zenbeast

The black wire is a ground wire.. to the ignition.. Its a small one.. as it the red one.. small and also a ground.. I'll post a pic..

zenbeast

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zenbeas...in/photostream

satch

iTrader: (1)

The ignition switch is devoid of ground wires. When looking at the ignition wires the wires to focus on are the ones "plugged" into the pigtail. Thus the relevant wires are the "Front harness" wires, and the post which you used from a past previous post of mine is illustrating the colors of the "Front harness" wires and not the wires soldered to the switch itself.

zenbeast

Interesting.. they continuity check with a buzz to ground..

What do you think ? Is my ignition normal? I do not have a 4 wire connector..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zenbeast/6054960804/

satch

iTrader: (1)

"If the B/Y wire and the B/W wire coming from the Main relay via the four wire plug always have constant voltage w/the key to on then the Black wire and the B/W wire (front harness) in the ignition switch are good and there are no ifs and or buts to this. The B/R wire (front harness) in its own plug at the ignition switch is "only" used to provide voltage to the starter when turning the engine on so this isn't an issue either. The other ignition wires are for accessories and non engine running related issues"

satch

iTrader: (1)

If by chance you disconnected the pigtail and reconnected it incorrectly then use the info provided by Hailers in the following link.

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/dead-ignition-cylinder-949333/


And do you have a fuel cutoff switch installed?

zenbeast

I will check the pigtail plug when i get home..
I do not have a fuel cutoff switch. And i have not found one..

zenbeast

The pigtail is working fine.. i did unplug and plug it in a few times to be sure it set right. Constant 12 v...

satch

iTrader: (1)

Does pin 3I (Main relay) have battery voltage w/key to on? Have you checked FEM-02 to see if both sides,especially the emission side, has battery voltage w/key to on as well as start on the pair of B/Y wires. Again, these wires power the injectors.

zenbeast

you mean emissions side like ECU right?
Oh i found some stuff.. that might help me.. you were on the post.. I guess there is a 17 second start up cycle then the AFM takes over for all the fuel regulation.. So i think i will test the wires to the AFM and do the Air bypass 2k ohms resistor and voltage test..

I figure it might be a good place to test.. just in case a broken wires would stop the start cycle..

? ya?

satch

iTrader: (1)

The AFM takes over when the engine rpm reaches above 500 rpm during startup, until then the ECU controls this aspect.

The high rev cycle only controls the rpm and doesn't specifically control the fuel one way or the other.

And the emissions side would be the ECU side as this side of the harness transfers the voltage from the front harness which is the side that supplies voltage to the coils. If the coils always have voltage w/key to on and start then that voltage should also make it to the injectors unless of course the connection at FEM-02 was suspect. If need be, two jumper wires could be run from the B/Y wires of the front harness to the emission side at the Orange connector although the two wires on each side of this connector fuse into just one wire which happens to split into two individual wires right before and after this connector so one jumper "should" suffice.

And you're really shooting yourself in the foot by not removing the small ECU plug housing the Green injector wires and supplying a ground wire via a jumper w/the fuel check connector jumpered and turning the key to either on and or start to see if the injectors fire. Since the ground is being supplied manually both the primary and secondary injectors could be tested to see if the wiring is absolutely working regardless of what test was done to this wire or that wire. Proper diagnosis is key here which has somehow been left at the alter.

zenbeast

I did apply a hand drill 12 volt battery to down the wires to the injectors.. they totally fire and spray.. from the ECU side..

And i know the ECU works.. so.. some wire or other part is busted.. but what can stop.. and make the intermittent issue..

Would the Air bypass if bad or wire broken .. do that?

satch

iTrader: (1)

Checking the injectors as in your video is "completely different" than what I have suggested, which seems like a dozen times or so. My suggestion would check the viability of the voltage on the B/Y wire, the viability of the injector clips/plugs and the viability of the ground wire from the ECU. The Air Bypass is not the issue. I have mine completely bypassed and it affects nothing but the level of rpm on a cold start. That system only engages on a cold start and if the coolant temps are above a certain threshold such as 60 degrees or so.

satch

iTrader: (1)

Since you have the Resistor Box, the B/Y wire from the Main relay feeds the box which then passes the voltage onto various Brown wires that lead to the injectors so the Brown wire at the front primary injector receives is what powers this injector.

zenbeast

I see in a post # 36... you are hitting the issue... Help me understand "How" you wrote.

"Since the ground is being supplied manually both the primary and secondary injectors"

Now are we talking the CAS through the ECU. I need to understand this..

I have tested the B/Y wires.. every where.. the main relay to the resistor pack to the injectors.. to the ECU.. it's good top go.. it does not seem to drop or get intermittent.

