General Rotary Tech Support Use this forum for tech questions not specific to a certain model year

Another fd that cranks but wonít start!!!!

Old 12-29-17, 09:00 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kylet1991's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Another fd that cranks but wonít start!!!!

Hello everyone I am in need of some wisdom and guidance that anyone might be so kind as to lend me. I am trying to get my car to start it has been sitting for about 3 an a half to 4 years before I took ownership of the car so I have been doing some work on the car just recently and I would just like to see if it will start. I have changed the oil and found the fuel pump was bad so replaced that also I took the plugs out and spun the motor with fuel pump unhooked as to deflood it. The motor sounds great very strong and consistent spins with ease I have checked spark and yes itís good also so I have air fuel and spark but wonít start.??? 🤯 when I turn it over I have no oil pressure at all on the gage and havenít been able to get it to show any at all I have a good deal of mechanical knowledge but I am fairly new to the rotary not sure if the fd has an oil alert that might be keeping it from starting so any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you
Kylet1991 is offline  
Old 12-30-17, 12:22 PM
  #2  
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
 
Gen2n3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 1,600
Received 150 Likes on 135 Posts
Kyle,

First, please do not write run-on sentences! Use punctuation so I and other members can make sense of your request. You need to remove all doubts about the things you checked, replaced, repaired, etc...

I strongly encourage you to download the FSM and use it as a reference. When possible, cite specific sections from the FSM with your requests.

Here are my observations and questions to you:
1. The stock oil pressure gauge will not indicate pressure while you crank the engine over. If it does move, it will be minimal, at best.

2. How did you diagnose the fuel pump as a bad part? Did you follow fuel pressure & hold checks from the FSM?

3. What do you mean by spin the motor?

4. Did you replace the spark plugs - do you have the leading and trailing plugs installed in the proper sockets?

5. Did you connect the spark plug wires correctly - L1 to L1, T1 to T1, etc?

6. Did you test the spark plug wires to ensure proper electrical contact?

7. Is the battery fully charged and properly filled with acid (if not an Optima battery)?

8. Did you perform a de-flood procedure? Did you suspect it was flooded? If so, please describe the procedure you used.

9. What mods does the car have (either when you bought it or done yourself)?

10. Welcome to the world of FD rotaries!

Cheers,
George

Last edited by Gen2n3; 01-05-18 at 09:39 AM. Reason: Corrected Item 5: T1 to T1.
Gen2n3 is offline  
Old 12-30-17, 12:57 PM
  #3  
Playing Well
iTrader: (19)
 
Natey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 3,892
Received 56 Likes on 44 Posts
One other thing I'd do is drain the 4 year old fuel from the gas tank, preferably before trying to start the car.
Natey is offline  
Old 12-30-17, 09:54 PM
  #4  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kylet1991's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs down

Originally Posted by Gen2n3 View Post
Kyle,

First, please do not write run-on sentences! Use punctuation so I and other members can make sense of your request. You need to remove all doubts about the things you checked, replaced, repaired, etc...

I strongly encourage you to download the FSM and use it as a reference. When possible, cite specific sections from the FSM with your requests.

Here are my observations and questions to you:
K
1. The stock oil pressure gauge will not indicate pressure while you crank the engine over. If it does move, it will be minimal, at best.

