Legally sanctioned racing section?
im assuming youve never raced anybody on the street, you will never know the adrenaline rush you get.. its like no other, and this is comming from me, a guy thats got lots of trophys from track racing...im going to enlighten you on why we need the streetracing in the kill section ,watch any of directfreak's kill videos.. nuff said
If you want to kill the kill's section do not use the excuse that street racing is illegal. If thats the case then this whole site should be shut down becuase in alot of places modifying a car in any shape or form is illegal to.
Why do people buy sport's cars?
What is the purpose of a sport's car..IceMark you know this one..
So basically we keep it at the track for now on?
Fare enough but everyone of us here will speed or drive unsafe in the next week or two...soo?
Why do people buy sport's cars?
What is the purpose of a sport's car..IceMark you know this one..
So basically we keep it at the track for now on?
Fare enough but everyone of us here will speed or drive unsafe in the next week or two...soo?
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,666
Likes: 2
From: chatsworth,Ca.
ive done some road race but mainly serious competition in drag racing.. believe me if you make a mistake dragracing you can not only roll 3 times or more but smashing into the wall or the other driver is a possibility..
still streetracing is the ultimate, period
add a high dollar money street race to the equasion, my palms start to sweat thinking about those nights.......
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,666
Likes: 2
From: chatsworth,Ca.
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,666
Likes: 2
From: chatsworth,Ca.
then why did you get rid of the "illegal streetracing section"?
im assuming because its illegal....
so technicly any section where you modify the car in any way should be removed too since it illegal to modify your car in any way
ive done some road race but mainly serious competition in drag racing.. believe me if you make a mistake dragracing you can not only roll 3 times or more but smashing into the wall or the other driver is a possibility..
still streetracing is the ultimate, period
add a high dollar money street race to the equasion, my palms start to sweat thinking about those nights.......
still streetracing is the ultimate, period
add a high dollar money street race to the equasion, my palms start to sweat thinking about those nights.......
Drag racing is all about making quick decisions. As much as I think drag racing requires skill and has it's place in the motorsports world, using the brake pedal with less than an inch of space on either side of you bcause two other people are fighting for position and you have to outbrake them into a corner to keep your place gives me more adrenaline than being thrown back in my seat with the gas pedal. The fact that in road racing, there are more situations where everything is not under my control gives me my adrenaline when having to fight to get ahead. Road racing is about keeping your cool while being hammered with decisions every second for anywhere from 30 minutes to 4 hours at a time. You don't get breaks every 10 seconds.
In drag racing, if both racers don't majorly screw up, everyone's safe. There's no guarantee of that in road racing. Minor movements can lead to spin into a tree, lake, guardrail or off a cliff. I'm sure concrete barriers hurt, but at least you never have to worry about rolling over and dropping a good amount.
The biggest reason why I like road racing? Running down 400 hp cars in a small 200 hp coupe. Money doesn't matter as much in road racing if you don't have the driver mod. The same can be said of drag racing, but of a much lesser extent.
0-140 sounds in under 10 sounds fun, but 140-20-140 while trying to get by a guy inches front of me in under 20 sounds better to me. For me, I like races that are measured in minutes or hours, not seconds, but I do study drag racing techniques just to get me out of the hole faster at the start of a race. Anything to get positions easier works in my book.
Once again, just because multiple sections are illegal, doesn't mean we have to get rid all of them. Just the ones that we feel add little value to the forum. I don't recall seeing a notice where I have to be consistent in my enforcement.
Last edited by Roen; Apr 4, 2008 at 02:16 PM.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,720
Likes: 1
From: Greenwood/Hartsville, SC.
So here are the reasons for us.
1. The majority of the members on the board wish to keep it as it was.
ROEN: This I have not seen proof of
2. It was entertaining. There are a lot of great kill stories and then there are a lot of great kill "stories".
ROEN: The ratio of entertaining to garbage was so small after going through the whole section. Really, the only epic story that I remember was the epic thread that wouldn't die, but that was Lounge material and not Kill material. So, no, I would not agree with your point that there were lots of great kill stories there. A few perhaps.
