ultimatejay

iTrader: (1)

Who's motor is this? Very nice indeed.

mazda1200

iTrader: (1)

nice engine set up...

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

I don't know who's it is, but smeone posted that ugly K20 so I had to post a pretty 13B...

felix_is_alive

i know i am going to get flamed BIG time for this , but what the hell
i love rotaries , but sorry , withouth a turbo the rotary is a sitting duck it will rev high , it will make youre eardrums pop , but it wont run
Sorry MY opinion is that 13B`s NA just dont have the power , in earlier days it was fine
But nowadays with modern technology to ME the NA rotary just doesnt have the power to compete (maybe thats the main reason the renesis is crap)
and yes k series hondas are badass , i am in no way a honda guy , but i know those things kick ***
i mean come on , the S2000 (not k series i know ) is worlds most powerfull 4 cyilinder (NA of course ), so them honda guys must know what their doing
I am a rotary guy 110% but sorry NA to NA the honda is going to kick youre ***
Add turbo or some nos .....then things start getting interesting

t-von

iTrader: (8)

^ I disagree. Anyone know what's the maximum output of a k-series engine is to the wheels fully built? Personally I think the main advantage is the much lighter weight chassis those engines are placed in. I don't care what engine you put in a car. If your putting down 200+ whp in a chassis that's sub 2000lbs, your gonna kick a ton of *** 24/7 while being reliable. It's all about the power to weight ratio and exactly the reason I want to built a NA 300whp 1st gen Miata as a daily driver.

rotaryengineering

I believe this motor belongs to Robert at RotaryShack or one of his customers.
It appears to be a 58mm Gene Berg, but I like the Geers Engineering Terminators much better. 62MM is huge and the Rotary Engine loves all the air you can cram down the intake runners. As long as you can match the fuel to the demand these carbs will blow your mind compared to a standard 48-51.5 IDA style downdraft.

Albert

junito1

I think the horsepower will be close enough..

If suspension and rear end are done correctly the starlet, it will fly out of the whole compared to the civic. Resulting in a rotary win!!

WOOO!

Oh. and the starlet will be cheaper.=D

ultimatejay

iTrader: (1)

You're a dumbass. How do you figure a 9.8 second 1/4 mile is a sitting duck? Padilla did that with a first gen with full glass and interior. The Honda guys are no sitting ducks either but they get to come in several hundered pounds lighter against the rotary in drag events. Why? Because they can't compete with the rotary if all things are equal, that's why. Like I said before, if the cars weigh the same and the horesepower is the same who will win? The rotary with the rearwheel drive, everytime. And hello, we are using motors/blocks/rotors back from the 60's. The 13b and 12a hasn't changed since then. These Honda's have new heads, pistons, blocks, valvetrain, etc and we are still kicking there *** with old school rotors and blocks. Let see those POS front wheel drive shitboxes try to compete with us with Honda motors from the same period.

ROTARY FOR THE WIN! CASE CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!!! NEXT THREAD PLEASE.

junito1

close to 6000 dollars for just a swap on the honda though...

YOu know what i can do to a rotary.. with 6 g's... hmmmmm

MAzda comp p-port housings... 1,800.

Rx8 asemmbly... I dunno know-- lets say 2000$ for the hell of it.(2,000 more to go=D)

The rest of the 2000 will be on rebuilt kit and some sort of werber/carb.

DONE DEAL!

ozvazquez

there is a lot support for the 13b, but at the same time there is a lot of dout in it. before there b or k swap,as a matter of a fact before honda hit the racing scene. it was 12a and 13b ruling it all. and for those of you that dont think i can build it, i will let you see the finished product and then we can talk. this post was for inquiring mind. lets keep the opinion going. all of you have great input. thanks the support and input.