2. How did you diagnose the fuel pump as a bad part? Did you follow fuel pressure & hold checks from the FSM?

3. What do you mean by spin the motor?

4. Did you replace the spark plugs - do you have the leading and trailing plugs installed in the proper sockets?

5. Did you connect the spark plug wires correctly - L1 to L1, T1 to T2, etc?

6. Did you test the spark plug wires to ensure proper electrical contact?

7. Is the battery fully charged and properly filled with acid (if not an Optima battery)?

8. Did you perform a de-flood procedure? Did you suspect it was flooded? If so, please describe the procedure you used.

9. What mods does the car have (either when you bought it or done yourself)?

10. Welcome to the world of FD rotaries!

Cheers,
George
Ok well first off I would like to deeply apologize for for the inconvenience of my original post. Also I would like to say thank you for pushing through it and completely reading it. 1. The oil pressure gauge in the car dose not show anything at all, I didnít know that it would not produce any oil pressure at all so thank you. But I removed the oil feed line for the turbo to see if I was getting anything there I wasn, so I removed the oil filter and it to was dry. I guess Iím just trying to figure out if this is normal or not. 2. The fuel pump/tank before ever trying to start the car I drained the tank and also did an inspection surprisingly the tank was spotless. On top of that there was only about 1/2 gallon of fuel in the tank. My next step was to unhook the fuel line as to flush anything out of the lines with fresh gas no in the tank. I turned the key and no fuel? I learned by way of searching the forums the the fuel pump should only receive power when the motor is cranking. After trying this and still not getting any fuel I began to check power supply as I figured any other person would have done. I found I was getting very good power to the pump so I decided to pull it out and check it out. When I got the pump out and hooked it to 12v and it did nothing to me it was clear that the pump was no longer working. I replaced it with a oem type part from the parts store and like magic I have fuel pumping through the lines in seconds. 3. Spark!!! So yes I did the responsible thing and replaced all plugs. I matched the plugs as I pulled them one at a time and replaced the same way with wires right in line. To the best of my knowledge yes all wires are in the correct spot I did check the plug wires and all do have a strong spark. 4. Brand new red top optima $275.005. Deflood as I said before I removed all plugs and disconnected the fuel pump. And I (spun) the motor by witch I mean turned it over. Giving the starter a break every 15-20 sec and did this for about a minute or two in order to make sure no fuel was in the motor. I only did this a precaution as to make the start easyer on the motor.
6. Mods that the car has single gt45r type turbo (China) made installation done by PO. 3 1/2Ē full exhaust by P.O. rotary works v-mount intercooler rad. Installed by my self also PFC and Greddy pro spec b boost controller. I was told the motor has a mild street port done to it Iím not sure tho. So I hope this information will be a bit more helpful to anyone that may be willing to help me out and give any information. Thank you all again
Kylet1991 is offline  
Old 12-31-17, 10:45 AM
  #5  
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
 
Gen2n3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 1,600
Received 150 Likes on 135 Posts
Kyle,

You're welcome and thanks for the feedback. Here are some additional thoughts:

1. The oil filter will not normally have oil in it because of it's location and orientation. It sits on a pedestal on top of the motor and gravity will eventually drain oil down the lines. Was there any evidence of oil in the filter or was it bone dry? If it had zero oil in the filter then could it have been freshly installed?

2. It is necessary to prime the fuel system after it was opened. The FSM discusses this procedure; basically, using a jumper in the diagnostic port will switch the fuel pump on when the key is set to ON. Look for the fuel pressure & hold tests for more about it. There are similar procedures for the FC & FB, for those who read this thread. Good move to test the fuel pump outside of the system. At least that problem is solved. However, I recommend that you perform the fuel pressure & hold test. This would determine if you have leaks in the line or potentially indicate a problem with the fuel injectors.

3. What spark plugs did you use for leading and trailing? Was it BUR7EQP for leading and BUR9EQP for trailing? Both 7EQP plugs are installed on bottom half and the 9EQP plugs are installed on the top half. Are all plugs seated fully into the housing? Do you have a thin-walled spark plug socket to aid in their installation? The plugs do not need to be torqued onto the housing. Approx 1/4 turn from snug on the socket wrench will do. That aids in replacement after many heat cycles of the engine.

4. Verify that the L1 coil is connected to the L1 spark plug (low front) and L2 coil is connected to the L2 spark plug (low rear). The same goes for the T1 coil to T1 spark plug (high front) and T2 coil to T2 spark plug (high rear). Typically, I physically hold each wire in-hand and trace it to the respective spark plug. Each spark plug hole on the housing is embossed with each position. If the wires are crossed then that affects timing and could cause a no-start condition.

5. De-flooding the motor. How did you disconnect the fuel pump? Did you disconnect the EGI fuse in the engine bay? That is the preferred method. Did you press the gas pedal fully to the floor during the purge (this is a must); did you notice any fuel smell after the combustion chamber was purged? Did you hear strong pulses of air escape from the spark plug holes or did one sound "dead"? After the purge, did you inject oil (MMO or pre-mix) in the leading spark plug hole of each housing? This is necessary to build enough compression to start the engine. When attempting to start the motor, did you reconnect the fuel pump? You may have to perform this procedure 3-4 times in order to get it started.

6. Now, you verified the fuel pump delivers fuel and the spark plugs are producing strong spark (and they are properly connected). What is the remaining element necessary to start the combustion process? AIR! Verify that your MAF/MAS (mass air flow sensor) works. Again, refer to the FSM for proper testing of the MAF.

7. Did you install a Power FC and boost controller? What map are you using for the PFC? If not properly installed then it may cause starting problems. I lack that experience to further comment so seek out help from members who have been there; or they may chime in below. The boost controller may also have an effect on starting the engine however, I lack that experience to comment.

Let us know what you find out.