Even so, the removal of the section lets us cut down on the amount of crap threads present. So if we remove 97 crap threads, and 3 entertaining ones, to me that's acceptable loss. We can always find entertainment elsewhere on the forum.
There's always the Lounge.
3. It provided a benchmark for where our cars, with certain setups, stood up against other cars with their setups. And I'm not talking about "will my car beat this car?" By posting kill stories, you know for a fact who won and why.
ROEN: Ignoring the amount of bias prevalent in any kill story, you'd do just as well to post up any benchmark questions in sections such as Rotary Performance or Race Car Tech. If you have an LS1, there's always OEC.
4. It was a source of guidance for the younger kids who might have the "boy racer" mentality of running through stoplights, drifting around traffic, and generally making bad decisions while on the road. When a kid posts such a stupid story, they're typically admonished immediately after. Admonishment coming from one's peers is taken into greater consideration than the same admonishment coming from an authoritative figure.
ROEN: While I do applaud the ones who do give guidance, admonishment is not limited to the Kills section. We've seen members post stupid threads and been verbally lashed for it elsewhere. If this section goes away, those seeking that attention will most likely post elsewhere on the forum and still be admonished by their peers.
5. More work for the mods since now they'll have to peruse through every post that's made there.
ROEN: They've always had to before, regardless. Now we're just more active about it, since there's new help.
6. There's a solution to make both the mods and the members happy.
ROEN: I personally didn't like the disclaimer idea, as it seems we're saying one thing, but doing another. I mean, we're doing it now to some degree, so I'd rather be done with it and delete the entire section. If you have another one, I'll gladly entertain it.
1. The majority of the members on the board wish to keep it as it was.
ROEN: This I have not seen proof of
2. It was entertaining. There are a lot of great kill stories and then there are a lot of great kill "stories".
ROEN: The ratio of entertaining to garbage was so small after going through the whole section. Really, the only epic story that I remember was the epic thread that wouldn't die, but that was Lounge material and not Kill material. So, no, I would not agree with your point that there were lots of great kill stories there. A few perhaps.
Even so, the removal of the section lets us cut down on the amount of crap threads present. So if we remove 97 crap threads, and 3 entertaining ones, to me that's acceptable loss. We can always find entertainment elsewhere on the forum.
There's always the Lounge.
3. It provided a benchmark for where our cars, with certain setups, stood up against other cars with their setups. And I'm not talking about "will my car beat this car?" By posting kill stories, you know for a fact who won and why.
ROEN: Ignoring the amount of bias prevalent in any kill story, you'd do just as well to post up any benchmark questions in sections such as Rotary Performance or Race Car Tech. If you have an LS1, there's always OEC.
4. It was a source of guidance for the younger kids who might have the "boy racer" mentality of running through stoplights, drifting around traffic, and generally making bad decisions while on the road. When a kid posts such a stupid story, they're typically admonished immediately after. Admonishment coming from one's peers is taken into greater consideration than the same admonishment coming from an authoritative figure.
ROEN: While I do applaud the ones who do give guidance, admonishment is not limited to the Kills section. We've seen members post stupid threads and been verbally lashed for it elsewhere. If this section goes away, those seeking that attention will most likely post elsewhere on the forum and still be admonished by their peers.
5. More work for the mods since now they'll have to peruse through every post that's made there.
ROEN: They've always had to before, regardless. Now we're just more active about it, since there's new help.
6. There's a solution to make both the mods and the members happy.
ROEN: I personally didn't like the disclaimer idea, as it seems we're saying one thing, but doing another. I mean, we're doing it now to some degree, so I'd rather be done with it and delete the entire section. If you have another one, I'll gladly entertain it.
2. That's all subjective. Your perception of that section isn't the bottom line to what is and is not entertaining to the rest of the board. Obviously many other people do not share your opinion since there were a lot of threads with a lot of replies.
3. So you're saying that there would only be bias in the racing section, that you don't get bias, such as the "Rotaries own the world" or "Supra's own the galaxy" mentality, in other sections? When someone states their opinion on whether or not one car is faster than another, first hand experience helps bolster that opinion's validity. By posting a kill story you not only provide entertainment for others, you also confirm your position by providing details which can prove or disprove your opinion.
