From now on, anyone wanting to drive in group one must pass tech inspection. No more accidents!!!! I hope the guy in the miata made it home ok.
As always, the event was great fun and the drive was a blast. Big thanks to all those organizers, volunteers and sponsors.

Too bad there were so many slow Porsches out there .

 

Yeah.. Hope it worked for him. Happened just in front of us as we caught up to that group. I drove him down to the store to contact the police/ tow truck. Thank God he went left instead of right!! Very lucky not a scratch on him. G

 

I agree with it 100% for anyone wanting to run with us next year. I was thinking along those lines last night for everyone involved. A lot of the basic stuff done and gone over for an HPDE or Autocross event should be brought up during lunch with the other speeches.

 

what exactly happened there? from the aftermath, it just looks like the guy got a little loose coming out of that turn and hit the ditch.. i dont think a tech inspection could prevent that, htat was just driver error

 

That is what I was thinking, a tech inspection won't do anything for the driver. Also, people think they have a tech inspection and can go fast, then you open yourself up to bigger liabilites. This in not a track, but a public road. We need to tech inspect peoples brains.

Holly

 

And you gotta sign a waiver.

 

I'm not going to go into details to what I know.. But bottomline is, If you mess up up there, you will be BAN from future DGRR!

This is the second time where 1st group lead to an accident. Remember, EVERYONE is very lucky that no one got hurt! And you all need to remember the consequences before running the Gap!

 

After that comment I hope the first person has been banned also!

 

If I knew who the first person was, Yes, he is Banned!

Next year will be different from past 3 event in that I am going to enforce more strict rules! This include, NO MORE discounts to those who did NOT register and you must present your driver's license for registration verification.

And depend what we might do, I'm event considering setting an age limit!! If I continue to see that its caused by younger crowd, I will enforce this!

 

OHNOES! NOT ANOTHER WAIVER!!!!! Hah!!

No a tech inspection won't do any good for the driver but anyone wanting to run like we did in that group really should have the car checked or known to do so on their own as if it were an HPDE. I'd feel better knowing someone didn't have a car with problems running like we did.

Yes it's a public road but some people (raises hand) will still drive like it is a track at times, bikers and cars included because of what it is. Not everyone can spend 500 bucks on a helmet and then 300 bucks or more for an HPDE a few times a year. I wish they would and think they should if they want to drive like that. There is no substitute for instruction and seat time on a track.

I really think next year people need to be told during all the other speeches before lunch what can and will happen to the car when tires heat up, brakes fade, that the battery needs to be secure, your floormat should be removed along with any other loose items and who knows what else from just driving the Dragon much less pushing it as some of us will and do.

Phil, I hate it happened again but we went over the "rules" for that run before we left and you had people go over everything else at the dam. I agree, everyone should be aware about the consequences and a ban if they mess up.

 

I'm the wrecked Miata guy. For the record, the tech inspection wouldn't have mattered, my car has an excellent setup that I would put up against any car that I saw that weekend. I've been driving sports cars for 12 years, had track days, autocrosses, driving instructors, but sometimes **** happens. I don't know anyone (ANYONE) who I consider to be a good performance driver who has never had a wreck, and this was my first. You learn from your experience and move on. FWIW, the only other people who investigated the scene (two state troopers) did not consider it to be recklessness or speeding, and did not find me to be at fault.

The car recieved pretty minor damage. It only really needs a lower control arm to be drivable again. If there had been a Miata in a local junkyard, I could have driven it home.


And G's, if I ever meet you again, I'm buying dinner.

 

im sorry but banning him is rediculous. if that were to be an option, then what is the point of the waiver?? i mean you already have it so youre not liable for anyone. now you want to not be liable but also be able to tell them they cant come anymore? i thinks that BS.

just as the guy says, **** happens. you want to get all mad at people driving dangerously. well if im not mistaken phil from everything ive seen people do at DGRR you drove the most dangerous. at DGRR 2006 while we were on the skyway run you were passing people. this is a very high speed version of the dragon and MUCH more dangerous than passing on the dragon. a wreck on the skyway is much more serious than one on the dragon.

im not trying to start anything, but you cant sit here and tell people they have to sign a waiver, if youre under 18 you cant come, and if you do something that YOU dont like then they cant come anymore. you act like you dont drive crazy when i have seen you do it and im pretty sure there was a video camera rolling that day also so im sure theres footage of it as well.

if you want to be fair, theres only one way to do so. tell everyone they have to obey all the states road regulations, that includes the speed limits. you know just as well as i do that wont happen.

 

PHIL,
Honestly I probably wouldn't worry about it since it is on the public road after the main drive through. You did everything in your power to keep it from happening. You had guest speakers, the leader of group one made sure and told them about not trying to keep up if they aren't able and told them about the accident last year. The only thing I think you should be upset about is that he was not registered at all and came and decided to run the gap with all the rotary's, etc.

 

Well this is turning out to be a very very sticky situation. I think that maybe ( I say maybe) B/C of how bad the accident COULD have been is grounds for banning someone. We were very lucky that the miata only hit a wall. what if it hit someone else. The day of the accident there was a jeep wrangler filed with two teenage girls up front and three young girls in the back, they were joy riding looking at all the nice cars and waving at everyone. what if he hit them. I know **** happens Joey but wow, it could have been very very bad. I dont want the mazda group to have a bad rep. But to be fair if Joey is banned it should be looked into and last years driver should also be banned, I think I heard Mike say who it was at the barbeque place on fri night not sure. Like I said very very sticky.

 

I am very firm on this decision. Again, I'm not going to argue regarding this decision. If you wreck on the dragon, you are out.

aws140, Nice using me as your example. But think about what you've said and what I'm asking. I'm sure others have broken few laws on the dragon and I am not saying they can not attend. Again, If Anyone gets in a wreck, you are OUT! Its simple as that!
Why you ask and why I'm being "rediculous"? Because people need to realize the consequences! Not only you will be financially responsible for wrecking your car and possibly harming others around you, You are also going to be banned. I'm saying this not just to punish JKM, but to hopefully avoid people from making bigger mistakes in the future.

People need to understand I can't control what they do, but one thing I can control is who attends this event.

If anyone disagree, its your choice to attend the event or goto the Dragon at your own time.

I'm hoping this will deter some of you from REALLY pushing the limit on your car! If some of you can not understand it, What can I say?

 

Yes I realize that we do not want to give the Mazda Group / DGRR a bad reputation. I agree with that 100%. I also think that we should take it case by case. Yes it could have been worst, but it wasn't. Was this incident a driver error, mechanical issue, etc? The investigating officer stated it wasn't driver error, therefore who are we to then say it's his fault and ban him? Had it been a driver error, then yes ban him!!!

If we are going to ban him for mechanical issue or issues out of his control, then we should ban everyone who had mechanical issue even if it did not happen on the dragon... cause quite frankly it could have and it would have been worst. Could you imagine if someone’s break were inadequate and their breaks faded with no way of stopping while on the dragon? What if that coolant hose on the Repu had busted while driving down the dragon and spilled coolant all over the road? We should ban him from coming back cause that could have been disastrous! Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it? That’s my point.

(Disclaimer: I have nothing against the Repu, I do not believe he should be baned. Just wanted to prove a point. No disrespect toward anyone especially those mentioned in this post.)

 

Yes, the other guy is banned also..

Don't get me wrong about this.. I'm being a hardass for a reason. Do you guys thing I like to argue and be stressed out at the event?? I don't think anyone of you would like being in my position...

I will say this, So that we are in some agreement. I've also heard from couple of people this year who told me that they spun out and they realized how danagerous the Gap was. Luckily, no damage was done and no police was involve. He came up to me and said he's going to be more careful this year...

I'm going to use what he said and hoping JKM and the other guy learned their lesson. For that, From this point on, whoever wreck on the gap, you will NOT be able to attend the following year DGRR. But you are able to come back year after. Both of you even including the young kid last year will not be able to attend until DGRR 2009... If I continue to do so. I believe this is reasonable and hope doesn't lead to endless debate. 1 year, you are banned!

Also, JKM, I would greatly appreciate it, if you were to attend this event, Please be part of the event from the beginning to the end.

Everyone also need to realize, this event is a working progress as its getting bigger! Hence, any rules that are being set and anyone who refuses to abide to it, its your choice to attend or not. I think its a pretty simple solution vs. arguing about it and waste time.

 

You do bring up a good point.. But as an organizer of this event, Its nearly impossible for me to investigate case by case. I don't even have time to go out to the dragon!

The reason I was extremely pissed about was because I've heard that JKM did not attend the earlier gathering at the dam and he just decided to join the fastest group.. But bigger issues for me is the fact that the police was looking for him. That makes me worry and doesn't make us look good... especially after we tried SO hard to get Blunt county officers to come out and give us a talk about the danger on the Gap. So, JKM ignoring the talk and getting in an accident in my mind, made us look bad.

Again, My 1 year ban should be reasonable. And please, everyone must attend the main gathering! What I'll do next year is I'm going to collect all the raffle tickets right after the talk. That way I know who was there to listen and who decided to ignore.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by herblenny

I'm going to use what he said and hoping JKM and the other guy learned their lesson. For that, From this point on, whoever wreck on the gap, you will NOT be able to attend the following year DGRR. But you are able to come back year after. Both of you even including the young kid last year will not be able to attend until DGRR 2009... If I continue to do so. I believe this is reasonable and hope doesn't lead to endless debate. 1 year, you are banned!

Having this stated up front (and if it was, please disregard my previous post) then yes I say if they wreck, they are banned. I also believe this is fair. However, I also believe it should be case by case; i.e. driver error or mechanical problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by herblenny

Everyone also need to realize, this event is a working progress as its getting bigger! Hence, any rules that are being set and anyone who refuses to abide to it, its your choice to attend or not. I think its a pretty simple solution vs. arguing about it and waste time.

Have each person in attendance sign a waiver/contract; by which if they breach it in anyway, then you have grounds to ban and none of us can even argue with it. It’s in writing and by signing it the person had agree to abide by said rules.

Edit: I realize that it's quite the endeavor to host the event and also understand your point about not having the time to take it case by case. Having said that, having a contract by each person signed would remove the need to have a case by case. They break the rule, they breach the contract and they are ban... Banning for a year is a fair "punishment".

 

I've talked about this with my good friend SPOautos.. Next year will be different in many ways and this is one.

I also agree case by case bases.. But I personally can't spend hours investigating to come to that conclusion. But If its obvious its mechanical and no one gets hurt, yes, I will not ban that person.. But if its Obvious that person ignored the speeches made by the Group leaders or decides to not attend the talk given by Killboy, Rob, and Blunt Co. officers. Yes, they will be banned.

I have emphasized about mechanical issues in the past but we all have different level of understanding of rotary cars.. Next year, I'm going to ask some of the more knowledgeable rotorheads to inspect some cars before we do the Dragon runs. If some think that certain car shouldn't not go, I will have to ask them to not do the runs.

Everyone needs to remember, its not just your life involved in this.. its also others around you.

 

So, Is everyone pretty clear what I'm asking in the future??

Do we agree that its a reasonable request I'm making??

1 year banned if you wreck. When you come back and you are in another wreck (doesn't matter how many years you attend), YOU are BANNED for life.

 

I and I'm sure all of us will and do agree with this.

Keep up the great job!!! Despite us disagreeing on a few points we are all completely appreciative that you take the time and the trouble to make this event possible!!!

 

Agree.

 

i agree with the ban.. i do not want to be up there driving with someone who has a history of wrecking, whether due to driver error or mechanical problems, it doesnt matter to me! If they cannot control their car or know its limits, they should not attend for the sake of everyone else

 

I agree. There is just too much for one man to be able to control or have to concern himself with. Listen, if you're RX-7 isn't "up to par" for a full day at the track or you hope that it makes it there and back, you shouldn't be driving the Gap and attending this event. I could give 2 craps about you crashing your car and killing yourself; But as soon as your POS (mechanically speaking) or driving endangers others, primarily my wifes or my friends, that's where you've stepped over a line that can't be allowed.

Please mantain an honest assesment to your vehicles condition. It also doesn't do any good to over-estimate you own personal talents. You're not in a race and no one cares how fast you are. Do everyone a favor and have fun and KEEP IT SAFE!