Haltech starting issues
03-28-10, 05:29 PM
#1
Turbo Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: richmond virginia
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
starting issues
I posted this question in the wrong section, so I'm moving it here. Thanks!
Hey guys. I bought an rx with a custom turbo installed, along with a Haltech E6K engine management unit.
I've finally had the time to take a look at the thing. It's been parked for 2 months.
The car was in a heated garage when I picked it up. It started up flawlessly. Now it won't start at all. I can hear the starter cranking, and occasionally I'll get a little burst from the engine, but never enough to get going.
The original owner said that I needed to add fuel to the coolant map on the Haltech unit. I've messed around with this some, but it didn't seem to make a difference.
It drove like a dream all the home, drove halfway across the country to get it, and I would really like to get it going again. I'm relatively inexperienced with cars, so this will be a learning experience for me. Please be patient with me. I am trying very hard.
I've finally had the time to take a look at the thing. It's been parked for 2 months.
The car was in a heated garage when I picked it up. It started up flawlessly. Now it won't start at all. I can hear the starter cranking, and occasionally I'll get a little burst from the engine, but never enough to get going.
The original owner said that I needed to add fuel to the coolant map on the Haltech unit. I've messed around with this some, but it didn't seem to make a difference.
It drove like a dream all the home, drove halfway across the country to get it, and I would really like to get it going again. I'm relatively inexperienced with cars, so this will be a learning experience for me. Please be patient with me. I am trying very hard.
Haltech section would be better for this, but I'll try and help.
The engine should fire up right away. Be careful with the coolant map. That's for when the car is running. They might have meant primer map. When the engine is cold, it needs LOTS of fuel. On the E6k, try richening (add more) to the primer bars before the last 10. On mine my bars start on the left (bar 1) around 150, and linearize down to 10 around bar 24. All engines are different, but adding more fuel should help it fire immediately.
The engine should fire up right away. Be careful with the coolant map. That's for when the car is running. They might have meant primer map. When the engine is cold, it needs LOTS of fuel. On the E6k, try richening (add more) to the primer bars before the last 10. On mine my bars start on the left (bar 1) around 150, and linearize down to 10 around bar 24. All engines are different, but adding more fuel should help it fire immediately.
Or its flooded
Thanks for the help! I'll try that asap. I'll also move this over the the haltech section. Sorry I missed that.
03-31-10, 02:12 PM
#3
Turbo Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: richmond virginia
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hopefully I'll get to try this afternoon, depending on work. I work 80 hours a week, typically during the day. I might not be able to try until Saturday.
03-31-10, 07:29 PM
#4
Turbo Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: richmond virginia
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So today I followed the simplest suggestion. I pulled out the spark plugs. They were totally covered in grime. I cleaned them up, replaced them, and the car almost started. Does this imply that it might be flooded?
Next I plan to enrich the primer map, but if the engine is currently flooded, that would be a mistake, right?
Also, my current primer map is very different from the one described in the suggestion above.
I've got 32 bars. They range from -40% to 261% and progress from a height of 230 to 4, almost linearly.
My last ten bars are
So, do I try clearing out flooding first, or do I alter the primer map first? The primer map would be easier, I think, but I wouldn't want to do something useless no matter how easy it is.
Would it be okay to clear out the flooding by lowering the fuel across the whole primer map temporarily? That way I don't have to pull anything out of anywhere?
Next I plan to enrich the primer map, but if the engine is currently flooded, that would be a mistake, right?
Also, my current primer map is very different from the one described in the suggestion above.
I've got 32 bars. They range from -40% to 261% and progress from a height of 230 to 4, almost linearly.
My last ten bars are
Code:
bar temp fuel 23 173.6 61.44 24 183.3 53.25 25 193.0 45.06 26 202.7 36.86 27 212.4 30.72 28 222.1 22.53 29 231.8 20.48 30 241.5 8.19 31 251.2 6.14 32 261.0 4.1
Would it be okay to clear out the flooding by lowering the fuel across the whole primer map temporarily? That way I don't have to pull anything out of anywhere?