Sammy Built

iTrader: (18)

Wow interesting topic! First off I liked to say there's no need for a N/a 20b be compared to one of those honda k20 engine thingy's cause there's no comparison! Now back to the topic 13b vs k series, half you guys are ragging on the rotary engine not beating the k20. But keep in mind that the guy is using a starlet ,not a heavy Rx7 like alout of your stories ! A starlet with a 8.8 rear end, that pretty much you can select any gearing that he wants !Plus a turbo 2 transmission thas will keep for reliable purpose's (drivetrain strength).The guys going out with a pretty much 10 sec setup that in the books is more favor then a 11 sec hatch !
You guys really dont understand cause most of you guys are rx7 owners not lightweight, halfback all out starlets owners ! Just click on the link i provided it's a 12 sec rx7 that is bridge port all motor vs a Z06 Keep in mind this debate is a keries against lightweight monster starlet, 13b, 8.8 rear end, microtech!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl3hqF4oIZI

Kilito Racing

haha this is interesting. I'm Jesus Jr. (Kilo's son) and i remember my dad having a bridge ported '85 street legal car(A/C and all) running 8.1 in the 1/8th. That's without the microtech, just a holley.

torch'd

you can do it... i dont have much input as i am just runnign a small port 12a in a corolla but i can tell you it feels faster than my 5.0.

ozvazquez

WOW!! Were have you been hiding. I Thought no one was going to support the starlet. You guy need to check out GRS Motorsports web site and see the rotary starlets that raced in the pinks event in Puerto Rico so you can see what they are about ... Thanks for the support !!!

torch'd

i still say the starlet takes him... overall hp on a dyno (depending on type of dyno and who's running it) i think may go to the k20.... a local by me has a sick hatch. k24 with k20 true vtec (both cams i think its the rsx head) with forged 12:1 compresion and the head has cams and its fully race ported. the car is fast (for an na honda) but even on a 23" slick doesnt get traction. his best to date is a low 12 at about 130. i'd have to go relook it up. all i can say is it makes a lot of noise but even on the street my mild (cam and intake) 302 fox body will launch him and keep pullin on him hard up to 60 mph (i dont like to go too fast on the street).

i will say however im waiting for this summer. im swapping over to my race car being a 12a pp ae86. hoping to push 200+ hp at my wheels (local mustang dyno).

as for the 350 fwhp b16 build. i'd love to see that dyno sheet. local dyno day the highest i've seen out of a b16 was a meth injected 93 octane pretty wild build that sounded like a jet (turbo gt32r) and it only put down 327 (lol only 327 in a civic). and that car has a lot done.

go for him man... you can def get the budget win... and i think the 1/4 is yours. hp i wouldnt worry about it. but thats just me.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

You need to see the big picture. The 13B is no match for the K20, the K20 is a far more MODERN advanced engine. The 13B is 20 years old...a Renesis would be a better match. I also think porting the engine to the limit of a 10,000 mile (?) lifespan is cheating.

torch'd

i think what everyone is overlooking is what resources does everyone in the comp have. a stock headed (e7) 302 can run low 10's in a mustang with enough race developement. but i gauruntee yall i cant do that wiht my e7 heads and stock style intake. especially not all motor.

and as for old tech argument. thats a load. my 351 im currently swapping into my mustang was originally designed in what late 50's (same architecture as the original 289). but yet at the track my lil 302 wooped all day long on ls1 camaro's... newer isnt always better. and i was down almost 50 cubes in all those races. now with the 351 swap (a lot done) none of my friends in ls1's will hold a candle to my mustang. however if you try to compare my 351 to a fully built ls7 in a drag car with full drag suspension and a glide he will beat me... probably pretty bad. but my friends and i dont have access to the money or the tech,

dont forget they are on a budget. run a pp with a tII housing and rx8 rotors for high comp and see where it gets you. id guess 275-300 on a mustang dyno... and no way a civic will keep with you in the 1/4. not full weight. remember k20 full race all motor pro cars are running 9.90's still all motor. and i doubt his competition has that kind of money.

do it man forget all the haters. just hope there isnt a gas milage challenge lol.

