paganizondadude

iTrader: (1)

So ive been thinking about building a RELIABLE rotary engine for my drift car. I really dont wanna take it apart every year or blow up a motor after a year. So lets make a list of mods for the engine and other bolt ons that will make a reliable 8k rpm constant motor. Also on the list are mods that are a ...DUH!... that are easy/ free hp. Here is the list of mods ive made (sure I forgot some). Please supply your input! Also input on good AFR's, coolant temps and oil temps that will make it more reliable..

All mods are assuming you already have: a turbo, emissions delete, standalone ecu, and proper maintenance is already done, ect..

My goal is 350whp at 14lbs with capabilitys of 500-550whp.

Also these are not $10,000,000 mods. Im thinking a motor for 5k will be just fine..

Internal:
-Full S5 motor (housings, rotors, plates) [yeah i suppose FD is better]
-Turblown stud kit
-Thermal pellet
-Weber carb jet in e shaft
-port as much of the oil passages ect. as possible
-3 window bearings for the stationary gears
-hardened and cryo treated stationaries
-fully balanced rotating assembly (e-shaft, flywheel, clutch)
-2mm RA super seals with OEM Mazda everything else (FD corner springs, ect.)
-Mild half bridge with semi round upper and square lower edge exhaust ports with big bevel (saves lower end torque and apex seal shock)
-Full port matched intake mani (lower to keg, lower to upper, ect.)
-ported and polished tb with custom tb elbow
-premix with a 75:1 mix
Water seals???

External:
-Dual oil coolers
-relocated oil filter with larger filter
-Water/meth injection (its a must for detonation and temps!)
-good radiator with proper fans to ensure you NEVER overheat
-full wrapped turbo, manifold and downpipe to save underhood temps
-good fmic for air intake temps with minimum piping to save spool up

stevensimon

iTrader: (11)

20b is a reliable 350hp drift engine. running just slightly over stock. twice the torque.

looks like a good list. i dont like porting engines though but other than that, it will be a decent motor as long as its a decent tune

vosko

iTrader: (4)

with how hard drifting is on the engine.... it costs way too much to make a rotary reliable doing it

i agree with tweak

bewst12psi

iTrader: (7)

75:1 is super rich... You're gonna be fogging for misquitos for sure... I run mine 128:1 (1oz Klotz per 1 Gal of fuel)

I blew mine up 2 times already... but the setup I have now seems to be working really well

S4 T2 Rotors
2mm RA CLASSIC apex seals (w/ atkins springs)
Atkins rebuild Kit
Atkins solid Corners
S5 Irons w/ LATE S5 rear Iron (the big guy)
Large Street Port (slightly modded Pineapple)
STOCK rear oil pressure regulator... ill elaborate on that later
Turbo oil pump
Pineapple oil Pan
Turblown Studs
Heat Range 10 NGK's
PT6262 SP billet wheel Turbo
Tial 44 WG
V-mount
Tial 50mm BOV
1000cc pri/ 1650cc 2nd
Denso Supra Pump
fuel rails and -8 lines
3inch exhaust
Haltech PS1000
Custom Uim w/ 85mm TB (probably would have been fin with a ported stock one)
makes ~480 to the wheels on 19lbs. :shrug:

and I agree with Vosko... I am converting to E85 over the winter to keep it a little safer than pump/meth.... but WHEN this motor dies, the car gets a LS3

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

If you love rotary as I do too much to go V8-

I +1 the 20B but say do it NA for reliability and model your car after a AE86 build (light weight/low power).

I tried the RA seals and 50:1 premix with the stock OMP and it wasn't enough to save the housings- they just eat chrome for breakfast, lunch and dinner with a few snacks along the way.

I am now using Mazda 3mm seals and they are super easy on the housings.

