bumpstart

back in my country i think viewers will be drop jawed by your barn find
.. rx3 wagons never sold here
.. but had that been a rx3 sedan or coupe dragged out of a barn in that condition then it would be a trophy worthy of bragging rights

beyond some cosmetic stuff ( dents on guards and bumpers ).. it is remarkably all there.. and functional

these cars are notorious for rust around windscreen base, lower front guard and rear wheel arches.. being a wagon.. add rust around the glass edges of tailgate

yours shows only the issue at bottom of guards,, and it is not too bad and frankly the easiest to fix
being original paint it hold no secrets and is a straight up honest purchase //

you may wish to unbolt the lower part of each front guard and release the dirt and rust trapped between guard and chassis rail
.. to prevent further deterioration of the cap on the end of the rail .
you may also wish to do some preventative work for now knocking out some rust where visible and sealing it with acid convertor or fish oils

the bumpers may be tricky to find NOS..
you may wish to get a good hammer guy onto the ones you have
.. but the tail lights i expect you can find as NOS or repro via phils rotaries in australia

beyond a little bit of body work.. and a motor refresh ( also not sure if you have twin dizzy 10a or 12a there ) .. and nothing that was not expected ..
.. then i think you scored a classic that is is remarkably complete condition


shame we are not more local.. as i have a 808/ rx3 seat in great nick right here !!
PS
if the engine is 10A.. it can be tricky to get seals and bearings for .. bearings are avail via goopy
.. and if you ask nicely i ( may ) be able to convince someone locally to let go some apex seal springs ( and maybe seals ) as i know they hold possibly the very last NOS parts for 10a

gerald m

Body plate says it's a 12A , The Tranny if it makes any difference in what things are is a 4 speed ( it has a removable aluminum pan ) compression is very low 40-45 lb but seems even , all sides seem to have something at least. I don't think the engine is hurt , I think like a lot of these little cars no one knew how to make it run anymore so it was parked in the row with the rest .

Lots of little things need done if I am keeping , you know how it goes one thing leads on to more ..brakes , tie rod or two , tires , clutch , I did want to get the engine running first but with compression like that it would need a road tow at least. .

Three sets of points kinda threw me off guard . also the fact that when you pull the fuel pump fuze the ignition is cut too . I haven't found one place where a wire has been spliced into or cut and replaced everything is still in it's original holders and straps with the rubber boots covering the live posts .

One thing that I now understand is all these guys that have a starter issue , starter clicks but won't spin .. Now I see how things work ( the same thing happened with me ) the starter live cable was not making contact on the battery post clamp ( all corroded under strap )but the small wire that feeds the ignition switch etc. had power so it would make it seem like there was good power to make the starter click at the solenoid but there was no power there to make the starter turn .

I guess I would sell it if the price was right but me thinks it would be a shame to part it out considering the way things are . I need to find out about insurance and so on . I think here antique insurance is cheap and no safeties needed not sure though I check on line tonight .

FISH OIL !! are you screwing with me or what an Aussie joke maybe ? Dare I ask what kind of fish oil ?

Well if I keep it would be nice to have a good fender this one really sucks , its not just dented it's floppy pooched . YOU ALMOST HAVE ME CONVINCED , but I need a little more encouragement . Enough said for now Have a good one .

gerald m

This is a part of Gary's collection he , has two more buildings full some waiting to be finished some mint .

gerald m

A few more of Gary's cars .. Most of these are running between 550 and 750 HP He apologized for the dust . the chevy still has it's original paint . most of his stuff does

gerald m

just a couple more ,, sorry I didn't take the time to get the other two buildings .

bumpstart

serious collector there !... fishoil.. fishoilene,, are products that you spray on metal / rust and it will displace moisture and prevent air and moisture making corrosion worse .. it is the principle component in WD40;; invented to preserve all those surplus warbirds waiting for the crusher or resale ..

i dont think finding a guard will be too hard an issue..
bumpers yes,, and the nose cone yes,, will be tricky and maybe cheaper to get a good dolly man to repair what you have and re-chrome

in oz 12a versions start in 1974 and are single dizzy engines
.. twin dizzy in rx3 usually means a 10a

.. all no biggy as the 12a TD is still fairly easy to get bits for

,, and can at a pinch use later 12a parts .. they also are genuine 130 HP engines in final TD form
compression i expect will improve rapidly with a start up and idle .. the question is .. was it retired with a coolant seal issue?