Last edited by gesangbaer; 03-31-10 at 07:35 PM. Reason: readability - and a new idea
03-31-10, 07:49 PM
#5
I would pull the egi fuse and spark plugs, hold the throttle pedal down and crank the engine for about 10sec. Wait a few minutes then crank again with the throttle open for 10sec. Clean the spark plugs and reinstall them. Replace the egi fuse and try to start the engine. If it still won't start pull the spark plugs. If it's flooding the plugs will be wet with fuel...and white vapor fuel clouds will be pouring out of the tailpipes.
Connect to the E6K with the laptop and open the primer page. Hit the home key. Select a few bars to the left and right and lower them all about 5 down arrows. With clean plugs try start the engine.
If it floods, lower the bars more and clean the plugs and try again...
It might help if you know what size primary injectors were used. You could open a stock map and compare that primer map to the one you are using. Maybe the guy has 720cc injectors in the primaries and you're working with a base map for 550cc primaries.
Connect to the E6K with the laptop and open the primer page. Hit the home key. Select a few bars to the left and right and lower them all about 5 down arrows. With clean plugs try start the engine.
If it floods, lower the bars more and clean the plugs and try again...
It might help if you know what size primary injectors were used. You could open a stock map and compare that primer map to the one you are using. Maybe the guy has 720cc injectors in the primaries and you're working with a base map for 550cc primaries.
Trending Topics
04-01-10, 01:12 AM
#8
BDC Motorsports
I would pull the egi fuse and spark plugs, hold the throttle pedal down and crank the engine for about 10sec. Wait a few minutes then crank again with the throttle open for 10sec. Clean the spark plugs and reinstall them. Replace the egi fuse and try to start the engine. If it still won't start pull the spark plugs. If it's flooding the plugs will be wet with fuel...and white vapor fuel clouds will be pouring out of the tailpipes.
To the OP, email me the map that's on it plus the vehicle's specs and I'll take a look.
bdc@bdcmotorsports.com
B
04-01-10, 10:57 AM
#9
Turbo Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: richmond virginia
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay, dug up some of the specs from the original purchase.
89 Mazda RX-7 with 50,400 original miles on it. There is a small exhaust leak on the adapter pipe between the V-band on the turbo and the Racing Beat system. The pipe just needs to be pulled off and the pinhole on the weld fixed. This does not effect the driveability of the car or how it runs. Aftermarket oil temp gauge, and the AFR meter. The modifications to the motor are as follows:
-Large Streetported block (all intake and exhaust ports have been ported and polished)
-Secondary plates removed from throttle body
-All emissions, AC, and power steering has been removed.
-Polished upper intake manifold
-HKS log turbo manifold with high nickel re-enforced welds
-Mitsu TF07 turbo (60:1)
-3" V-band
-full 3" Racing Beat REV TII exhaust system.
-HKS wastegate with 5lb spring
-Hallman manual boost controller set to 12psi
-Haltech E6k Standalone fuel management system (serial port plug and play tuning for fuel and timing maps)
-1000cc secondary fuel injectors
-oem 550cc primary fuel injectors
-Walbro 255lph fuel pump
-Racing beat SS braided oil cooler lines with AN fittings
-Full custom front mount intercooler kit using a modified Starion core. Made so a oem bumper can till be used with fog lights and all. This design has few bends for much better air flow
-Greddy Type Rs blowoff valve
-MazdaSpeed 4 row Radiator
-Haltech ECU harness is a fully terminated harness built by haltech (no cobbled wiring here)
89 Mazda RX-7 with 50,400 original miles on it. There is a small exhaust leak on the adapter pipe between the V-band on the turbo and the Racing Beat system. The pipe just needs to be pulled off and the pinhole on the weld fixed. This does not effect the driveability of the car or how it runs. Aftermarket oil temp gauge, and the AFR meter. The modifications to the motor are as follows:
-Large Streetported block (all intake and exhaust ports have been ported and polished)
-Secondary plates removed from throttle body
-All emissions, AC, and power steering has been removed.
-Polished upper intake manifold
-HKS log turbo manifold with high nickel re-enforced welds
-Mitsu TF07 turbo (60:1)
-3" V-band
-full 3" Racing Beat REV TII exhaust system.
-HKS wastegate with 5lb spring
-Hallman manual boost controller set to 12psi
-Haltech E6k Standalone fuel management system (serial port plug and play tuning for fuel and timing maps)
-1000cc secondary fuel injectors
-oem 550cc primary fuel injectors
-Walbro 255lph fuel pump
-Racing beat SS braided oil cooler lines with AN fittings
-Full custom front mount intercooler kit using a modified Starion core. Made so a oem bumper can till be used with fog lights and all. This design has few bends for much better air flow
-Greddy Type Rs blowoff valve
-MazdaSpeed 4 row Radiator
-Haltech ECU harness is a fully terminated harness built by haltech (no cobbled wiring here)
04-01-10, 11:54 AM
#11
BDC Motorsports
B
04-01-10, 11:58 AM
#12
BDC Motorsports
Got your email, gesangbaer. Will check it out now.
Hmmm, looks like one of my older base maps. I'll make you up a better one yet retain the existing fuel curves in boost. Give me a bit and I'll upload it.
B
Hmmm, looks like one of my older base maps. I'll make you up a better one yet retain the existing fuel curves in boost. Give me a bit and I'll upload it.
B
04-01-10, 06:11 PM
#13
BDC Motorsports
Check your mail. Made you another base map but kept your trigger settings and your boost/fuel curves. Everything else is new and updated. Plug it in and go. Just don't boost it without tuning it as I suspect the fuel curves in boost are whacky.
B
B
04-02-10, 04:54 PM
#14
Turbo Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: richmond virginia
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey! The map you sent started the car right up! And then it died. The engine stalls out right after it starts up, though it does start up immediately. Also, if I touch the throttle at all it dies even faster. Does this mean the map is a little too rich in places?
I noticed you lowered the primer map over most of it's length, but enriched the last few bars up to around 10.
So, where do I go from here? Which map should I change and how?
I noticed you lowered the primer map over most of it's length, but enriched the last few bars up to around 10.
So, where do I go from here? Which map should I change and how?
04-03-10, 12:39 AM
#15
BDC Motorsports
Hey! The map you sent started the car right up! And then it died. The engine stalls out right after it starts up, though it does start up immediately. Also, if I touch the throttle at all it dies even faster. Does this mean the map is a little too rich in places?
I noticed you lowered the primer map over most of it's length, but enriched the last few bars up to around 10.
So, where do I go from here? Which map should I change and how?
I noticed you lowered the primer map over most of it's length, but enriched the last few bars up to around 10.
So, where do I go from here? Which map should I change and how?
B
04-04-10, 01:48 AM
#16
Turbo Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: richmond virginia
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey, I went into offline mode and didn't see a vacuum map. I tested out the commands in the interface that you posted and I see how those work. Which map is the vacuum map? Does it only show up in online mode?
04-04-10, 08:30 PM
#18
Turbo Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: richmond virginia
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay, so thats the first 11 bars on the fuel map that are a different color from the other bars, yeah?
I changed those as described, added 10%, and while it still dies, even with gas, it does seem to be running for just a little bit longer. So should I just keep enriching the fuel for the vacuum map by 5% increments? Whats a good stopping point if that isn't the problem? I wouldn't want to flood my engine by mistake.
I changed those as described, added 10%, and while it still dies, even with gas, it does seem to be running for just a little bit longer. So should I just keep enriching the fuel for the vacuum map by 5% increments? Whats a good stopping point if that isn't the problem? I wouldn't want to flood my engine by mistake.
04-04-10, 08:38 PM
#19
BDC Motorsports
Okay, so thats the first 11 bars on the fuel map that are a different color from the other bars, yeah?
I changed those as described, added 10%, and while it still dies, even with gas, it does seem to be running for just a little bit longer. So should I just keep enriching the fuel for the vacuum map by 5% increments? Whats a good stopping point if that isn't the problem? I wouldn't want to flood my engine by mistake.
I changed those as described, added 10%, and while it still dies, even with gas, it does seem to be running for just a little bit longer. So should I just keep enriching the fuel for the vacuum map by 5% increments? Whats a good stopping point if that isn't the problem? I wouldn't want to flood my engine by mistake.
B
04-05-10, 05:41 PM
#21
Turbo Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: richmond virginia
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Almost the same thing is happening with this map, though it had a slightly rougher time starting and idled for about 2 or 3 seconds longer. And it I touch the gas it dies.
So, in the interest of trying to understand whats going on here,
Does vacuum increase as I push on the throttle? Is the fuel rich enough for ignition but then to lean during idle? Should I linearize the vacuum map a bit? Or rather straighten out the curve? Is there a good guide to understanding how these maps interact with each other?
I think I can alter the map in anyway suggested now. Looking at the map you sent, the one where I add 10% to the vacuum map, and the one where you added 20$ to the vacuum map, I can see the differences.
The vacuum map is the non-boosting part, yes? And the boosting map is the part of the fuel map past the 11th bar?
So, in the interest of trying to understand whats going on here,
Does vacuum increase as I push on the throttle? Is the fuel rich enough for ignition but then to lean during idle? Should I linearize the vacuum map a bit? Or rather straighten out the curve? Is there a good guide to understanding how these maps interact with each other?
I think I can alter the map in anyway suggested now. Looking at the map you sent, the one where I add 10% to the vacuum map, and the one where you added 20$ to the vacuum map, I can see the differences.
The vacuum map is the non-boosting part, yes? And the boosting map is the part of the fuel map past the 11th bar?
04-05-10, 05:55 PM
#22
BDC Motorsports
Almost the same thing is happening with this map, though it had a slightly rougher time starting and idled for about 2 or 3 seconds longer. And it I touch the gas it dies.
So, in the interest of trying to understand whats going on here,
Does vacuum increase as I push on the throttle? Is the fuel rich enough for ignition but then to lean during idle? Should I linearize the vacuum map a bit? Or rather straighten out the curve? Is there a good guide to understanding how these maps interact with each other?
I think I can alter the map in anyway suggested now. Looking at the map you sent, the one where I add 10% to the vacuum map, and the one where you added 20$ to the vacuum map, I can see the differences.
The vacuum map is the non-boosting part, yes? And the boosting map is the part of the fuel map past the 11th bar?
So, in the interest of trying to understand whats going on here,
Does vacuum increase as I push on the throttle? Is the fuel rich enough for ignition but then to lean during idle? Should I linearize the vacuum map a bit? Or rather straighten out the curve? Is there a good guide to understanding how these maps interact with each other?
I think I can alter the map in anyway suggested now. Looking at the map you sent, the one where I add 10% to the vacuum map, and the one where you added 20$ to the vacuum map, I can see the differences.
The vacuum map is the non-boosting part, yes? And the boosting map is the part of the fuel map past the 11th bar?
Tell us your specs again -- Engine type, ignition hardware, trigger, injectors, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, etc.
B
04-05-10, 05:57 PM
#23
BDC Motorsports
Also, using the GM 3bar MAP sensor of course? Verify its wiring. Also make sure the hose going to the MAP sensor isn't pinched. One other thing - the MAP sensor and FPR should be tied together (and only those two together on a single source; no other anything else drawing vacuum) and should be plugged in to the bottom of the three nipples on the front of the upper intake manifold just behind the alternator.
B
B
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