Happy New Year,
George

P.S. When de-flooding the engine, it should sound similar to this YouTube video (go to time index 5:25):


Last edited by Gen2n3; 12-31-17 at 10:46 AM. Reason: Added time index remark.
Gen2n3 is offline  
Old 12-31-17, 11:12 AM
  #6  
Time or Money, Pick one
iTrader: (31)
 
silverTRD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Torrance, ca.
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes on 17 Posts
Have you put oil on the housings after your de flood procedure? You need that for compression. I chased that rabbit down the hole before let me tell ya.
silverTRD is offline  
Old 01-01-18, 10:29 AM
  #7  
Full Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Mr357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 61
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Do you have any way of knowing if the car is throwing Check Engine codes? In my first month of ownership I struggled with a stubborn no start issue, and just like you I went through the hassle of verifying spark and fuel pressure, de-flooding the engine, and messing with the aftermarket security system (which I later ripped out). As it turned out, the coolant temperature sensor was broken. After I replaced that it started up on the first crank. I had a CEL code to confirm the problem, but a symptom was the radiator fans kicking on as soon as the ignition was turned to "on."

Last edited by Mr357; 01-01-18 at 10:32 AM.
Mr357 is offline  
Old 01-01-18, 11:03 AM
  #8  
Eh
iTrader: (55)
 
djseven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 6,232
Received 54 Likes on 50 Posts
Are you seeing the tach bounce very slightly while cranking? You have to look closely. If yes, your egi system is fine and it is likely compression is low due to stuck seals. Put a cap full of oil in the front and rear lower intake manifold ports Reinstall the UIM and start the car.
djseven is offline  
Old 01-01-18, 08:47 PM
  #9  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kylet1991's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ok everyone I have some updates for yíall.


George I did some more checking on the plugs and wires. Turns out I was given the wrong plugs or I bought the wrong plugs either way I have four BuR9eqp plugs in the car FML!!!!



Djseven. I did check to see if the tack moves at all while being cranked and yes it does so I believe egi is working. I also did re complete the de-flood process and followed it up by putting a small amount of oil in the housings. Even with that done still nothing.




So unfortunaly i will not will not be figuring out what is wrong with the car at this time,since I must return to work on the 4th and I am working out of state as usual.im not sure when I will be able to get home and work on it again I do know I will be buying another set of plugs and wires, may also consider ignition system just to eliminate any and all doubts. Thank you all for your input I will will keep you posted.
Kylet1991 is offline  
Old 01-02-18, 11:13 AM
  #10  
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
 
Gen2n3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 1,600
Received 150 Likes on 135 Posts
Kyle,

Changing the plug wires are a PITA. It involves a remove/reinstall the UIM & replace UIM gaskets, etc. Refer to Section G of the FSM for more info about testing the Ignition System. It should start around Pg G-16. Check the ignition wires, coils, & igniter.

When you de-flooded the engine again, did you hear even pulses? Did the car run when you installed the PFC? Have you ruled out the PFC is not the cause of no engine start?

You can also check for CEL codes by jumpering the TEN and GND pins on the diagnostic port in the engine bay. A breakdown of CEL codes and procedures to initiate & clear CEL codes are found here: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...-codes-851414/

Cheers,
George
Gen2n3 is offline  
Old 01-05-18, 09:31 AM
  #11  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Suffolk, Va
Posts: 247
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Those plugs are what I have in my FC. I am not sure the differences for the FD. Once you get the right plugs. Before you go crazy testing everything try the method below. If this doesn't work verify fuel and spark and of course wires connected correctly. I did not read all of the above. I just skimmed some of it.

Silver TRD said this.

"Have you put oil in the housings after your de flood procedure? You need that for compression. I chased that rabbit down the hole before let me tell ya."

So on the top of the throttle body their are 2 hoses you can pull and pump some oil in there to let that build compression. Then try and start the car. This will get the car to start. I don't actually have an FD. but have seen it done a few times. If your having trouble starting this is an easy way to get it to start. You just need a little oil pump or something to get the oil in there.
smikels is offline  
Old 01-05-18, 09:58 AM
  #12  
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
 
Gen2n3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 1,600
Received 150 Likes on 135 Posts
Hi Shane,

We will have to wait to hear from the OP as he is unreachable for the foreseeable future. There are several questions that remain unanswered from the OP. Chiefly, did the car run when he bought it. He claimed that it sat for approx 4yrs prior to his purchase. Additionally, he installed a PowerFC and boost controller after he got the car. There was no mention of the car running when he bought it or in between the upgrades to the PFC and boost controller or it running afterwards. If he claimed to have spark and proper fuel pressure then I would guess the problem is related to the new ECU map, boost controller, CAS, MAS, ignition timing, a weak motor, or a combination of all. We will have to wait and see on this one!