//
and so i will just leave this here.. the finishing touches on a NOS rx3 resto and its first noise for 17 yrs
.. this is one of my build FD 13b engines
...retrofitted with weber 51 IDA clone carb.,
although the original 10a engine is also restored it will see no road time to keep it pristine and the kms will rack up instead on the 13b and weber carb..

vid is of the initial start ups on the new engine , plastic bag is the choke..
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bumpstart

ps . tannic acid and phosphoric acid kill rust will convert the rust back to a useable substrate but needs to be sealed and worked on more readily .. the fish oil will put the brakes on the corrosion till you is ready

.. either option is good,, depending on how quickly you wish to get onto it
my personal fav is the tannic based one.. and if you go fish oil.. be sure to get a de-odourised one

gerald m

that's not fair .. Yea I think maybe the acid if I use fish oil every dam cat in the neighborhood will be howling . I have decided to take the little engine out and take apart . If I can get away without buying rotors and housings and so on , just the consumables should run around 11 to 1200.00 cdn if I'm lucky then I will probably continue rebuild the engine , do brakes ,clutch master, and slave ,all wheel stuff if needed . It won't be as nice as the bumble bee but I think I can make it look respectable , a few cans of gravel guard underneath to seal it up and soundproof a tad , some of the aluminum parts I think I can just work by hand to reshape . remove fuel tank and clean , and just keep looking for tail lights and so on . No need to get into a panic it's not like I need it to get to work with or anything ..

I know this older guy in outlook that has a computer controlled machine that will make just about any shape plastic piece you can think of and any color. It is actually a very tiny glue gun that is programed I think on three axis . I know a dude that gets tapered gears made for his hockey game collection with a perfect fit on the shafts . hell of a thing to watch he use to have it set up in the window of his shop so you could watch it work .

strange little tag on left side of front engine rotor with a #1 on it here is the pic maybe it means something don;t know . also the rubber plug over the starter ring gear says TD on it if that means anything. gotta love the green plastic covered dip stack handle .

So I guess I'll see what the engine looks like and go from there . Maybe I should start another thread for the little car .

bumpstart

that is a remanufacture tag and it is intended to fall off if engine is overheated ..good news

gerald m

Pretty easy go removing the engine . Me thinks it's the all around easiest car I have ever worked on right in there with my old Saab for accessibility .

Haven't broke the engine down yet but just looking through the exhaust ports and down through the intake runners this is what it looks like to me , the center iron intake runners are clean and the end irons runners are very dirty , soft carbon, oily **** stuck to sides . Unless I'm reading things totally wrong the clean center iron is normal the dirty end iron runners are dirty because the lady that owned it ( I finally found a faded envelope with the lady's name on it addressed to the same town where I picked the car up. ) never opened it up and used the four barrel carb therefor never getting the intake runners for the end irons washed down . ( the stuff stuck to the sides was almost like oily fuzz )

apex seals on one rotor are loose the other has two stuck and one moving . I might take down the little engine tomorrow and see what up for sure but I'm thinking that the housings and rotors are in good condition , just lots of carbon and so on I don't think it could run anymore .if so I guess it's time to start ordering some parts . why is it that I can't find parts for the old 12a most only start at 79 and on or are they the same .

I am missing a part the mirror on the drivers door is gone .. rubbed the outside and dash down with mineral oil , amazing how it brought things back to life . Clutch is just getting to the rivets as expected . clutch surface on flywheel is very nice no wear marks no cracks . The engine was drained I see the block drain plug is missing .

I'll take a short video of the little engine when I take it down

bumpstart

the TD parts can be harder to find .. although for 12a there is still stock hidden out there if you nudge hard enough

the water seals are TD engine specific .. if you cant source them then the trick will be to make them up from viton off the roll ..
most of the other o rings etc are same between TD and SD
,, however exhaust and inlet and water pump gaskets may need to be hand made if you cannot source
( many ways to skin a cat )

the rotors may be twin side seal.. or if later engine ( it is ) then have single side seals and 6mm carbon apex seals
if the engine didn't leak coolant then expect the housings may be much better than you would expect ( carbon seals give them an easy time )


if the rotors prove hard to source bits for
( o control rings and single side seals are same as SD engine )
then you can use the 74-81 ( 1982 some markets ) rotors and still use the same engine bob weights and flywheel
using the late rotors and ( 3mm steel ) apex seals will wear the housing more but it is an accepted move to get the easier parts ( sometimes )

bumpstart

PS.... i know a guy over here with tail panel trims and the oz spec tail lights ( they are two colours here ).. so the stuff isnt too hard to track down

gerald m

yea just looking at the apex seals they look quite large and look almost white on the running edge . no sign of internal water even the plugs were free of coolant mung . Gaskets I have tapped out many when needed . I really don't like reusing engine parts like some do . so if I ordered a rebuild set for the 79 on most parts would fit then right providing they are single side seals not that I'm going to till I find out for sure what up . I have no problem importing parts I have bought and sold tons of antiques all over the world and am use to the shipping ordeals that can and do happen . Engine first , and collect parts when ever I get a chance to buy . I do have a man in ontario with a soft bumper I would be interested in , just waiting to hear back from him .

