if your under 18 you need your parents consent. you cant even get a loan by yourself if your under 18,so i quess the banks are stereeotypical aso huh? you can go there any time you want. BUT if you want to go with the rx7 group then you have to follow the rules. we are NOT saying you have to be a certain age,race,religion,genre,location,etc. its just a few simple rules. insurance is a law even in most states.

IF someone doesnt sign up to the event or follow the rules but still shows up,drives in a group and causes an accident then it starts a snowball. the person that it happens to or sees it starts thinking oh wow these RX7 ppl are bad drivers,the organizer started a bad event,the sponsors support bad people so ill never buy anything from them,these peple are from RX7CLUB/RX8CLUB and NOPISTONS so those are eveil forums. if you want to be a part of this group and help keep it going then just follow the rules. if dont like the rules then go there whenever you want to.


EDIT: something else thats kinda related just happened to pop up in my mind. for next year we also need to get emergency contact from everybody

 

Look, it is Phil's event and if he wants to call it Phil's Damn DGRR 08 next year and only wants to invite his 3 best friends...then he has every right to do so!! If he feels they need to be banned from his event (and as far as most everyone I know would agree that it is his event) then they are banned. PERIOD.

 

What did I just say. You can't have mistakes on that road. It was covered a hundred times at the meet. And you damn sure don't jump in on the tail end of the fastest group out there having never driven the road before and try to keep up.

 

To give street credit to were it is deserved turbo II is the fasted in my opinion on the mountain. nuf said.

 

but whats to stop people from getting a room at Fontana and driving the Gap on the same weekend as us? I mean it is a public road and public hotel, banned just means not participating in the meet and the parade and the groups and the banquet... they could still hang out with people at night and in between parts of the meet. Banned really means little if they wreck an rx7 on the same weekend that we are there... it will be hard to separate an incident like that from our meet...

 

WOW, I can't believe I didn't see this before. I'm the guy who everyone is talking about like they don't know who it was who ran into the FD last year. All you had to do was look at the deals gap thread last year. My car looked exactly the damn same, Don't beat around the bush, call me out already. I even talked to you phil after it had happend, you were standing there, I look the same as I did last year. You even said, man that guy was being kind of a dick.

1. Some of you are forgetting thats the reason they are called accidents. Because they happen. Let me tell you a little story of the Gap Jedi ROB who had an accident last year and was in the hospital for several weeks. He has lived 15 miles away from the dragon for 20 YEARS. And he damn sure has the fastest time but thats because accidents happen. BUT HE HAS HAD PLENTY OF ACCIDENTS

2. I do not mean this in disrespect Phil because I thanked you several times and was very glad to attend this year and have a lot of respect for you, Don't say some **** you have no idea about. I DID have insurance and everything got settled last year exactly like it should have.

3. You're right, you were not there and do not know what happened, you cannot look into everything that happens but wait, only 2 accidents happened. I'd say thats a pretty damn good track record. So in that aspect you could see exactly what happened in those 2 cases and make a decision at that point in time. There were 2 cars stopped in the middle of the road that shouldn't have been stopped there. A motorcycle had laid it down and his friend was stopped in the middle of the ******* road waiting for him to get up. The FD's could have driven around him but they chose to stop in the road. It was not brake fade, the brakes locked up and there was a rediculously small area to stop in. We were speeding as was everyone this weekend so I wasn't doing anything different than anyone else.

4. In fact I was elected to lead the slow group this weekend and everyone in the group knew it was I who had crashed last year. Did they feel unsafe??? NO

5. I've driven these roads ever since I've had a license and have been to the dragon maybe 25 or 30 times. It was not driver error, it was not faulty equipment, it was COMPLETELY unavoidable.

You're not hurting my feelings by banning me, I live an hour away from the dragon. But don't talk about someone without talking to him first. I love RX-7's and Rotaries in general, and I love driving them. I had a fender bender last year on the gap. ******* sue me.

Chris

 

LOL! I like it! I'm now going to rename the event to: "PD DGRR 08" aka "Phil's Damn DGRR 2008".

