Additional specifications - TBD.
3-3.7 Cylinder heads must retain the same number and location of intake and exhaust ports,
valves, spark plugs, and camshafts (if used) as the production engine. Valve location,
valve size and angles must remain stock as on the approved production heads.
3-7.1 The intake system (manifold, and/or throttle body/air box) must remain as approved on
the approved engine.
says nothing specific about rotary engine ports so I would have to assume it is the same as piston engine port requirements...............
So no bridge or periph porting on the 20b????
for comparison
2-5 BMW E46 (Prep 1)
2-5.1 2000-2005 E46
2-5.2 M-3 bodywork allowed.
2-5.3 3.2 liter S54-B32 engine with 11.5:1 compression, minimum weight of piston, rod
complete:910 gms.
2-5.4 Camshaft is free.
2-5.5 Any non-sequential transmission allowed .Fabricated bell-housing allowed.
2-5.6 31 12 7 497-498 front control arm, 33 32 2 229 685-686 rear trailing arm, fabricated
upper rear and lower track arm allowed. Inner wheel well modification for tire clearance
2-5.7 Prep 2 calipers and 360mm rotors allowed
2-5.8 Minimum weight is 2600 lbs.
2-18.1 20B Cosmo three rotor (Mazda Spec parts).
2-18.2 Six-speed transmission.
2-18.3 Maximum body width is 73.5 inches.
2-18.4 Front tire 245 /645/18
2-18.5 Additional specifications - TBD.
3-3.7 Cylinder heads must retain the same number and location of intake and exhaust ports,
valves, spark plugs, and camshafts (if used) as the production engine. Valve location,
valve size and angles must remain stock as on the approved production heads.
3-7.1 The intake system (manifold, and/or throttle body/air box) must remain as approved on
the approved engine.
says nothing specific about rotary engine ports so I would have to assume it is the same as piston engine port requirements...............
So no bridge or periph porting on the 20b????for comparison
2-5 BMW E46 (Prep 1)
2-5.1 2000-2005 E46
2-5.2 M-3 bodywork allowed.
2-5.3 3.2 liter S54-B32 engine with 11.5:1 compression, minimum weight of piston, rod
complete:910 gms.
2-5.4 Camshaft is free.
2-5.5 Any non-sequential transmission allowed .Fabricated bell-housing allowed.
2-5.6 31 12 7 497-498 front control arm, 33 32 2 229 685-686 rear trailing arm, fabricated
upper rear and lower track arm allowed. Inner wheel well modification for tire clearance
2-5.7 Prep 2 calipers and 360mm rotors allowed
2-5.8 Minimum weight is 2600 lbs.
Last edited by DriveFast7; 01-05-05 at 12:02 PM.
01-05-05, 12:07 PM
#18
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by gfelber
I disagree. This is pure garbage. Grand-Am (once again) and Mazda goes NASCAR. This car has as much in common with a stock RX-8 as a Winston Cup cars have with their street counterparts. If they're going to use a 20B, probably less so.
Clearly shows that Mazda can't compete with production based, non-tube frame 911s, M3s or 360s. Even with the tube frame, I predict that they'll still get thier asses kicked- unless forced induction is allowed.
Gene
Clearly shows that Mazda can't compete with production based, non-tube frame 911s, M3s or 360s. Even with the tube frame, I predict that they'll still get thier asses kicked- unless forced induction is allowed.
Gene
Of course an RX-8 can't compete with a 911, M3 or 360; those are not market or price competitors and are powerful sports cars. The idea behind the series is to attract teams and because costs are so crazy in all forms of racing that can be tough. One solution is to have fewer individual classes and instead handicap the faster cars and allow the slower cars more mods so overall the field is competitive. It's worked well with the SPEED World Challenge for instance. These cars are all production based chassis and motors but the rules for each specific car in the same class are wildly different and even change throughout the season. I don't like it but it seems economics doesn't leave us much choice.
http://www.world-challenge.com/carfacts.html
01-05-05, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DamonB
I think you're missing the point. This new class is no different than NASCAR or Trans Am in that the chassis and suspension is custom and shares no parts with the real car other than some bodywork or in most cases merely the likeness of the bodywork. It's just an RX-8 body with a rotary motor just as the other brands in the class will be nothing but a body and an engine block.