4. Sure, you can get flamed in other sections of the board, but racing stories aren't allowed in other sections of the board. Admonishment for those actions specifically related to street racing will no longer exist because people won't have the ability to post the stupid stories about street racing to begin with.
5. Before you were able to read a thread title, and maybe the first post, to generally get the drift of which way a thread was headed. Now you'll have to read through an entire thread to make sure street racing doesn't come up later on. You've added to the amount of content that is not allowed, thereby increasing your workload.
6. The image of the board is what you're apparently worried about. You say by not allowing stories on street racing, the board retains a good image by not condoning illegal activity. Yet you won't equally go after other sections of the board where illegal activity is much more pervasive. You further say that what you really don't like about that section is that you think it's "stupid". That hypocrisy and pettiness kills the board's good image that you say you care about.
1. The Poll shows that there are more members wanting to keep it the way it was than keep it how it is now. That's a much more direct approach than having every one of those people post "+1" to something we've said in the defense of the kills section.
2. That's all subjective. Your perception of that section isn't the bottom line to what is and is not entertaining to the rest of the board. Obviously many other people do not share your opinion since there were a lot of threads with a lot of replies.
3. So you're saying that there would only be bias in the racing section, that you don't get bias, such as the "Rotaries own the world" or "Supra's own the galaxy" mentality, in other sections? When someone states their opinion on whether or not one car is faster than another, first hand experience helps bolster that opinion's validity. By posting a kill story you not only provide entertainment for others, you also confirm your position by providing details which can prove or disprove your opinion.
4. Sure, you can get flamed in other sections of the board, but racing stories aren't allowed in other sections of the board. Admonishment for those actions specifically related to street racing will no longer exist because people won't have the ability to post the stupid stories about street racing to begin with.
5. Before you were able to read a thread title, and maybe the first post, to generally get the drift of which way a thread was headed. Now you'll have to read through an entire thread to make sure street racing doesn't come up later on. You've added to the amount of content that is not allowed, thereby increasing your workload.
6. The image of the board is what you're apparently worried about. You say by not allowing stories on street racing, the board retains a good image by not condoning illegal activity. Yet you won't equally go after other sections of the board where illegal activity is much more pervasive. You further say that what you really don't like about that section is that you think it's "stupid". That hypocrisy and pettiness kills the board's good image that you say you care about.
2. That's all subjective. Your perception of that section isn't the bottom line to what is and is not entertaining to the rest of the board. Obviously many other people do not share your opinion since there were a lot of threads with a lot of replies.
3. So you're saying that there would only be bias in the racing section, that you don't get bias, such as the "Rotaries own the world" or "Supra's own the galaxy" mentality, in other sections? When someone states their opinion on whether or not one car is faster than another, first hand experience helps bolster that opinion's validity. By posting a kill story you not only provide entertainment for others, you also confirm your position by providing details which can prove or disprove your opinion.
4. Sure, you can get flamed in other sections of the board, but racing stories aren't allowed in other sections of the board. Admonishment for those actions specifically related to street racing will no longer exist because people won't have the ability to post the stupid stories about street racing to begin with.
5. Before you were able to read a thread title, and maybe the first post, to generally get the drift of which way a thread was headed. Now you'll have to read through an entire thread to make sure street racing doesn't come up later on. You've added to the amount of content that is not allowed, thereby increasing your workload.
6. The image of the board is what you're apparently worried about. You say by not allowing stories on street racing, the board retains a good image by not condoning illegal activity. Yet you won't equally go after other sections of the board where illegal activity is much more pervasive. You further say that what you really don't like about that section is that you think it's "stupid". That hypocrisy and pettiness kills the board's good image that you say you care about.
I want to see some effort being made to save the section, not just the same 4 or 5 people, but enough people to convince me that we'd be doing the majority a disservice by eliminating the section. While I've seen some spirited opinions, I haven't seen enough. Spread the word, but make sure they understand that they have to present a valid argument that Mods will agree with, or at least feel that it is somewhat compelling otherwise, they will be ignored.
2. I think after sifting through each thread, the mods' perception of the section is much more accurate than the normal user.
3. Of course there's general inherent bias, we're on the 7club! By bias, I was referring to the fact that you'll post a lot more wins than losses on the kills section, especially if the loss was given to you by a car with a worse reputation.
