bumpstart

extra ( trailing ) pot on the dizzy can be used for higher boosts with less compromise to the base timing
as it has a little more reach in its advance and retard function than the leading pot

it involves hooking the igniters up to the other ( trailing ) pickup and retiming the base position of the dizzy to suit

from there the timing can be further fine tuned by push/pull on the trailing vac pot adjustment

gerald m

Ok I see where you are coming from with the dizzy .. Decided to order both the egt module and the vacuum boost module . the lap top extension we will get but later . If we get to the track me thinks it will be time for a msd ignition controller .

It's hard waiting for any info from the NHRA and also I don't want to **** them off by sending to much mail either . Sure would like to go get a nice slick .

I have been invited over to the Estevan 1/8 mile track in the spring to give a couple goes by some of the guys there but nothing official . so no lagging this winter he needs to be ready for spring . front brakes , better chain guard , tail light , The modules , and me thinks a easily removable wheelie bar , possibly change the exhaust from the waste gate out , see what they say .

In all honesty the bike hasent been opened up long enough to tune much of anything , the short little runs with no times don't count for much .

bumpstart

yes. it is out of the box and went suprisingly well

depending on the model mixer you bought , you get different gas valve setups

one is setup to be deliberately rich
( so the FB controller can use a solenoid to control converter signal pressure and trim the fuel mix to lambda ) av1- 1245

one is setup closer to correct mixtures at all the airflows , av1-12

the numbers are cast on the back of the little plug that is the gas valve attached to the diaphragm


depending which one you get, there is varying strategies on which way to push mixtures in the direction you want


if it is too rich everywhere .. then usually you can shim between the gas valve and the air valve plate
the little shims are part r1-30

normally 1 - 3 shims can be added to trim mixes down across the entire range

bigger changes can be down by using the choice of red or blue springs in the convertor to adjust convertor pressure


on the other hand.. if the mixtures are fat mainly down low.. you would use the air bleed on the side of the mixer
( provided it has enough adjust )

or you can add a supplementary air bleed around the mixer


a jiggle on all these factors allows you to push the fuel curve in the directions you desire, aiming for a 0.85 lambda under initial accel..
and trying to avoid dipping too rich to 0.75 where it will encourage ignition misses and displace too much air and rob a little power

gerald m

Fired the bike up for a chum of mine yesterday he's a big block chevy man , he said he has never heard an engine that sounds like it but when I told him to put his finger tips on top of the mixer he could not believe how smooth it runs and has never seen an engine of any kind with 27 inch HG vacuum at idle . I thinking we must have just a nice film of oil going on inside to promote that kind of vacuum .

gerald m

Ordered the EGT module and the vacuum boost module a couple days ago .. My only concern is the modules look to be very prone to moisture so me thinks I need to build a box to put the boxes into . building a new seat so maybe I will incorporate a nice cubby hole in the rear of the seat to hide all the components from weather and eyes . Need a few secrets right ?

Me thinks that if I were working on a car with these modules I would be mounting under the dash somewhere convenient or at the very least in a moisture proof container .

bumpstart

have mine in passenger foot-well next to my ecu
.. the cases slot and link together and are fairly compact units
just be careful with routing the stainless K couple wire as it wont like sharp bends

gerald m

No problem with me for space I will find room when I build my new low profile seat . Wiring is always a real pita for me , not doing the wiring that is not real difficult but to make it look neat forget it (( I think me needs to take a course in how to make your wiring not look like a spider web LOL )) One question about the AFR the directions state that the probe should be angled down stream 25 deg I think it was ,.. like you stated the welded on nut will protect the probe end some but do you think it should be angled a tad more because of the close confines of the exhaust system same with the EGT .

The piping between the turbo and mixer (( blue hose etc. )) needs to go so I can have a metal one made that I can mount my bov on . seeing as it is pre mixer I should be able to vent the BOV to open air right (( no explosive gasses there )) .?? Man when I back off on the throttle even just a bit the air coming back out the intake sounds like a freaking hurricane , it actually bulges my air cleaner nylons out like an inch or more ,

bumpstart

for wideband you order the bung and it goes post turbo , leaning at that angle with flow and clocked into that window in the instructions so it can not fill with moisture when shut down and thus protects against thermal shock



the EGT you need to find a nut to raise it out of the stream a bit and it goes pre turbo
( as probe will stick right in and interfere with flow and potentially over expose tip to erosion )
the angles are less important as the probe is not hollow
mine go into the bottom of each runner as they come out of the engine maybe 5 inches or so
( i have one each runner )
a single will work fine but it should go where it will see flow from both exhaust ports


BOV will still get some reversion and will have LPG gas in it , route back to aircleaner

consider maybe building space under the seat to mount a more permanent airfilter and some volume in the inlet pipe

gerald m

Finally got all three devices , AFR , EGT , VACUUM BOOST , modules .. they can go on the shelf until I have done what needs to be done for the 1/4 and 1/8 mile tracks ..

A short note on ordering PLX modules , Not saying a person should by one place and not another but I had a awful time with the California based online store . ordered the egt and vacuum boost modules from them making sure that it would be sent in the ordinary mail which I paid 14.00 and change for , reasonable cost I thought . afew days later I get a mail that the modules are in Saskatoon at purolator which I believe is owned by UPS or the other way around . both modules were shipped separate and the UPS charges were 62.00 cdn each for shipping . the modules are close to 100.00 US each . and they wanted me to pick up in Saskatoon .

So I told them to return to sender for refund and ordered from RIGA LATVIA united kingdom . The modules were around 8.00 more than California but the shipping was free airmail . it took 7 or 8 days to reach my mail box and only required a signature .

I dont intend to make people or any company look bad just tired of getting screwed over . It seems if companies dont have their own broker then expect shipping and delivery charges , ship by reg mail no delivery charge and if there is it is generally reasonable .. Gerald m

gerald m

I guess most people have rusty turbo problems on the hot side , somewhere I read that if shot peened ( sand blaster ) with a soft non ferrous material the rusting will be easy to control but of course no one seems to know much about it .
I'm sure everything under the sun has been tried , I tried the so called VHT header coatings and they will probably work for most things but not for the bike , it just kinda turns to chalk and comes off . I guess I have better things to do than worry about it but just covering all the ugly up with a diaper , Was thinking about some type of ceramic glaze but I'm sure that has been tried to. There must be a cost effective way to deal with ugly turbo rust , but then the wife smeared all kinds of stuff on and she just got uglier everyday .

Well boss got a few things done , surprisingly I found a left hand hyd brake master cyl for the handlebars . it is intended for a hyd clutch but has the same bore , stroke and leverage points on the handle as the right hand one it's just a mirror part . so I bought the pair . managed to dig around and find all the brake parts for the Sabre front end just needs new hoses but everything else is mint , so now the anti plunge front end will activate and work when the front brakes are applied , a very simple but effective set up . so the left for the rear brake and right for front .

I guess for 100 bucks I get the device that will send all PLX readouts to my laptop . just a toy but a nice toy .

Going to start building my new seat ,flared trunk combo with tail , brake light . I need to go look at some bikes that have the wide rear tire so I can decide what I want or better yet what will fit without any huge changes , Had Been thinking about a flat slick but after doing tons of reading decided to just go with a wide high traction tire , the flat face tire I guess handle much different than a more rounded face . I did find a piece of pavement in the fall and did a few burnouts very hard to control with the 120 knobby on the rear but it sure made a ton of smoke but even with the knobby it had lots of traction if I let it go without burning it so a nice wide sticky high traction tire should take it to the point where in a 1/8 mile run it will reach a high enough speed that if I dont watch it they will send me home to do more safety standards . Wheelie bars I'm not crazy about but I think I will build some mounts onto the frame ( just in case ) then could build the bars later ..

What ever electrical I need at the front will still be in place but all components will go in the trunk , havent decided weather there will be separate components on their own harness so they can be removed individually it's a nice idea to be able to hook them together but I tried it and they are a real bitch to get back apart , bought a bunch of 4 wire relays with a little lighter wiring for the stuff and a breaker board with separate resets ..

So how about it boss what's the story on the turbo what actually works to keep the rust off ?? The temp Must be getting just a tad warm where you are boss try to keep cool man . take care . Gauntlet .

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Those new stainless steel exhaust housings stay pretty nice looking!

bumpstart

i guess you get that on a repro turbo
.. they may skimp a little on the nickle content and so a more prone to rust and cracks

my thoughts ( while i hate them for various reasons on the street car )
is that the bike has great service access , and all those coatings dont really hold up to the temps an LPG turbo rotor is producing ( just over 1000 C or almost 2000 F at WOT )
and so the nappy would be the easiest and most effective way to go
albeit maybe look for a strong kevlar one that doubles as a containment device ?

gerald m

Yea I like the look of stainless after it's had a tad of heat pushed through it . It's heavy as heck 3/16" wall ,seamless, Just under 3 inch inside. It's really surprising how much the turbo and heavy pipe cut down the exhaust noise , ear plugs are no longer necessary , welll almost Thanks for taking the time always feel free ..

Yea I know why it does it , I just thought maybe there was a bit of a solution bouncing around . As far as covering it up I have one thought , Now I have always had the idea that I didn't want to hold the heat inside the turbo with a big old bag but maybe its better for the hot side to cool down slow with the rag around it rather than let the ambient air get at it ?? I guess when I think about it , it's hotter than the hubs of hell inside and ambient air outside that chunk of iron actually stands up quite well inexpensive or not . I've never had a turbo before so I have nothing to compare it to but no complaints here .
I would be more interested in containment also .Heavy duty for that . never thought about it much but I guess there arent many guys laying on top of their turbos when they spool up .. quite a sound cant really explain it , it's one of those things that one needs to experience , Many different sounds , engine ,exhaust, turbo , everyone distinctive , just like a old quadraphonic stereo .

