Power FC Any before/after dyno results out there?
04-09-09, 01:06 PM
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Any before/after dyno results out there?
I'm looking for some before/after dyno results. Preferable, stock, base map with FC, and then after some tweaking. Thanks in advance and sorry if this has already been posted. Searched but didn't find anything.
04-09-09, 02:18 PM
#2
most people who put a PFC in have a decent amount of mods to their car. a PFC + tune is getting close to $1000, so you won't find it on basically stock vehicles much.
why don't you tell us your setup and what you are really looking for? what is the bigger thing that you want for your car? just a modest power gain? reliability? driveability?
why don't you tell us your setup and what you are really looking for? what is the bigger thing that you want for your car? just a modest power gain? reliability? driveability?
04-09-09, 05:05 PM
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most people who put a PFC in have a decent amount of mods to their car. a PFC + tune is getting close to $1000, so you won't find it on basically stock vehicles much.
why don't you tell us your setup and what you are really looking for? what is the bigger thing that you want for your car? just a modest power gain? reliability? driveability?
why don't you tell us your setup and what you are really looking for? what is the bigger thing that you want for your car? just a modest power gain? reliability? driveability?
04-09-09, 09:04 PM
#4
400 hp and DD is hard to achieve. It is possible but do your research. Read BDC's posts on tuning, Chuck Westbrooks advice on tuning, ARGHX's advice and so forth.
Honestly I am about to dyno and I think I am just gonna shoot for 350-360rwhp. Those numbers in the light weight FC are barely useable on the street, meaning besides the quick pulls to the speed limit and so forth you will never use all that power on the street all the time. Not to mention 360rwhp is FAST in the FC.
I wish you the best of luck with your build and your statement about relability is key to tune is true for the most part, just control heat, boost and timing and you should be golden......granted you have a good solid engine to work from.
I am still learning but if you have any questions I would be happy to answer and i won't BS you if I don't know the answer.
Honestly I am about to dyno and I think I am just gonna shoot for 350-360rwhp. Those numbers in the light weight FC are barely useable on the street, meaning besides the quick pulls to the speed limit and so forth you will never use all that power on the street all the time. Not to mention 360rwhp is FAST in the FC.
I wish you the best of luck with your build and your statement about relability is key to tune is true for the most part, just control heat, boost and timing and you should be golden......granted you have a good solid engine to work from.
I am still learning but if you have any questions I would be happy to answer and i won't BS you if I don't know the answer.
04-10-09, 12:47 AM
#5
if you are getting an FD, get one with good compression, minimum modifications (as little hacked up wiring or emissions removal as possible especially) and a clean interior, preferably 94-95 model year. install a downpipe and metal air separation tank first. drive the car around for a while on stock ECU or near stock, and get used to the way it handles and such. On the factory ECU you can't even put a full exhaust on an FD without risking a lean mixture, and boost creep is a major problem without wastegate modifications and other tricks.
If it were me and I wanted mid 300s, I would pull the motor (if you have a garage with room) and go full non sequential--unless you are positive the sequential system is running great and you can handle a full vacuum routing job. I say pull the motor because it will actually be FASTER and EASIER to pull the motor and try to do the non sequential process than do it with it in the car. The more experienced among us don't need to do that. But for a beginner, everything is so tight in there, accessibility is so shitty, that working with the motor on the stand will be a lot easier and less frustrating. Pulling a motor sounds intimidating if you've never done it before, but working on an FD in those conditions is actually much harder. Once you have gone full non sequential (as opposed to "poor man's" non sequential, do a search) accessibility will improve drastically.
With full non sequential you will be able to get up to about 350rwhp on stock ports which is plenty fast.
As far as tuning goes, if the car you get is close to stock I would go with a chipped ECU (Petit) at first. Get used to the car as I said. Then move on to the Power FC. Installing a Power FC is not like chipping a German car or getting Corvette tuned. You don't just mess with it for a couple hours and get a few hp from pull fuel and fiddling with the timing. The basemap will start and drive, but often it idles high/surges without tuning and throttlebody adjustment. Once you put a wideband on there you will realize just how rediculously rich it is.