Cheers,
George
Gen2n3 is offline  
Old 01-06-18, 09:54 AM
  #13  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kylet1991's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gen2n3 View Post
Hi Shane,

We will have to wait to hear from the OP as he is unreachable for the foreseeable future. There are several questions that remain unanswered from the OP. Chiefly, did the car run when he bought it. He claimed that it sat for approx 4yrs prior to his purchase. Additionally, he installed a PowerFC and boost controller after he got the car. There was no mention of the car running when he bought it or in between the upgrades to the PFC and boost controller or it running afterwards. If he claimed to have spark and proper fuel pressure then I would guess the problem is related to the new ECU map, boost controller, CAS, MAS, ignition timing, a weak motor, or a combination of all. We will have to wait and see on this one!

Cheers,
George
Ok hey guys hope yíall are have a good New Years so far. So just to clear some things up for everyone 1. The car was not running when I bought the car at the time of my purchase the car had already set for about a year and a half to 2 years. I didnít take possession of the car for about another year or so because I was working in Kentucky and the car was in Arizona. 2. The pfc was installed only because the car didnít have any ecu in it at all. As for the boost controller I bought the he same one that was in the car before I bought it as I knew the P.O. and what was in the car. While the car was sitting someone raided the car took the ecu boost controller (box only) bov #1 charge pipe and a few other odds and ends. 3. To make a long story short the P.O. also works on the road and left the car in the care of a so called friend. When he got a call stating the car just wouldnít start anymore. Yeah Iím sure lol. And so it sat and I finally got him convinced to let me buy the car it was in bad shape but I knew the potential of it. So in the past 3 years at least the car has not ran. 4. I have tried everything that has been suggested in the above posts and still no good results. The Pfc has just a base map as to try and get the car running (not sure if I need a different map). As I said in my above post I ran out of time to do further tests on the car. Unfortunately we all have to make a living and mine just so happens to keep me away from home for the most part. So with all that being said we all know it comes down to time or money so Iím looking into sending the car to APU
Kylet1991 is offline  
Old 01-16-18, 12:08 AM
  #14  
Full Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle WA
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 10 Posts
From my own recent experience of dropping a new motor in my FD and having some starting issues, here is what I found on mine:

1 - Plug wires probably need changed; mine had one bad plug wire The motor started, but ran like crap, and made the cat glow cherry red, meaning I had a bad leading plug (or coil). Tested all four wires and coils with the ohm meter and sure enough one of them was toast.
2 - In my case I had just installed a GM 3 bar map sensor, since my FD didn't have one when I got it. without changing the proper values in the PFC with the datalogit, the car wouldn't start, unless I unplugged the vacuum line from the map sensor, though I don't think this applies to you, I figured I would just put it here for reference just in case.
3 - When you are doing your de-flooding procedure (as i'm sure you've seen in the videos by now) listen for the air being pushed out by each side of the rotor. There should be no pauses in the "pst" sound coming out of the spark plug hole when you crank the engine. should just be "pst, pst, pst, pst, pst" this is the "poor mans" compression test.
4 - Can you hear the fuel pump running when you turn the key to the on position? you should hear it come on for two seconds. I would recommend installing a FP gauge, that way you know you are getting the proper pressure.

Test out the wires (or replace them) test out the coils while you have the UIM out. Verify fuel pressure, to ensure you are getting fuel up to the rails. After that you might have to test out the injectors, to make sure they aren't stuck and not spraying. (unless when you pull the plugs after trying to crank it, you can see they are wet). Keep at it, hopefully it starts up for you soon.
TTrotary7 is offline  
Old 04-01-18, 06:49 PM
  #15  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Kylet1991's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Itís alive

Ok everyone I know itís been a few months since Iíve had any time for the car. But that is not the case this weekend. I came home for the holiday and had to sneak in some time in the garage. So I bought brand new spark plugs for the car replaced them did fuel pressure test and when all was good decided to check primary inductors. Well not working. Was able to get them cleaned up and working. I will be replacing all of them in the near future just wanted to see if this would solve the problem. And guess what it did so complete fuel system upgrades on the way so excited hard to control myself. Thanks for all yíalls help
Attached Files
Kylet1991 is offline  
Old 04-01-18, 09:10 PM
  #16  
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
 
Gen2n3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 1,600
Received 150 Likes on 135 Posts
Kyle,

Good to hear and see that your car is running again! I'm glad to help where and when it was needed. One thing though...did you mean to say "primary injectors" as in fuel injectors or the leading coil (primary inductors???)? I presume you meant to say primary fuel injectors based upon the context of your post.

Again, good to hear about the problem was solved!

Cheers,
George
Gen2n3 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
grandpas car
New Member RX-7 Technical
3
05-02-13 01:52 PM
andre sinclair
3rd Generation Specific (1993-2002)
2
09-13-05 09:21 AM
fastcarfreak
Microtech
0
07-07-05 08:28 PM
Curtass
2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
4
03-14-05 01:22 AM
westtexas
1st Generation Specific (1979-1985)
9
12-10-04 09:20 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Another fd that cranks but wonít start!!!!


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: