Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

As some of you have been reading.. I need to know if we should ban those who wreck at the Dragon or NOT!

Lets also not get into huge debate over this..

You could read it here: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...wpost&t=645556

If by end of May decision will be made regarding to this..

PHIL

banzaitoyota

Whats to stop them from joining us on the public road?

IIRC the miata wasn't a paid participant this year, didn't participate in any activities except to show up for the drive

RoughRex

A. I think a one year ban is a suitable punishment should you decide that a punishment needs to be given.

B. I don't personally think it's necessary. Wrecking your ride on a road like that is enough punishment 99% of the time.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Let me clearify this!

They are banned from the event! I have NO RIGHTS to ban people from being on the public road! If they want to come out to the Gap the same weekend, thats their decision! But they must understand they are NOT part of the EVENT nor invited to the area where the event is taking place (private or rented area)!

djmtsu

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, the Miata blew it trying to keep up with the FD's. That's his fault.

Chris (DarknightFC) was called out on the other thread, even though what happened in '06 wasn't his fault, AND IT WAS LAST YEAR. I don't think the ban would, or should apply to him, or that particular circumstance.

Unavoidable accidents happen every day, put clearly reckless accidents on the part of an overzealous/inexperienced driver should be punished.

Why do you think I WANT to be at the end of the pack every time? I don't want some idiot driver riding my *** and potentially destroying my car. I even make every effort to stay well behind the car in front of me.

I can't count how many *** riding butt puppets were there this year, it was crazy.

G's 3rd Gen

iTrader: (11)

I think after a review of the police reports/ witness statements a decision should arise. Careless/ wreckless driving yes. Mechanical failure other than blatent neglect or obvious poor maintenane no.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Now who's going to do this?? as stated on other thread, Case by case is bit much for me...
but if its obvious and several witnesses say its mechanical, then I'll say NO!

superfastrx7

it's not as easy as a yes or no poll. If an accident occurs then you should conduct an investigation, interview all involved parties, look over the vehicles then determine if they should be banned from a public road or not.

Since it is a yes or no poll... I will vote no because I would have to know all the facts before I get on someones and ban them from the event.

Turbo II

iTrader: (1)

Police report does no good. Joey got off pretty clean with them. He said he lost traction. Why I have no idea but I could speculate like everyone else, maybe better since I was in the group he was trying to run with.

I agree that Chris shouldn't be banned. Joey, I don't want to see him banned but...

And it's not like we're going to have 50 police reports to look at next year so who cares. Like I said they let him off so to speak.

Noxlupus

Phil, someone could be delegated this unglamorous job.

Moejoe

iTrader: (1)

What is it that is so hard to deal with for reality?

First: if someone is riding your ***, create the safe distance or let them pass. If I allow you those avenues to proceed and you still are an ***; when we get to where we are going, you are getting confronted. Here are the facts; we all bust our asses to have our cars the way we want them. The last thing we want is someone messing up what we have worked so hard for. If you can't interact with a group accordingly, you need to learn to, or not be there(I'm not saying that is the case with this weekends wreck). Sometimes people just don't know and being told will fix it. I don't think we should be shy about correcting someone appropriately.

Second: Don't over drive your car. This is not a track. If you drive at 100% on the track, try 85% on the public road. Deals Gap is not a closed course. Test your car and you before you get to the meet. Know the limits of both of you. No matter what we do for preparation, the other drivers on the road could ruin your day. Don't be the guy to ruin someones else's day and yours.

I ran the Dragon 10 -12 times this weekend. I wanted to learn it. And it was a lot of fun(and expensive in gas). I did early morning runs both days. This was my time to take more time to learn the car, a corner, or try a different gear through an area. I had someone ask where to learn how to drive and if there are schools. He was young and looking for the experience. I thought it was one of the best questions someone could ask. Let's take the time to be in the right, for everyone.

Phil, this is your event. Thank you for inviting us. You post the rules, and that's what we'll go by. Sorry for ranting.

superfastrx7

There was this 3rd gen RX7 that nailed the brakes to get his picture taken.... that is too wreckless driving (it was a navy blue car). should we ban him too? I don't think so but I'll let you all decide.

1stgenNutt

iTrader: (3)

Maybe we should make those that do stupied stuff pay the club a fine....I think this is really up to the main man do you all.... :smiley_12

skrewloose78

the person that was in the wreck would do this. if they are involved in a wreck you will automatically ban them, in order to lift the ban from the event they will get the police report,copy it, and send you a copy to prove they were not at fault

i agree here. i do think we need to restrict bad drivers from being at the event but if someone hits my car and it isnt my fault then i dont want to be banned.

anewconvert

iTrader: (1)

this is ridiculous.

Accidents are accidents. There is NO need for punishment.


If you are being tailgated, MOVE. If you dont want to go the speed that others want to go, MOVE.

I had many points this weekend when someone was really close to me. I had to trust that they were paying attention to me. One person who has already posted in this thread nearly rear ended me. Didnt even have to say a word about it.

I VOLUNTARILY brought myself to a place where I KNEW people would be driving hard. I MADE that choice without being forced into it. If I didnt already accept the fact that I might get hit, or lose control, then I shouldnt be there. As such, if someone rear-ends me its THEIR fault. If I lose control its MY fault. I neither case is it ANY business of yours, or anyone else on this forum, as to what happened.


Stick to organizing the event, not being the nanny of the event.

If you are scared of getting your car ruined dont drive the dragon. If you cant accept that possibility dont come, or just stay off the road. There are PLENTY of other roads in the area with a LOT less people. Go there.


BC

hus

Hmm...I'm back and forth on this. Phil, I consider you a good friend...I mean hell, who lets just anybody borrow their Power FC because theirs is on backorder? I've been to your house, we've attended a few RX-7 shows together, the Gap twice, call each other on the phone and so on. But what happens to that friendship if I get into an accident on the Dragon and get banned?

I mean by now you know the kind of work I do (especially after Outback in Chatt. ) and I live by STRICT rules and you just have to take the punches and roll with them, friends or not...but if you had to come to me and tell me that I'm banned or Chris, Stephen, John, Jeremy, Leo or Kevin is banned because one of us might have slipped up and got into an accident, what happens to those friendships? I mean I would like to say that I'm man enough to own up to my responsibility for wrecking (and I would) but then if I got banned, especially by a friend...well, you know how you hold grudges? I do to. And I don't think either of us would know how we're going to act until that time comes...if it ever comes.

I value our friendship greatly and I like the fact that I'm getting to know Chris, Stephen and John more and more, and hope that I can hang with you guys in B'ham a lot more this year, but does all that stop when/if I have an "accident" on the Dragon? Just wondering how to deal with that. You've helped me tremendously and I hope this post doesn't change things but I'm unsure about the ban.

Maybe those who wreck and attend the next year need to be lead by you or the Group, Group Leader and set the pace so that no one (previous wreckers) can get overly excited on the Dragon? I don't know what the answer is but if a ban is what you decide then I'll stand beside you on it.

Brad

P.S.- I would like to add that I refering to an "Everthing Goes" type ban. I don't think DarknightFC should be after hearing from witnesses and such. I think that was an all out "accident". But the Miata guy was technically not apart of the event anyway so I say YES to banning him but I don't think that does any good since he wasn't obeying the rules to begin with. Just a thought.

Turbo II

iTrader: (1)

You talking about me?!?!?!?

Now I know you're talking about me!!!

Can I still be your wingman even though I'm dangerous?

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

I'm working on other solution to this..

New resolution to this will surface in due time. But I will like to see the result of this poll! So, Keep up the vote!

anewconvert

iTrader: (1)

yeah. You should ban someone who wasnt even part of the grtoup. He didnt participate in the car show/line up, was at the front end of the procession through the gap, and at the tail end of group one.


While you are banning someone who wasnt even involved in the group you should ban the biker who flew of the mountain that same day. And the semi-truck driver who caused a cruiser to wipe out and then drove off. They shouldnt be apart of an event they werent even a part of to begin with. Because banning them will teach them a lesson.....


Wasnt obeying what rules? It was a public road. The ENTIRE GROUP wasnt obeying the rules. THEY WERE ALL DRIVING RECKLESSLY and yet you are going to single out him out because he lost control. Its bullshit. For some reason it doesnt matter that the group SAID IT WAS OK with them if he came along. if he was banned but felt like pulling out of the lot and tagging along he could have done so and no one could have stopped him. What would this arbitrary ban have done to stop anything?!?

BC

anewconvert

iTrader: (1)

Greg, I trust you to drive as close to me as you feel comfortable driving. I will happily drive in front of you anytime. I didnt even think twice about you having to come to a hard stop behind me. Or jon nearly rearending me when that Forest ranger pulled out in front of me.

I knew the risks before I got in my car, and thats my point. This 'banning' bullshit will do nothing.

So to answer your question: I prefer that you be trailing close to me at 100mph instead of an average driver being behind me going slower than I am.


BC

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Never drove the Gap but in a couple of posts, people say if someone is riding your ***, move over and let them by. Is there safe areas to do this without immediately moving to the back of the line since the minute you move over, more than likely the next few cars in line are going to keep following the car you let by?
Sounds more like machoism (and we are all guilty of it at some point in time) of keeping up with the guy in front to prove my car and I can do it, regardless if you really can. After the first leg of the first drive I did in the N Ga mountains, at the first rest stop, I just proceeded to move further to the rear with the slower cars since I didn't want to hold up anyone nor be involved with some idiot trying to keep up with a faster car. Brings to mind my last track day at Road Atlanta. A supercharged Mustang GT was trying his best to keep up with my and as I came into turn 10A, I looked back to see him coming into hot and getting loose. I knew that idiot was basically trying to race with me. I did let him by on the front straight. I just don't know if you have the room at the Gap to point them by safely and not end up at the back of the line.
How about a warning via a PM asking the individual to take it easy at the next event, i.e. a warning but not in public, but if they don't take the advice and blow it again by being a dick, then do a ban.
Do the people that get into group 1 think it is for more of a risk taking, higher speed type run? If so, the very nature of the group lends itself to more risk taking by the drivers as they try to keep up with the cars in front or behind. You might think you can drive fast at the Gap since your car made 360 rwhp, doesn't mean you can handle it in the curves and might need to drop the ego and also drop down a group or 2 to learn some too.

Tim

anewconvert

iTrader: (1)

MUCH more reasonable. Those who fucked up are already in for a tongue lashing from the holier than thou's of the forum.


As for pulling off: Yes there are safe areas to do it. You WILL get to the back of the pack, but if the leader is pushing you the reast of the group probably is too.


Its about personal responsibility. If you cant keep up safely, or you are getting pushed by the guy behind you and it makes you uncomfortable, move over.


BC

djmtsu

iTrader: (3)

Its not like I can't or am unable to push my FC, but I don't like ANYONE riding my ***, on the Gap, or on the local roads.

Its not hard to push it, and hang with the guy in front of you from a safe distance.

When I was following a friend, who's car is WAY slower than mine in the straights, but equal on the curves, I just held back, no biggie, who cares.

**And I am not in anyway placing any blame on DarknightFC for the '06 incident. He wasn't riding anyones ***. I think he is a great guy and am glad I got to meet him this year, we had fun at the 1016 yo!

gxl90rx7

iTrader: (1)

All im saying is its not a racetrack, it you are at teh point of wrecking whether it be mechanical or driver induced, you should really stay home for the sake of everyones safety (proviced you are the one causing the wreck and are not the victim)

now enforcing a ban, thats a whole different ballgame. You cant really force someone to not drive on a public road

hus

Boy you're a smart one. Your asshat friend wasn't obeying any of the guidlines for the whole damn event and then decided to try and be apart of it by jumping in on the group runs which is still part of the damn event! Yes it's a public road and yes not too many people were doing 30mph but how does that give this dude the right to join in on something he wasn't apart of.

Why do you people expect to not participate in any part of the event and not sign the waiver and yet think its ok to drive in the group rides? Just because it's a public road doesn't mean you're welcome to follow the fastest group and act like an ***...that my friend is BULLSHIT!

As far as banning him is concerned, yes he should be banned from ever trying to be apart of the "Event" assmunch! If he wants to try and kill himself for the next 10 DGRRs then like you said...it's a public road, so please by all means jump in on the fast group next year.

WE DON'T WANT THOSE WHO ARE NOT PARTICIPATING TO FOLLOW US THRU THE GAP! That's why he is being singled out!

Brad