The PFC is a full standalone, and on any full standalone the idle and driveability need to be tuned almost from scratch. Even the basemaps you download won't drive nearly as smooth as it did with the factory ECU, not without a lot of tuning. Getting consistent AFR's and a smooth idle under all conditions are the most challenging parts. Understanding how injector staging and the leading/trailing ignition systems work is also important.
Here is what I suggest you do, if you are genuinely looking to research about how this car works and know what you're getting yourself into. There is a sticky in the 3rd gen section about service manuals/documents.
Read this one first: http://www.wrex-racing.com/docs/fd/9...highlights.pdf
it gives a description of how most of the factory systems work. then study these vacuum routing diagrams, especially the stock one:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/vacuum-diagrams-stock-simplified-sequential-non-sequential-single-turbo-749702/
then download the factory service manual. In the FSM and service highlights document look up each sequential turbo actuator (charge control etc) and emissions system (evaporative purge control solenoid) and understand how each works. http://www.rx7.org/Robinette/index.htm also has good information.
After you have taken all that in, then what you read about the PFC will make more sense. There are tuning notes you can buy from cewrx7r1 . I think you can handle it. I taught myself how to tune and so did FC3s Murray here and a bunch of other guys. Just don't be intimidated. Spend 5-10 hours a week reading about it and it will slowly make sense. Rx-7's, especially FD's, are not for everyone. Either you end up an expert, you pay an assload for other people to work on it (many of whom don't know what they're doing), or you give up and sell it.
There's your homework. And if all that does intimidate you to the point of giving you second thoughts, you better get a different car--and I'm saying that for your benefit, not to be somehow "elitist."
If it were me and I wanted mid 300s, I would pull the motor (if you have a garage with room) and go full non sequential--unless you are positive the sequential system is running great and you can handle a full vacuum routing job. I say pull the motor because it will actually be FASTER and EASIER to pull the motor and try to do the non sequential process than do it with it in the car. The more experienced among us don't need to do that. But for a beginner, everything is so tight in there, accessibility is so shitty, that working with the motor on the stand will be a lot easier and less frustrating. Pulling a motor sounds intimidating if you've never done it before, but working on an FD in those conditions is actually much harder. Once you have gone full non sequential (as opposed to "poor man's" non sequential, do a search) accessibility will improve drastically.
With full non sequential you will be able to get up to about 350rwhp on stock ports which is plenty fast.
As far as tuning goes, if the car you get is close to stock I would go with a chipped ECU (Petit) at first. Get used to the car as I said. Then move on to the Power FC. Installing a Power FC is not like chipping a German car or getting Corvette tuned. You don't just mess with it for a couple hours and get a few hp from pull fuel and fiddling with the timing. The basemap will start and drive, but often it idles high/surges without tuning and throttlebody adjustment. Once you put a wideband on there you will realize just how rediculously rich it is.
The PFC is a full standalone, and on any full standalone the idle and driveability need to be tuned almost from scratch. Even the basemaps you download won't drive nearly as smooth as it did with the factory ECU, not without a lot of tuning. Getting consistent AFR's and a smooth idle under all conditions are the most challenging parts. Understanding how injector staging and the leading/trailing ignition systems work is also important.
Here is what I suggest you do, if you are genuinely looking to research about how this car works and know what you're getting yourself into. There is a sticky in the 3rd gen section about service manuals/documents.
Read this one first: http://www.wrex-racing.com/docs/fd/9...highlights.pdf
it gives a description of how most of the factory systems work. then study these vacuum routing diagrams, especially the stock one:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/vacuum-diagrams-stock-simplified-sequential-non-sequential-single-turbo-749702/
then download the factory service manual. In the FSM and service highlights document look up each sequential turbo actuator (charge control etc) and emissions system (evaporative purge control solenoid) and understand how each works. http://www.rx7.org/Robinette/index.htm also has good information.
After you have taken all that in, then what you read about the PFC will make more sense. There are tuning notes you can buy from cewrx7r1 . I think you can handle it. I taught myself how to tune and so did FC3s Murray here and a bunch of other guys. Just don't be intimidated. Spend 5-10 hours a week reading about it and it will slowly make sense. Rx-7's, especially FD's, are not for everyone. Either you end up an expert, you pay an assload for other people to work on it (many of whom don't know what they're doing), or you give up and sell it.
