silikenrf

I spent the last hour reading posts based on searching for map tracer. Lots of valuable info, most notably just wait for the datalogit and wb sensor and find a dyno (leave the PFC alone with the base mod maps and stay away from 13psi+). A few: cewrx7r1, SPOautos, Spyfish, KZ1 seem to have been working on this for years, so I guess I will have to pay my dues...hopefully without blowing motors. I still have the questions below, but the more I read, the more I understand why no response.

-Kevin



My PFC is installed, and I adjusted various setting based on the stock mod map and some of the knowledge I gained here. I do not have access to a dyno as yet, and have the Datalogit, Techedge DIY WB on the way.

I have a "home" dyno which interprets data based on ignition pulses, but that's it until the WB comes.


3+ questions:

1. I have all of the pieces coming, but I haven't found a map close enough to my mods to spend time entering raw data. If someone has one for a Rotary Performance street port, stock turbos (sequential), DP, MP, single RB catback, Supra Fuel Pump, Greddy Medium IC and cold air intake, I would greatly appreciate it.


2. Can I just replace the stock O2 sensor with the WB and "Y" the signal to both the DIY WB and my pretty A/F meter?

3. Anyone successfully tune their PFC with the WB such that it was close to what the dyno requested? Using the Datalogit in analog mode?

TIA

Kevin

silikenrf

O.K. my first post asks for the answers - probably not the right way to start... How about a method or process by which one should follow in tuning their PFC for their own mods?

Please correct me if I am misguided.

1. get a WB sensor and readout (waiting for parts)
2. get a Datalogit (waiting)
3. get the idle tuned (done)
10 minute warmup and then adjust idle/air screws and if necessary, adjust idle settings on commander.
4. run the car (watch 8 monitor readout and set to hold on high values) watch for engine codes to be thrown.
5. monitor knock (mine has not gone over 100 max and likes to be in the 60 + range)
6. keep boost below 13psi (leave the commander on setting 1) keep below .85 kg/cm^2
7. I changed acceleration delay at 1000rpms to 1ms and it corrected my hesitation.
8. I have been watching the trace maps and understand that columns are 400 rpm blocks and rows are vacuum and boost, but how should I interpret the "ghost" and what adjustments should I make as a result?

I borrowed a GTech pro - is it worth using to dial things in?


-Kevin

the_saint

Your WB o2 sensor has a much greater range than the stock one, as well the signal is inverse.

You will not be able to just hook it up to your a/f ratio gauge without inverting the signal first, and then either compressing it to give a smaller range or else calibrating it to read around a certain point, perhaps, stoich/rich.

thesaint

silikenrf

I knew that the WB sensor was 0 -> 4+ volts, but didn't know that it was inverse. Thanks. I did see a post where a formula was used to get the datalogit to read the analog signal and convert it to a usable value - have to search for it again.

forcefed1

from what I can see you are going about this the correct way. but im sire you could find that one of teh maps is sutable for your mods and a good place to start tuning.

When I first plugegd in another map. Every time I started the car I would go right to the IGL,IGT,INJ screen and take out first trailing timing then leading (by 10 deg) and then I added 10 to the fuel. then I drove the car and watched and listened and felt for problems... slowly I would dial things closer and closer to the base map (not remove timing and fuel) and after about a week I was comfortable with things.
I also set my boost to 7-8 PSI for quite a while.

now I got teh DIY WB and installed it right in place of teh stock sensor but no wired into the stock sensor.
then I turned off the o2 feedback now I may get worse mileage but I can always look at the WB readout to see how things look.

I tried to have a friend watch teh WB while I drive but there was just too much data for him and It didn't work well. Im going to mount teh WB readout and teh PFC commander together and use a video camera to watch things... as long Ias I don't see any danger zones (say 13s under load) ill then go to map trace function and again record. This way I should be able to tune some more of the non dyno pull parts of the map.
When im all done Ill put teh factory O2 back in and turn the FB controll on to get better gas mileage.