Want to build a engine cover also and thought maybe a layer or two of something to slow down parts from turbo or mixer top if things let go and just to cover up a few little things , (( gotta have a few secrets )) . think I will just pin and stretch some kind of material over the pins then spray or brush with some kind of resin mixture . once I get a shape then I can work with it . same with the trunk .

bumpstart

carbon fibre is the new sexy

gerald m

WHOA BACK boss , I have rolled the idea around but have never done anything with carbon fiber . Probably not much different than fiberglass but me thinks these parts are to large to be practicing with something new so it will probably be fiberglass as it's cheap and I am familiar with it to a point . I could always send you a blueprint so you could just whip one up after supper.

gerald m

well been picking away at all the small things that need doing , moved my module heat sinks up top between the fork tubes just above where the front brake hoses connect , changed the front wheel back to original stock large twin disc 4 piston calipers . still waiting for new hoses for front .,,

I did find a left and right hand pair of new master cylinders for the handle bars
so that worked out great , that way I run front brakes with left control and right hand control for rear brake

New front and rear tires for the tarmac Rear -- 180x55zr18 extra soft the 003 stealth by Shienko and a 120-90-18 on front .

Although never had issues with the cheaper chains besides stretching and causing the teeth to curl on the rear sprocket so I found a 530 Heavy link drag chain . will see what happens with that .

Need to build a bracket to help support turbo ,,, found the header touching one port actuator and 1/4 inch gap on the other so it didn't move much up top to make 1/8 at the bottom but still to much .

Looks good to go south couple hundred KM. in the spring to run on the Swift Current track , they don't seem to concerned so much about rules that don't exist down there .

Don't think me good enough to build trunk ( I know it will look like crap ) so am going to buy one and modify it to fit .

Think I will take the dragon to SORRENSON in the spring and put it on his Dyno just to get it tuned a bit . he said the bike dyno only reads out to 280 or so he says it doesn't hurt it that it just leaves gaps on the graph so we see what happens .when time comes .

gerald m

removed and bench tested wastegate today, was set very conservative at 3-3.5 pounds same setting as the adjustable pressure switch for the water injection to start ..changed springs and set it up for the piston to start to move at 12.5 lbs. and left the water switch at 3.5 that should make the water flow .. the one way valve work good to keep air pressure in the water injection tank between runs so it doesn't need to build up each time .

Installed the big spring for the clutch maybe it will ramp up a bit slower and help keep it from breaking loose ..

Still need a nice small BOV that I can route back to inlet on turbo . if anyone has one for reasonable PM me please ..

bumpstart

that is a big jump in boost pressure when maybe i would push for more incremental jumps

it may be better to keep the lesser spring and setup a tee and bleed to the other side of the wastegate diaphragm and thus get boost somewhere closer to 10 psi for now and not the 15 or so that 12.5 spring will over shoot to

as you move to the higher boosts you may find you have to back down the ignition timing a little
remember the 12at retard pot only has scope built in for around 10 psi , and more boost than that means you have to subract some timing from either the base timing or limit the mech timing inside

gerald m

somehow I knew you were going to say that , set to start to open at 7 pounds fully open at 9 .. the gate has been working as I can see the piston has a clean spot . turbine is tight with no end play and if any side play it is to small to feel any movement so i guess that is a good sign .

decided to get a set of small hard bags to mount on either side at rear so use the left for electronics and right maybe for water injection canister don't know yet .. I want to put the peel switch as well as the rest . the only stuff in front will be the basic ignition components . the modules with their heat sinks should cool better up between the fork tubes.

biggest storm of the winter yesterday of course it had to be the day for our annual family fishing derby . so looks like I have a ft. of snow to blow . your part of the country must be what around +40 ??

bumpstart

only 36 today, 38 tomorrow , around 100F , been a few hot ones already ( 44.4 )
and plenty of firebugs and fires

but usually last week of feb, first week of march we traditionally get a week or two of at 40+

aim for 10 psi boost . with mech timing maxed around 24/25 BTDC at revs higher than 3500

anymore boost than that and you will have to pull back from 25 BTDC about 1 degree for each psi boost
( i found with blended LPG its closer to 0.8 degrees for every psi )

gerald m

I haven't done anything with the dizzy you gave me but I think I will pin it so it can work about 60% . I guess if we want more boost it will need a better ignition controller but not now I still need to get my cubby's built to hold all the stuff . most people probably don't realize how much electrical that has been gathered together to make it pop. not so sure I remember myself .