Seriously! i know there are few rules to next years event but most of it is common sense stuff. I know Skrewloose is pushing for insurance verification and he has every rights to do so... And I intend to do it because, its part of State of TN law!! I also intend to check everyone's Driver's License as Its the law and some of you might not have one or valid one (and also to verify to make sure you are 18 and over).

Bottomline, I don't want to enforce these kind of law but its for the best for everyone who attend. Those who complains and think its "rediculous", "stupid", or unreasonable, Its your choice to NOT attend. As I stated before, NO ONE is making you drive hours and hours to come to an event you don't agree with.. This event isn't mandatory or gear toward one specific group who wants to do whatever they want to do..

This event is about the rotary community and what we represent! I don't spend hundreds of hours thinking what I benefit from this event.. I do it for the community.. But there is a limit! Some of you need to realize that!

 

True but that is an awful lot of work to come up there and pay more than is neccessary just to make a point. Just sign the damn waivers and enjoy yourselves. Keep control of yourself and your car and there is absolutely nothing to worry about.

 

Braided Stainless lines, good tires, reman calipers, slotted rotors... Does that sound like faulty equipment to you??? And its damn sure not that I don't have enough practice driving that road.

 

Chris, I didn't know who you were this year and didn't quite remember you.

I also did not say the other guy was a dick! I believe your friends said that.. I didn't even know who the FD owner was until last sept when I met him in person. And he happens to be respectable businessmen in TN and he told me what happen.

Glad your feeling isn't hurt about my decision. And hence its not a lifetiime ban.. Im sure just as others approached me this year, people make mistakes and we all learn from it. Nothing personal but banning is to also deter future accidents. Its just happens to be that you are the guy who got into one... Don't take it personally!

 

The ban is bullshit. If you get into an accident next year will you not have a DGRR09 because you're not able to come? And I know its not a lifetime ban but I can't imagine that I would attend anymore anyway. I had a great time up until this. I could have just kept my mouth shut and came next year and no one would have thought different but its ok. There comes a point when you have to stand up for yourself when someone doesn't know what they're talking about.

Chris

 

well, i typed for 45 minutes then the forum f'ed up on me so now all that is lost. i dont have the time/patience to type it again so ill sum it up the best i can.

phil, the banning isnt a bad idea. i just dont agree with springing it on people rigth after it happens. they have to know beforehand. as of now no one should be banned, but you should say from now on anyone who wrecks or drives dangerously is banned.

drives dangerously? why did i say that? well heres why, you cant ban just the people who wreck. you need to ban anyone who drives wrecklessly. i know thatd be the majority of the group, but oh well. heres what ive been saying and everyone needs to realize DEALS GAP/129 IS A DAMN PUBLIC ROAD, NOT A RACE TRACK! PERIOD. if the road were to be blocked off from public use when we ran it, run as hard as you want. youll more than likely only risk hurting yourself. its not though, thats the problem. all the familys, brothers, sisters, mothers, dads, daughters, wives, husbands, etc. who are on the dragon arent expecting a race to being held that day, but it is. ive seen it. people just need to cruise the dragon. if you want to driev crazy go to a damn track. anyone who drives the dragon rediculously fast isnt a dumbass in my book. if you wreck and kill someones loved one you deserve to fry. period. its your actions that would lead to someone mother, father, wife, husband, etc being taken from them. do you have that right? hell no. so stop acting like you do. the DGRR group just needs to do calm passes through the dragon. not fly through in groups 1,2,3,etc. after the cruises break up and go your own way. if then you want to be a jackass and drive dangerously, so be it. i hope you get busted by a cop.

the whole group runs idea is a bad idea. esspecially for you. lets say someone runs in a group much too fast for them. they wreck and kill someone. the blame is then pointed at the group leader for leading them that fast and then back at you for organizing the event, and then onto the rx7 community.

i just think everyone needs to sit back and honestly realize deals gap/hwy 129 is just that, a highway. they need to honestly understand what they risk doing when they fly through it like is a race track. i dont know about any of you, but i couldnt live with myself if i took someone elses loved one away from them. i sure as well dont want to imagine it happening to me.