There's your homework. And if all that does intimidate you to the point of giving you second thoughts, you better get a different car--and I'm saying that for your benefit, not to be somehow "elitist."
04-10-09, 05:20 AM
#6
most people who put a PFC in have a decent amount of mods to their car. a PFC + tune is getting close to $1000, so you won't find it on basically stock vehicles much.
why don't you tell us your setup and what you are really looking for? what is the bigger thing that you want for your car? just a modest power gain? reliability? driveability?
why don't you tell us your setup and what you are really looking for? what is the bigger thing that you want for your car? just a modest power gain? reliability? driveability?
They are installed on "basically stock vehicles" all the time. Once a downpipe, catback and intake are installed, the mods have outgrown the stock ECU. This is NOT a "decent amount" of mods.
Installing a PFC on a "basically stock" FD is one of the best things you can do for it. This allows the car to modified and tuned correctly during the build up process, it also allows control over such functions as turning the cooling fans on early, all of this greatly extends the life of the motor. Modifing the car until the breaking point, then installing engine management is just plain stupid.
There is a subforum for dyno sheets, from no mods to single turbo https://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-dyno-121/dyno-graphs-229717/
Last edited by Banzai-Racing; 04-10-09 at 05:41 AM.
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04-10-09, 09:48 AM
#8
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My car was not stock for this, however I do have what you're looking for.
I had a DP, Intakes, High-flow cat, Apexi N1 duals, and GReddy SMIC for these dyno charts iirc.
The 240 was wheel horsepower. Keep in mind that Dyno Dynamics brand dyno's show numbers ranging from 15%-18% lower than the average dyno used in the states.
Un-tuned flywheel HP and torque.
The tune happened about a week after that first run, the HP listed afterwards is wheel horsepower. This was just an initial tune that I had done before installing BNR's and going off the deep end with enough support mods to happily run a single at full charge ^_^
I had a DP, Intakes, High-flow cat, Apexi N1 duals, and GReddy SMIC for these dyno charts iirc.
The 240 was wheel horsepower. Keep in mind that Dyno Dynamics brand dyno's show numbers ranging from 15%-18% lower than the average dyno used in the states.
Un-tuned flywheel HP and torque.
The tune happened about a week after that first run, the HP listed afterwards is wheel horsepower. This was just an initial tune that I had done before installing BNR's and going off the deep end with enough support mods to happily run a single at full charge ^_^
04-10-09, 02:19 PM
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Thanks everyone for your comments/advice. It really helps. Special thanks to arghx. Yes, it would be a FD. I will definitely take your advice and read more. I'm deployed until March 2010, so I have plenty of time to research...haha. Thanks again and I look forward to getting my hands dirty...eventually.
04-10-09, 05:23 PM
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Welcome back yourself. Yep, I'm doing some pre-deployment training right now for another 2 months, then finally get to get over there. Thank you as well.
04-10-09, 09:24 PM
#12
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Don't be overly brave in your last couple weeks before leaving, I saw too many people killed with only 2 weeks left in country
04-11-09, 01:06 AM
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Good luck out there, what are you going there to do? I had *literally* 3 days warning (from absolutely no chance of deployment, to boarding a plane for Benning) before I went out there in the summer of '07. I got lucky as hell though, because I got cut NATO orders. NATO is cake/fun.
Don't be overly brave in your last couple weeks before leaving, I saw too many people killed with only 2 weeks left in country
Don't be overly brave in your last couple weeks before leaving, I saw too many people killed with only 2 weeks left in country
I'm AF and going as part of a PRT(Provincial Reconstruction Team). I'm in communications and will be the working with/for the S6( I think Army term) over there. I luckily had quite a bit of time prior to me actually leaving for this one. I just can't wait to get back and get a FD. Thanks again for the good words/info all.
04-11-09, 07:21 AM
#14
I just posted some before and after results here. With stock PFC map, and two retunes.
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=360
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=360
04-11-09, 12:43 PM
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I just posted some before and after results here. With stock PFC map, and two retunes.
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=360
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=360
Nice #s. Especially on the stock 100K mile motor.
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