bumpstart

depends what you need out of the 79 kit..you cant use any hard seals but the side seals
buying the 79 kit will be a waste of money as the few things you need from it are avail separately ( via atkins ) .. cheaply

and personally ,, if you cant find an off shelf kit for TD
would think its much better to just order
oil control rings ( and chromes if needed )
rear stat o ring
side seals and side seal springs
rotor and stat bearings ( if required .. i expect not )

and then buy a JIS universal o ring kit ( about $20 ) for all the dowel and other o rings
and viton 2.4 and 2.0 off the roll for water seals
and then make your own inlet, timing cover water pump and zorsts gaskets
( whichever you cant find )


then you will have most of what you need for a refresh without busting the bank

i still think that if you looked just a little while you will find the entire soft kit you need
.. apex seals and springs and side seals usually have to be found separately form the soft kit

gerald m

The video is pretty much self explanatory, not much to add that matters ,.. most of the engine is very nice the rear rotor and end iron are a tad rough but I can fix it up . I'm more interested in why the problem with the rear rotor, and why it started to cause the galling on the side irons .

Can't find any evidence of any water leaking problems anywhere .

Me thinks the ports are very small in the 12a engine maybe I should be getting a set of templates for a port job when I order other things ???

beats me why there is so much clearance on the side seals , just thinking that maybe they were substituted from some other side seal application . what's your opinion bumpstart ?? Also always interested in what other old schoolers may have to say .

bumpstart

issue is with rotor land clearance.. an over rev has pushed the rotor gear out ,, a common issue in pre 86 engines which use less fixing pins for the gear

it may correct with a tap/ press of the gear in the right direction .. race engines of this type have circlipped rotor gear mods

the side seals ( on an open exhaust port engine with the air injection nozzels up through the sump ) are a bit of a surprise,, the later TD engines ( 73 ish ) are usually single side seal
( the twin side seal is more common in pre 1972 engines with the three hole exhaust ports )

i suspect those rotors went in during the reman and may not be original for the year

they also look like they have been poorly hand clearanced during the rebuild

these engines required the builder to hand finish the size and angle on the ends
.. later SD side seals are much more prefit and are almost ready off the shelf

.. if you port the engine you must be wary that the inner side seal may not be fully captive at its ends
and will thus nibble the ends off when they drop into the inlet port and are scissored off during the port close phase

as a result it is very common for the inner side seals to be left out entirely.. late motors do just fine on one set


your rear plate will require facing ( you can still find them NOS in the US ) and the rear rotor will need a love tap to push the rotor gear and then measured to work out if it useable

( some mobs can also machine sides of rotors to re-establish the rotor land clearances )

all in all ..looks OK .. at worst you need a rear plate.. and maybe a pair of rx7 rotors .. at best you need a machine of the plates and love taps for the rotor gear .. and new side seals

the hollow air injection nozzle bolts ( should you wish the air pump delete ) can be drawn out of the exhaust port via the sump area ... you weld them up and as blind and place them back in

gerald m

Checked the rotor for moved gear gave it a bit of a light press (No move ).

The gear was out past the rotor face a tiny bit so I set them both up in the lathe and took a few thou off the gear on both rotors .

I set the rear end plate up on my mill and planed a few thou off just to make smooth again same with rear face of center iron . they actually cleaned up very nice . (SEE PICS )

Some of the side seal springs were wore out to the point that when removed and held straight out just the weight of the spring caused them to bend down , a couple of them were wore out to the point that there were about 1 inch missing ( wonder where the heck they went to ) from the ends of the springs ,so me thinks when the engine was redone the dude never changed springs I'm betting on anything . Of course all the corner seals were stuck and the shitty little springs were squashed down flat against the bottom of the hole.



The last pic is the end rear end plate after cutting about 20 thou off the face

Yes when I rebuilt the #2 13b for the Dragon the side seals needed very little sizing to make a nice fit . I like the idea of one set of side seals , don't know weather I should be porting the little engine or not the more I think about it the more I feel I should leave alone and let it live a normal life .