Black91n/a

A Renesis is more or less the same as an old 13B with lots of the parts being swappable between the two, and it has one big flaw. It pretty much can't be ported. An older 13B can be ported a bunch more, allowing it more ultimate power potential. A BP 13B will make more power, and an SP 13B can make more.

torch'd

2 years and $10,000 dollars later, is the finished product. This motor really has some pretty tricky stuff done to it. Dynoed at 304 HP, 195 torque at 9 psi (b16 i rest my case)

now onto a race n/a k20

Alright y'all- here is the plan for the motor- questions to follow:
K24A4 block, sleeved (stock 87mm bore)
Custom Supertech pistons, 11.5:1 C/R (getting a ceramic coating of some sort)- my race team partner has a deal where I'm getting these almost for free
Import Builders rods (also coated)
ACL main and rod bearings (maybe- need opinions on these)
ARP head studs (of course- never doing it any other way)
Ported and polished head
Skunk2 valve springs and retainers
BC Stage 2 cams (probably)
Crower Flat (+ 0.2 c/r) SS valves
Skunk2 exhaust cam gear
DC Sports race header
Fujita F5 CAI
RBC IM w/adapter
K-Pro (of course!)

By the way, the goal for this car is a track-ready EP with around 250 WHP on 93 octane pump gas

thats a nice build. and a lot of goodies. what kind of budget are you realistically lookign at spending. i bet there's 5k easy intot he motor alone.

junito1

OK for the dyno masters... This is a fully built. k26 and whatnot. NOw.. This is a DYNO PACK. or whatever its called. That mean that the HP rating in this thing is not to the wheels... Its BHP. Brakehorsepower. <-- Thats means it reads wayyy higher than a dynojet.

I would say this car makes about 240-250 WHP on a mustang dyno.

STARLET FTW!!!!!!!
All you guys saying k20 is better engine.. I REALLY DOUBT IT>>.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kxIpxyUAVY

Black91n/a

Ok, so I know almost nothing about K20's, but wouldn't a sleeved block and aftermarket rods be totally overkill for an NA engine build?

ultimatejay

iTrader: (1)

Read my sig. I ran a 8.0 in the 8th mile which is a 12.3/4 in the 1/4 mile and I am running a 12a with a small bridgeport in my 73 rx2. A starlet is way lighter and a 13bpport or even a 13bbp will make the starlet run 10-11's all day long with no problems with a Weber carb!!!! Like mentioned above go over to GRS motorsports and look at the vids of the starlets running over there. I guarantee you can build a rotary engine for around half the money compared to a Honda motor. Most rotaries are running stock rotors and eshaft, etc. I would love to see how much hp a Honda can make without changing crank,pistons, heads, valves, springs, basically the complete engine aside from the block. What are we changing on our rotary engines? Porting and seals? Hahahaha. And alot are even running stock seals. Hahahaha. Wait until we get the billet rotors/housings dialed in. Those poor bastards will whine some more for more weight restrictions. F-ng Honda crybabies.

torch'd

black91n/a- Ok, so I know almost nothing about K20's, but wouldn't a sleeved block and aftermarket rods be totally overkill for an NA engine build?

a built all out race motor is a built all out race motor no matter how you look at it. on any engine good forged rods and sleeving have less flex and the rods usually have tighter clearances and better balance. when talkign abotu sqeezing out every little last bit of hp its what you have to have. also how many n/a guys actually stay hard core n/a before spraying or boosting something of some sort.


to the other two between my 2 posts THANK YOU

61620B

Hello...There is ways to make power on NA 13B...K20's have a lot more off the shelf race parts than a rotary,K20 are well engineered from factory...Most of the engines i run are 100% genuine mazda parts ... no off the shelf products and making well over 400hp WHP.The rotary is just a well engineered dinosaur,If we had off the shelf products...the rotary will be a pist-on killer by far.
Thats what makes the rotary so obsessive to many enthusiast ....,just some add on's like fuel ,spark and porting can make a well tuned motor make some crazy HP increase from just a little engine.

Ive seen and done 13B engines make 250hp with just a porting job , not to mention(engine was bought from junk yards,luckly engine was good )Just cleaned and clearance with factory seals also daily driven....

Black91n/a

I can understand the rods for lightness and extra strength if you plan on reving it a bunch higher than stock redline, but I still have my doubts that sleeving would really provide any real benefits. It WILL compromise cooling, since there's a resistance to conducting heat whenever you have a joint between to pieces, even if it's a good joint, it will slow the rate of heat flowing from the cylinders to the coolant. I'm just saying, you might want to research that a little more before spending all that money (the parts will be the cheap part for sleeving).