Of course an RX-8 can't compete with a 911, M3 or 360; those are not market or price competitors and are powerful sports cars. The idea behind the series is to attract teams and because costs are so crazy in all forms of racing that can be tough. One solution is to have fewer individual classes and instead handicap the faster cars and allow the slower cars more mods so overall the field is competitive. It's worked well with the SPEED World Challenge for instance. These cars are all production based chassis and motors but the rules for each specific car in the same class are wildly different and even change throughout the season. I don't like it but it seems economics doesn't leave us much choice.
http://www.world-challenge.com/carfacts.html
Of course an RX-8 can't compete with a 911, M3 or 360; those are not market or price competitors and are powerful sports cars. The idea behind the series is to attract teams and because costs are so crazy in all forms of racing that can be tough. One solution is to have fewer individual classes and instead handicap the faster cars and allow the slower cars more mods so overall the field is competitive. It's worked well with the SPEED World Challenge for instance. These cars are all production based chassis and motors but the rules for each specific car in the same class are wildly different and even change throughout the season. I don't like it but it seems economics doesn't leave us much choice.
http://www.world-challenge.com/carfacts.html
My "point" is that it's hard to get excited about a tube frame silhouette RX-8 competing among a mixed class of unibody and non-unibody cars with, apparently, rules that allow for non-production based motors. At the very minimum there should be seperate class for these cars.
We've see this time and time again through the years as an effort to "control costs" and allow private teams to be enter and be competitive. Unfortunately, history has also shown us that is NOT the case as it egregiously facilitates rules creep (Anyone remember the previous iteration of IMSA?). Cripes, enter the name of your favorite sanctioning body here. Those with the resources to take advantage of loopholes will always prevail. Even the idiots at Grand-Am should know this a la Daytona Prototype cars. If you recall, that was the primary reason for creating that class. These cars are now more expensive than previous year's prototypes such as the 333SP, Crawford, Riely & Scott cars, etc. and the costs are climbing at a highly nonlinear rate.
Unlike World Challenge, the combination of Prep 1 (unibody) and Prep 2 (tube frame) classes further exacerbates the concept of a level playing field, as adjustments must be made on a less than empirical basis. This is somewhat analagous to the issues with the Caddy mods in World Challenge. Look where that went.
Of course, Grand-Am's Rolex series is hurting financially and is certainly not a place where the top dogs compete, so it may be the case that the teams with deep pockets are no longer interested.
Gene
01-05-05, 01:54 PM
#20
i feel your pain Gene,
So long as fans want to watch racing that includes cars that look like what they can drive on the street, handicapping and equivalency will be problem... Particularly if you're interested in keeping more than one or two makes competitive. Otherwise, there will always be a natural "car to have" for any set of rules, because these cars weren't designed to a formula in their production life... won't matter if they are tube-framed sillhouette racers or "unibody" cars... there will either be bitching and lobbying over silhoette profiles, ala NASCAR, or somebody lobbying for "cheater" motors like the V8 M3's a few years ago.
However, if they are going to let this race with unibody cars, it would be a new low. Even ALMS makes the distinction between the silhouttes and the production-based cars. I know GA basically doesn't allow turbos as a cost-cutting measure, but i'm not sure it wouldn't be better to allow them, and just adjust boost levels insead of alloowing p-port 20B's, and other exotic stuff. Turbos aren't as expensive a proposition as they used to be... heck there are privateers making 1000 hp from turbo 1.8 litres on the drag racing circuit for goodness sake. Thats yester-years multi-million doallar F1 motor.
So long as fans want to watch racing that includes cars that look like what they can drive on the street, handicapping and equivalency will be problem... Particularly if you're interested in keeping more than one or two makes competitive. Otherwise, there will always be a natural "car to have" for any set of rules, because these cars weren't designed to a formula in their production life... won't matter if they are tube-framed sillhouette racers or "unibody" cars... there will either be bitching and lobbying over silhoette profiles, ala NASCAR, or somebody lobbying for "cheater" motors like the V8 M3's a few years ago.