I suppose once the rotor started to Gaul it just snowballs until there is grooves cut into the plate . but why both sides .

About the air pump delete does it just work on emissions or is there another reason that it is there , I thinking that it just injects air into the exhaust flow to help burn up exhaust emissions .

gerald m

Finally got some time to finish the dragon . wheeled him out to the porch and fired it up . Lots of smoke to start with but I noticed immediately that the engine ran totally different than last year . I was a one man band so didn't take any video shots .
It can idle down to 800 with the engine running SMOOTH much lower and it just looses it and dies . Up around 1000 RPM the engine starts to sound like a port job , maybe I took out more than I thought I did when I CLEANED UP the ports and runners .

Started it 5- 6 times and next time I hit the key the starter went to about 1/4 speed and did a little smoke show . Ordered one from NAPA for $144.00 with 40.00 core exchange . so I figure for 150.00 I have a starter that has warranty for 3 years . Had it apart last year and seems to me it only had 3 magnets on the housing instead of 4 .

All in all so far I am happy with the way things have turned out with the little engine . It does start hard ( I'll play with the timing put a light on it and see what is going on )but runs very nice also throttle response seems good and sharp and hits on all rotor faces . The headers had a little oil film on them and within 15 seconds the smoke started rolling off till it was burned up in short order .

The engine has 18 on rear and 19 inches of vacuum on front rotor I am going to try to get it down to 17 or 18 on both rotors with timing .

Oil pressure is just a little less than what I hoped for around 40 at idle and immediately JUMPS to 70 - 80 with throttle to around 3000 RPM and holds there as RPM climbs . I will get a video for you Bumpstart as soon as the new starter comes in so you can see how nice it runs compared to last year . At least I think it does .

Put a light on the dragon for the midnight drags . there is a bit of a low spot at the end of the track and when you go over the top it's very gradual but it gets blacker than the hubs of hell , it can be a little unnerving when you can't see .

the big O ring I put on the second pulley works very nice . ( not a quiver from it )

bumpstart

awesome.. 40 psi idle hot is fine .. 72 odd is the stock pressure reg setting .. a cold engine should make max pressure at just over 1000 rpm but drop to 30- 40 ish when the oil is hot

18 and 19 inch Hg is very good,.. usually drops lesser and lesser the more you port the engine or the worse the effective compression drops

if its falling off below 800 rpm.. set it for 1000 rpm..( hot) .. which is almost the default rpm everyone tries to achieve once they have opened the engine a little
.. expecting a stock 750 rpm without idle control and with a carb is not realistic

gerald m

All good news to me . I think I am going to undo my dist mod and do it the way with the washer so it can advance half way. For the short time it was running me thinks there is something not quite right with timing function , not just the ignition timing but the way the dist works . I will know better once I get him out and take him for a rip or two .

Oil is good no coolant there , coolant is good no oil there . everything seems fine as frogs hair . Andersonville Rally grass drags coming up in August another one in Kindersley next month.

By the way how the hell do you break in a engine that doesn't do 50 miles a year and nothing but WOT . fast I guess

bumpstart

.. if the bearings are reused then its already run mostly in
.. and its all about dumping that first batch of oil as quick as possible as it will be full of unseen nastys from the build or porting

if the bearings are new then you find the race teams will flap the bearing slightly.. or take 3 thou off all the crank journals to allow instant use

bumpstart

PS with ignition it is prudent to check timing both at idle.. and revved to 4k .. this is to rule out potentially getting the signal polarity back to front which may make an igniter retard with revs

gerald m

Havant had much time to work on the bike lately busy time of the year for my work . seems to run ok , there are a few little things left to do , but I think this one is a keeper .. Enjoy please feel free to comment . Geraldm.

gerald m

Still have a few issues . I will check the carb float and go from there . Changed over from 2 trailing coils to 1 leading coil with hookup to twin GM modules as the leading coil burns out the modules if only one is used .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Yug...ailpage#t=448s

gerald m

Engine problem seemed to be totally fuel related changed out old fuel pump it tested 1.5 sometimes 2 lbs . new pump delivers 4.5 to 5 lbs ..

That seemed to solve the bog and dying out at high RPM also improved starting . engine fires right away , no backfire or pre ignition that I can tell . Went back to 2 trailing coils to run the leading plugs , they seem to do fine same as before ..

Other than maybe a little advance and timing play, maybe open up the 5th. and 6th. ports . that will be about all for now . A nice soft bicycle style seat would be a bonus .. mission complete ..