also, i can pretty much guarentee that the miata didnt sign a waiver. how do i know? from everything i saw only rx7s signed the waiver. does that mean only rx7s are associated with DGRR, no. still though, all the waiver is doing is saving your *** phil, its not doing to stop people from killing someone. you need to step up and crack down on wreckless driving. i know youre participated in it in teh past. i have done so also, but i wont anymore. anyone seen driving dangerously needs to be banned. period. no exceptions. no matter whos friend that are or who they are.

with all that being said. im not trying to rag on you phil. the fact is its just as youve stated. DGRR is a event that is constantly growing and changing. as things progress changes will have to be made. thats obvious. life is about trial and error. a rule may not work, so you change it and try to reform it. youre not going to nail it every time. i really appreciate everything you are doing for the meet. i understand how hard it must be to set it up and get everything flowing nicely, but the more you try to control things the harder its going to be on you. honestly, to make things the easiest and best solution would be to say DGRR is just the meet at the dam and banquet. no driving through the dragon is associated with you or DGRR. thats THE ONLY way to not hold you liable for what happens and to please everyone. that way a minor could come. youre only setting up a meet and greet and a dinner. how is a mnior going to get hurt doing that? now if they do something on the dragon and get hurt, its all on them, or anyone for that matter. the driving part just needs to be 100% free will and not DGRR controled.

 

I was leaning more towards the banned people and not the people who didn't want to sign the waivers. Personally I will be signing any waiver I get as I accept responsibility for myself. I was just expressing concern for the security of such an action.

In Chris's defense. He was not banned for this year, did not to run in the fast group because of what happened before, and didn't get in any accidents. Banning him from this years event wouldn't have done anything except kept him from having a good time this year. Speaking with him at the event even before I knew he was the person who had an accident last year I found him to be very down to earth, very knowledgable, and when talking about the gap found him to be very respectful of it, not talking about how fast he can go through it or how he could drift every corner. My point is, if there was a lesson to be learned, he learned it.

 

wasnt your wreck caused by a motorcyle in your lane and the FD owner hitting the brakes and you rearending him?

thats not your fault in anyway. you sure as hell cant blame everyone up there who rides the person in front of them *** cause then 90% of the DGRR group would be banned. you sure as hell cant control the bikers and theyre 90% of the problem, IMO. this is why the driving shouldnt be associated with DGRR at all. the driving is all you. DGRR should just be the meet and greet and the dinner. you drive the roads at your own will/risk.

this would eliminate the fuss about banning, unless someone starts doing something stupid at the dam, which i dont see happening. eliminates the fuss about minors. generally makes your life easier fill.

the mor eyou try to control the meet the more stress youll have. period. you always complain about how much stress there is. i only see two options to relieve that stress, let someone else take over DGRR or stop trying to control it so much. just an idea to help you out. nothing bad intended towards you.

 

Thanks but there were other cars that were or could have been faster. Wish I could have driven them. And there were plenty of other very good drivers up there. A few of them chose not to drive fast.

 

I think whoever decides to make up a group should claim some responsibility if there is an accident and more than likely none will (I think responsibility should stop with meals, dam event, accomodations and that's it.... turn them loose). This is really getting complicated and the bottom line is that the least amount of cars on the dragon make up for a GREAT run. So the larger the group the worse the ride. Maybe split this **** into two per year....

 

You know what, all this talk is making my head hurt!

Jesus! its a simple request and simple rule I'm placing. If I were to ban all the law breaking things thats going on the dragon, no one will go. I think your point is valid at the sametime un-reasonable!

Again, Ban is to deter people.. Unfortunately those who are banned for next year is taking it personally.. If most people disagree with my banning and such, I'll make it even simpler and not waste my time and organize next event. ITs simple as that!

So, why don't we go from here..

I'll start a thread and you guys could vote if you want the banning or not.

Also this year, I didn't even ******* drive! So, I obviously didn't contribute to so called wreckless driving.. Jesus! I tried to do something good for the community and some of you complain and don't want to be responsible for your action.. ******* classic!

I'm closing this thread.. Vote!

 

hell if you are going to look @ drivers license, insurance cards, vehicle inspections then why not check their DMV record too (points).

 

I was responsible for my action. I said who I was didn't I?

 

Go vote here!

https://www.rx7club.com/deals-gap-rotary-rally-archive-262/vote-ban-not-ban-645922/

Enough talking..