However, if they are going to let this race with unibody cars, it would be a new low. Even ALMS makes the distinction between the silhouttes and the production-based cars. I know GA basically doesn't allow turbos as a cost-cutting measure, but i'm not sure it wouldn't be better to allow them, and just adjust boost levels insead of alloowing p-port 20B's, and other exotic stuff. Turbos aren't as expensive a proposition as they used to be... heck there are privateers making 1000 hp from turbo 1.8 litres on the drag racing circuit for goodness sake. Thats yester-years multi-million doallar F1 motor.
Originally Posted by gfelber
Perhaps. The original thread was a revelation about the RX-8 in the GA Rolex series GT which, to date, hasn't allowed tube frame cars in this class (yes, I know about AGT).
My "point" is that it's hard to get excited about a tube frame silhouette RX-8 competing among a mixed class of unibody and non-unibody cars with, apparently, rules that allow for non-production based motors. At the very minimum there should be seperate class for these cars.
We've see this time and time again through the years as an effort to "control costs" and allow private teams to be enter and be competitive. Unfortunately, history has also shown us that is NOT the case as it egregiously facilitates rules creep (Anyone remember the previous iteration of IMSA?). Cripes, enter the name of your favorite sanctioning body here. Those with the resources to take advantage of loopholes will always prevail. Even the idiots at Grand-Am should know this a la Daytona Prototype cars. If you recall, that was the primary reason for creating that class. These cars are now more expensive than previous year's prototypes such as the 333SP, Crawford, Riely & Scott cars, etc. and the costs are climbing at a highly nonlinear rate.
Unlike World Challenge, the combination of Prep 1 (unibody) and Prep 2 (tube frame) classes further exacerbates the concept of a level playing field, as adjustments must be made on a less than empirical basis. This is somewhat analagous to the issues with the Caddy mods in World Challenge. Look where that went.
Of course, Grand-Am's Rolex series is hurting financially and is certainly not a place where the top dogs compete, so it may be the case that the teams with deep pockets are no longer interested.
Gene
My "point" is that it's hard to get excited about a tube frame silhouette RX-8 competing among a mixed class of unibody and non-unibody cars with, apparently, rules that allow for non-production based motors. At the very minimum there should be seperate class for these cars.
We've see this time and time again through the years as an effort to "control costs" and allow private teams to be enter and be competitive. Unfortunately, history has also shown us that is NOT the case as it egregiously facilitates rules creep (Anyone remember the previous iteration of IMSA?). Cripes, enter the name of your favorite sanctioning body here. Those with the resources to take advantage of loopholes will always prevail. Even the idiots at Grand-Am should know this a la Daytona Prototype cars. If you recall, that was the primary reason for creating that class. These cars are now more expensive than previous year's prototypes such as the 333SP, Crawford, Riely & Scott cars, etc. and the costs are climbing at a highly nonlinear rate.
Unlike World Challenge, the combination of Prep 1 (unibody) and Prep 2 (tube frame) classes further exacerbates the concept of a level playing field, as adjustments must be made on a less than empirical basis. This is somewhat analagous to the issues with the Caddy mods in World Challenge. Look where that went.
Of course, Grand-Am's Rolex series is hurting financially and is certainly not a place where the top dogs compete, so it may be the case that the teams with deep pockets are no longer interested.
Gene
01-06-05, 07:19 PM
#24
People will find a reason to bitch about anything so I'm bitching about that.
I'm really just glad the rotary engine is expanding within the racing community once again, regardless of the platform.
I'm really just glad the rotary engine is expanding within the racing community once again, regardless of the platform.
Last edited by RX-Heven; 01-06-05 at 07:22 PM.
01-07-05, 10:18 AM
#25
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I'm really just glad the rotary engine is expanding within the racing community once again, regardless of the platform
Last edited by luiml73; 01-07-05 at 10:26 AM.