That waste gate actually seems to work quite nice . Played with all the different springs and once it get up to 10 and up it responds very nice and smooth with less variation between starting and full open probably normal for most .. Same with the turbo although me thinks I was only running a couple pounds boost before waste gate popped open it works fine handles the 90 pounds oil pressure without seal problems has had lots of spin ups without any sign of problem ,, No complaints here .. the way it starts is great I hate it when they need to spin over to catch up to themselves before starting .. this puppy actually startles you if your not ready for it .. I love it .. it just starts doesn't matter if it is warm or cold .

The little wagon is often on my mind lately by the end of next summer my shop will be spray foamed with heat so I can work on it next winter and I'm not as old as I thought I was so I have more time now. . haven't decided weather to just make it nice and snappy or yea you know . The dude down the street wants the back half of his body shop spray foamed so that would be a super way to get the body done for part of the bill then just have the power train and running gear to contend with . If we spent a tad extra on the engine keeping it dependable a little dude like that would go like stink . I know you have thoughts about this little car .

gerald m

Spent 4 years making the bike go so figured better spend some serious time on making it stop . bought new front discs , caliper kits for 4 piston system , new front & rear master cyclinders ( left hand control for front brakes and right hand control for rear ) decided to use the left one for front brakes making it easier to do a burnout instead of using right hand for throttle and brake , Recut rear disc it now has a run out of 2 thou , new pads , new rear lines . the overrunning clutch in the primary drive gives almost all the braking necessary so with all it should have good stopping power . Mounted the two ignition module heat sinks up front just above the brake line junction block . IN pic .

so all three plx devices will go in the left hand hard bag along with all relays , fuse boxes , junction blocks , the pl-30 peel switch ,, . Will leave some electronics at the front to run dash board ignition switch , head light then was thinking to run a wire from ignition switch to a relay in the trunk then from the relay I can feed my fuse block , then feed all plx devices with a separate relay for each . also for the booster solenoid on the reg. I still want that to work with the throttle position . maybe after doing a few workouts the afr will show it needs the extra at a different time .
The right hard bag maybe I will use for the rad reservoir tank instead of under the seat . found a place to buy kevlar by the meter so am going to play with that a bit make some kind of a turbo blanket and then a hard engine blanket (( cover )) with a couple layers in fiber resin . see how that goes .

bumpstart

nice work

the turbine colour is so nice on LPG rotaries !

PS.
the PLX cases can slide and link together

edit.. i see you worked it out

bumpstart

oh, and you will only need to run an individual 5 amp fuse for each PLX case , probs no need for the relays

gerald m

Just want one from the ign. sw. to the rear I would like to run it with a relay and then have the relay switch power on to rear fuse box and then from fuse to PLX . Got a box with 6 fuse spots just for the rear . they really dont say how many amps to power the plx so that is good to know . yea the hard bag is tapered in the front so the stair case effect with the boxes ,, gain a little room and the faces are easier to see for set up rather than all stacked straight ..

The propane ,,yea very nice to work with once set up is done . the only bitch I have on propane is the fuel vessels and for anything but a bike that would be no big deal either . My forklift is the best example of propane . originally on gas then was switched to propane when I got it the propane equipment was very neglected so switched back to gasoline ,, it was the same as my bike ,it ran like crap, flooded often , the exhaust was overwhelming just to be around it . Randy from ALTERNATIVE FUELS got his man in calgary Trevor I think is his name to source me a kit for the old algas set up that was on it when I bought the lift. When all was said and done it cost me 57.00 cdn. to rebuild the algas components ( needs 2 kits to do a complete ) I dont use it in the winter but in the mornings it turns a few times before it starts but through the day it fires as soon as the key is turned .. oil consumption also , the old flat head 6 just poured the oil through it .,, fouled plugs all that kind of nasty stuff . now although I do run the oil close to the add mark it hardly smokes at all , no more fouled plugs from oil . and not bad on fuel either , when I put my shop up it ran about 1.5 days off and on with the ordinary barbecue tank upside down . so 15 bucks a day for a back saver is pretty dam cheap and seemingly dependable . bought an adapter from good old china to fill the 1 pound torch cylinders the cost went from most times around 5.00 each to 1.00 each to fill . 4.00 a bottle might not seem like anything after all the coin spent through ones life but thats 4 .00 I can spend on more funner things .. like tires ,, nothing more funner than burning up a 200.00 tire I couldn't agree more bumpstart propane in the right places is a very nice fuel .

The oil in the bike is like new no gas smell , no dilution of oil , very clean spark plugs . I have 3 magnets inside the oil pan to catch metal filings , maybe when I drain the oil to change I will have a look with a flexible video cam and see what has collected (( My chum has a nice one I just wont tell him what Im using it for until I'm finished . ,, i am betting very little . No complaints here boss ..