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

Buy your self a $900 RA Super Seal rebuild kit, delete your OMP. keep your motor stock port, and throw a 35r and a haltech on it with plenty of fuel behind it, and you'll be like me and smash V8's all day.

ever since my motor has been together i can't even count the times there's been an LS i've went up against and they didnt have some form power issue (not being able to keep up) or started knocking, or the few times they've all had PS pump failures at events....

you don't need fancy bearings and all that crap. you're thinking way too much. mazda put these motors out from the factory and they lasted anywhere from 80k-180k+ miles in turbo form. rebuild it, and be smart about it. make sure the entire car as a package is safe to beat on, and once everything is gone through, beat the **** out of it.

it's a rotary. it's fine. besides, even if it were to blow it's still always cheaper than rebuilding any piston motor...

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

smart guy! this is where people always have issues.

i went to buy a set of irons last night, and the guy ported them himself using a template. to me porting kills the reliability because every motor ive ever blown up was ported. there's 2 people i will trust to porting, and those dudes are Kyle Mohan, and Steve Singh, my engine builder for my car.

stevensimon

iTrader: (11)

>Not going to start a .. fight

tries to start a fight


this isnt a 'talk me into getting a pos truck engine' thread. this is a 'help my rotary be reliable' thread.

also ive been to plenty of drift days where v8s and srs are sidelined due to engine or trans or whatever issues. just means more track time for me and my 100% reliable unreliable hurrdurr rotary.

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

lol truck motor **** has me dying right now. hahaha i <3 this thread.

honestly to the OP if you kept your car stock, with 550/720 injectors, a wideband, FCD, deleted emissions/ratsnest, deleted OMP + 100:1 premix, and used pump 91/93 - 105 like it was the cure all you wouldn't have anything to worry about. up until june my car had about 3k track only miles with the stock ecu, stock turbo, and the above setup and it was still going until i decided to do negligent 4th gear drifts with a ton of rev limit carelessness. with that said it's still only going to cost me about a day, and $150 to repair my car.
pretty much the price of a headgasket for an Sr.

I fc3SLIDE

iTrader: (2)

ship your motor to jeremy lowe at lowes performance in sarasota fl dan chilton has been on his setup for 2 years making reliable 350+

paganizondadude

iTrader: (1)

People need to do their research on porting before they touch their motor. There are different things you need to do to the edges and the shape of the port to make the motor last and give it a little more low end power..

I think most of my list minus some of the ridiculous things (studs, half bridge, crazy hardened ****..) that would be an awesome motor...

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

my setup is seriously pretty much a factory motor with RA Super Seals. 88.5 Rotors. stock stationary gears, S4 irons/intakes, stock 100k mile bearings, RA water jacket/oring kit with the sides/3rdgen corners.

it's withstood injectors failing. fuel pump fuse blowing. secondary injectors not being hooked up and beating on it full bore/cutting out bad, 260* water temps + spraying water out of everything during the 4 OMT battles at FD Vegas last year, and most importantly the countless times i've fuel cut from running out of gas from not having a gas gauge with my haltech setup....

**** is beast. i littlerally do nothing but neglect it, park it for weeks, pull it out - hammer on it, and park it. i'm still 6 events/sessions deep on the same merky black oil.

idgaf about this thing and it loves it. with that being said though it cost me 6 motors, and $10k minimum to get through those 6 motors, and into the current setup. 3 of the previous motors were the full build - big port, good seals, the best housings/irons/rotors i could find, and the best setup possible with all new everything. i ended up giving the motor away in parts to be done with it when i was literally buying an LS1, and then came up on my TII car for $2100... the rest is history.

maybe i'm superstitious but now i'm a firm believer in starting out with true TurboII cars and not turbo swapping NA cars.

paganizondadude

iTrader: (1)

Buckey your motor hates you. Im not gunna over heat my ****.. EVER. Not gunna take chances blowing stuff up. Like i said... gunna make it last! But that is for sure a list of straight up abuse!