IfI didn't have another toy car sucking up my money right now I would get the datalogit and tune that way.
one thing to note. the WB follows RPM about 200-400 later.
hopw this helps.
BTW from tuning other cars timing should be low under boost say no more then 21023 deg on leading.
as for timing tuning.... you'll need a dyno.

silikenrf

Thanks forcefed1,

I got my datalogit yesterday and just pinged techedge about the DIY I ordered a month ago. I will post a circuit that converts the DIY analog output to 0-1V so that we can go closed loop and use our pretty A/F meters. For now, I have it up on jackstands cleaning (changing brakes) oil and differential fluids. I am waiting for some tires, so it might be a day or two before I am logging results.

I like the video tape idea...you should see how I am flowing air to cool my brakes (3" Al Dryer tubing ... Don't laugh, it actually looks quite professional.

If you know of a map that handles my mods, let me know. Street Ported, DP, MP, RB Catback, Greddy elbow and K&N cold air intake (supposed to make a difference) an off brand, but large IC, Supra Fuel Pump, Power Pulley on the way also. It also has Advanced Designs M2 all the way around.

Thanks Again!

weaklink

I guess you know techedge's server went down a few days ago. It is supposed to be back up today. I still don't have my DIY WB and it has been a month as well. I take it you posted this same topic to the datalogit group. Since you will have the datalogit, you won't have to do the camera thing. Since it will accept 0-5 input and the DIY WB is 0-3.1 it will log the voltages for you, then you can use the chart on techedge's site to convert volts to A/F. I sprang for the A/F display so that I can always keep an eye on things. I got the DIY so that I wouldn't wreck trying to read the o2 volt on the PFC! I don't know enough about electronics to know if you convert from 0-3v to 0-1v if you lose sensitivity. I would think that you would. Does that negate the benefit of a WB in the first place? I am just going to have an extra bung put in. As far as maps to run, I would stick with the base maps as a start. I am going single turbo and at first will still run the base map with different injectors and non seq settings.

silikenrf

Yeah, I posted on the Datalogit group. I also ordered the readout for the same reasons. I sent email to techedge to see what was up, but no reply as yet.
----
It doesn't negate the wideband because the relationship between voltage and A/F is "more" linear. The standard O2 sensor is like a step function its either rich or lean. The transition between the two is stochiometric (14.7) and is at 0.5V slightly higher A/F and you are at 0V slightly lower than 14.7 and you are at 1V. The transition region is steep. The wide band has a thermistor to calibrate out effects of temperature and gives a better transition, thus more accurate A/F.

I have been thinking about doing the double bung, but it means that I have to remove the turbo manifold to get to the top two bolts on the downpipe. I think that if I just made a circuit which takes the output of the techedge and converts it (invert and re-center), I would save a busted knuckle.

weaklink

Thanks for the info on the sensor. If you build this would you pm me? I am getting a single put in, so the dp is going to be out anyway, so I decided to go with the extra bung, but it would be neat if I could simplify the displays with one sensor. It is a good idea you have regardless. BTW, I got an email from Peter. He says he is behind just a bit, but he only lost maybe a couple of orders with the HDD failure. The rest were backed up. A super nice guy, he gave me my order number and order date. No doubt he is swamped with email right now...I give him a lot of credit just having responded.

silikenrf

Funny, I called Peter too. I told him what my circuit design was going to do and said I would send it to him to include in PCB rev 2 as another reference example. Very nice guy.

I am about 3 weeks out from receiving mine. I think my order number is 3019.

BTW, I removed the DP last night (what a bitch!) so that I could verify that my circuit was actually doing what it is supposed to. I guess I have 3 weeks to perfect it

weaklink

sweet-good luck with your circuit. HOLY COW! I'm #3185. Sheez maybe by Christmas.

silikenrf

nope UR ahead of me, my number is 3190

Only 5 between us

Badog

Edit: I got an order number after my last email: 321* We'll see where we go from there...

Well, I am in the same boat you guys are in with tuning using the Datalogit and the DIY-WB. Wish I could be doing it, is all.

weaklink

update, I'm still waiting...

ha...right after i posted this I got an email from Peter. Should ship in 3wks! Perfect, motor should be in by then.

SilverR1

Well after reading this thread I emailed Peter to find out when I should be expecting mine and he said that I was order #3180 but no expected date. Hopefully if he told you 3 weeks I should be seeing it the same time. Let me know if you guys get anymore updates. Can't wait to get mine.

7 eleven

Well I'm #3199 I was hoping before the end of June but now...

weaklink

...maybe, I'm expecting mine by then.