But the the Manual Ground being supplied is what is is being intermittent. It was working and now is not.. after putting the car back together..

This understanding might just help... Ground pulse signal is supplied to what.. through what and then.. what wire could be intermittent and not work..

Thank you for any help..

satch

iTrader: (1)

If the small ECU plug were removed then the Green wire to the front primary injector would not be able to receive the ground from the ECU but if you jumpered a wire to the Green wire in the small ECU plug to manually supply the injector with a brief ground w/the fuel check connector jumpered and the key to on then the front primary injector should release fuel. This would tell you that the Brown wire from the Resistor Box is supplying proper voltage and the ground on the Green wire is finding its way to the injector and that the injector clip is good. You should try this for each injector.

You could also check the Blue wire at the Circuit Opening relay when the above steps are done to see if there is voltage going to the pump or not. Also, a damaged Pulsation Damper could prevent fuel from flowing properly.

zenbeast

Green wires from the small plug are tested.. injectors are squirting with manual voltage. Fuel pumping good with jumper. It is pumping with just cranking also.. 4 injectors are working manually..

Oh i did fine that 3B from the Circuit opening relay is not getting 12v with key on..

So i think its the one under the dash.. im going to go and check it again at the relay for the voltage.. it was working fine.. But maybe the wire to the 3B pin... then i guess bypass that wire.. Its something to check..

zenbeast

Hey on the manuals.. testing the Circuit opening relay.. 4A - 74 page..
Measuring plate is only open and Providing 12 v when i press the plate open? or does it have to be running?

Im not sure..

satch

iTrader: (1)

Pin 3B is the Starter Switch which is supposed to receive close to 10 volts when cranking the engine and then when the engine starts and the key springs to the on position then the voltage drops to less than 1.5 volts. The car uses this signal to decide how much fuel to use on startup but the car will start w/o this signal and this is not your problem.

It appears that now that you manually provided the ground using all of the necessary wires connected to the injectors provided by the stock wiring and that the ECU works on anothre car as I understood you to say then the likely problem is the "CAS signal." On your car there is an intermediate connector that separates the CAS from the ECU called FE04 and it has four wires on each side with the same colors on each side and those colors are the same colors as the ones found at the CAS pigtail. So, I would look over the connector right at the CAS pigtail first to see if those connections are proper and not pulled back within the plug then proceed to connector FE-04 which is located near the Main relay/trailing coil area and check that plug then look at the ECU to see if the wires are mating properly with the ECU. Disconnecting the plug and cleaning the metal contacts followed by adding some dielectric grease and making sure the wires are not pulled back should be your main focus. Again, chances are real high that this is your problem as most of everything else tests out properly.

zenbeast

So the car has not started.. and i have to move this weekend.. i wanted to drive the car.. not tow it..lol oh well..
I think i will be getting a used CAS.. and then even rewiring the plug to the CAS and ECU..

This is the best next step i can think of... and the CAS is a straight line to the ECU..

So.. New CAS and new wire...
I will replace the car wire by wire if i have to.. lol

satch

iTrader: (1)

Forgot your car is an 86 as the 88's have the intermediate connector for the CAS wiring, which is unfortunate in your case for it removes the possibility of the intermediate connector being at fault. If it's possible to do so then take your CAS and put it into another car to see if runs the other car properly much in the same way you did for your ECU. The CAS usually doesn't breakdown but if you peer inside it to see if the internal wiring connections looks good that might be of help if you haven't already done so.

And I believe you checked the Blue wire at the Circuit Opening relay for voltage w/key to on but how about while the key is held to start as it might be possible that the voltage cuts out with key to start but not w/key to the on position. And also of importance is at the Circuit Opening relay there are two wires that provide the relay w/voltage and one wire provides voltage w/key to start while the other wire provides voltage w/key to on. When you tested the injectors by placing a manual ground on the Green wires and they worked you were relying on the wire which provides voltage to the relay w/key to on but not at start . The Black/White wire on the top row far left of the plug when looking into the back of the plug is the wire for voltage w/key to start and perhaps this wire is not working properly and this would prevent fuel from flowing w/key to start so you need to verify if fuel flows w/key to start. You could remove one of the fuel hoses such as the return line and place it in a jug and try to start the car to verify if fuel flows or not. Perhaps/hopefully this has been the problem all along.

zenbeast

I got the car started.. after a long test everything out.. I am not sure what the full issue was. Boy do I know more about my rotary though..

It seems that i have to floor the gas to get it to start though.. and it will stall until it gets warm.. But after its warm it is working fine..

So if anyone know what this issue is.. thanks for any help.