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

lol everytime you start it up, and do a pull it's taking a chance to blow it up. ;p you gotta just make sure you have it built right, and keep the fuel system 100%.

excess fuel, conservative tune, and a good build with solid parts behind it, and there's no reason it should blow up.

once i swap to an S5 iron, and do the stud kit, i'm thinking of having the port opened to a full bridge, and move to E85. ill have some pics up soon once i start pulling the car apart

Tatakai

iTrader: (2)

lol tweak i knew you'd chime in.

i read the first post of the thread and thought of replying "you're list needs pistons" but i figured since its a reliable ROTARY thread i'd let it be. LOL

i tried the rotary drifting route, but im too impatient and too broke. so im putting a 1jz in my FC

+1 reliable drifting engine = pistons

paganizondadude

iTrader: (1)

Tweak you will see me next year at evergreen. Car prolly wont be fully finished but it will be a fun first season..

wankle1

iTrader: (2)

I have no experience, but just like zondadude said, i like to hear turbo's and **** in drifting. Also isn't a v8 easier to drift? instant response? To me it makes me respect the people out there with turbo setup's that much more.

paganizondadude

iTrader: (1)

Yes v8's are like cake because all you have to do is keep in 3rd and power on. Like i said. I like to be shifting down to another gear to get power..

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

V8's are cool when you know what you're doing with them. i hate seeing people learn with V8's and people giving them "credit" for killing it, when really there are a bunch errors, but each time they get on the throttle and floor it in a corner - it sounds like theyre killling it and there's tons of smoke and then whenever they go back to transition it's back to ***** mode......

paganizondadude

iTrader: (1)

^ Buck knows whats up..

Daviticus

A proper rebuild with good seals and coolant rings, and a spot-on tune is all you need.

That being said, I'm currently going 5.0, with a stock S4 T-II swap on standby, and a bridged S4 T-II with a T04 if I feel like never driving it again.

lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

Honestly. RA seals, not changing your oil? you're asking for trouble, but then again. YOU aren't building the motor, hate to tell you, but you need a new engine builder. and a little more accountability in yourself. I'm not saying i don't beat on my engines, but i don't neglect them. how many more engines will you go thru before you decide to bash the rotary; for how it's preformed with the way you treat it.

TO OP.
It doesn't matter how you do it, what matters is the end result.
You want water/oil temps no more then 210 during session. You'll want to keep EGT's below ~1650. lower the better, but 1500 is A+. you'll also want STOCK OMP, and some premix on the top. i would concider AI, namely water, for power over 350. you're tune plays the biggest part, if you're having a "pro" tune it, then use higher compression rotors(S5,s6).

laramiejoe

Thanks man!

Dan's engine is more like 4+ years old (built sometime in 2007). I haven't broken anything in mine since 2009 I think?

Anyway, reliability is gonna be more in the tune and the rest of your setup than anything else. For the engine, just put it together correctly.

Tatakai

iTrader: (2)

let me or tweak know if you need any help/tips, good to see another rx7 around the NW haha

HOPEFULLY me and tweak are doing tandem FC's for pro-am next year, but im very dependent on if i can locate an engine in time. worst case scenario i'll be doing grassroots again with my FC, i came in 2nd last year ... in my s13

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

OMP Is garbage, unless you have it plumbed to a separate tank with 2cycle premix. i still run conventional oil, and never made the switch to synthetic so if you've ever pulled a motor apart even after a new rebuild you would know why i removed mine, and why i decide against running them. i actually think Howard Coleman has a pretty good thread somewhere on here about A/I, and premix.

all i can say is LOL!!! my motor is, and will be still going strong for a while to come. if you don't believe me just stay updated with my build thread and i'm sure it'll be on point for atleast another full season or 2 (if not 4 more)

breaking irons is one thing. i should've pinned the motor when it was assembled but yea definitely skimped and now i'm paying for it having to swap irons.

what you fail to realize is even though i haven't changed oil as often as E-Nerds think they should, my car only see's track duties. maybe gets 200 miles per event. if you're good with math total it up and tell me how bad you think it is. i promise you no one changes their oil EVERY driving event like they say they do. even if it were 5k miles on one oil change idgaf. still. couldn't care less. built this motor and wanted one season out of it. i got 2, and still counting so this is all bonus extra credit for me.

with that being said if my motor was fully built, and i actually cared a **** about worrying that it will blow up on me - i would treat it a little better. but it's so good, and the build was so on point that i have nothing to worry about, and i know it's going to be good for years to come BECAUSE of the abuse it's seen with me.

this thread deserves a good once over by everyone. i have been following it to a T and have nothing but good results so far.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/making-case-rotary-powered-fd-fix-806104/