4. Most of the members that visit the kill section don't need admonishment. The ones that do post the stupid story, also post these idiotic threads elsewhere. If the kills section is removed, more likely than not, they will randomly post their story elsewhere, leading to the same amount of admonishment, in addition to infuriating the moderation of the board. Win win in my book.
5. Mods always have had to go through the entire thread to check for posts that are in violation. Nothing's changed on that respect, except the criteria for said violations. We're just moving and closing more threads because of a change in the rules, but with any moderation change, that's to be expected.
6. At first glance, the image has improved, without a kills section. The only section that had a blatantly illegal title was the kills section. Rotary Performance? nah. Race Car Tech? nah. Kills Section? yep.
The general populace doesn't care about this issue enough to come in and research every last detail to perceive this hypocrisy as you so call it. The image of the board hasn't improved or been made worse to most on this board, except for the few that voice their opinion on it.
He who smokes bitches
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,452
Likes: 0
From: El Dorado County
I think the best solution to this is:
-Make some sort of DoO like restrictions, if you've been a member for x years/months and have x amount of posts, you can see the kills section.
-Make a disclaimer at the top that reads "Rx7 club does not condone the act of street racing, enter at your own risk".
-Enjoy
That's my input. I'm not sure what the whole purpose of changing the rules of the kills section were, if it's already been posted, sorry I missed it.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,720
Likes: 1
From: Greenwood/Hartsville, SC.
1. Poll yes, but they don't seem to care enough to post a valid defense besides, we like the section.
I want to see some effort being made to save the section, not just the same 4 or 5 people, but enough people to convince me that we'd be doing the majority a disservice by eliminating the section. While I've seen some spirited opinions, I haven't seen enough. Spread the word, but make sure they understand that they have to present a valid argument that Mods will agree with, or at least feel that it is somewhat compelling otherwise, they will be ignored.
2. I think after sifting through each thread, the mods' perception of the section is much more accurate than the normal user.
3. Of course there's general inherent bias, we're on the 7club! By bias, I was referring to the fact that you'll post a lot more wins than losses on the kills section, especially if the loss was given to you by a car with a worse reputation.
4. Most of the members that visit the kill section don't need admonishment. The ones that do post the stupid story, also post these idiotic threads elsewhere. If the kills section is removed, more likely than not, they will randomly post their story elsewhere, leading to the same amount of admonishment, in addition to infuriating the moderation of the board. Win win in my book.
5. Mods always have had to go through the entire thread to check for posts that are in violation. Nothing's changed on that respect, except the criteria for said violations. We're just moving and closing more threads because of a change in the rules, but with any moderation change, that's to be expected.
6. At first glance, the image has improved, without a kills section. The only section that had a blatantly illegal title was the kills section. Rotary Performance? nah. Race Car Tech? nah. Kills Section? yep.
The general populace doesn't care about this issue enough to come in and research every last detail to perceive this hypocrisy as you so call it. The image of the board hasn't improved or been made worse to most on this board, except for the few that voice their opinion on it.
I want to see some effort being made to save the section, not just the same 4 or 5 people, but enough people to convince me that we'd be doing the majority a disservice by eliminating the section. While I've seen some spirited opinions, I haven't seen enough. Spread the word, but make sure they understand that they have to present a valid argument that Mods will agree with, or at least feel that it is somewhat compelling otherwise, they will be ignored.
2. I think after sifting through each thread, the mods' perception of the section is much more accurate than the normal user.
3. Of course there's general inherent bias, we're on the 7club! By bias, I was referring to the fact that you'll post a lot more wins than losses on the kills section, especially if the loss was given to you by a car with a worse reputation.
4. Most of the members that visit the kill section don't need admonishment. The ones that do post the stupid story, also post these idiotic threads elsewhere. If the kills section is removed, more likely than not, they will randomly post their story elsewhere, leading to the same amount of admonishment, in addition to infuriating the moderation of the board. Win win in my book.
5. Mods always have had to go through the entire thread to check for posts that are in violation. Nothing's changed on that respect, except the criteria for said violations. We're just moving and closing more threads because of a change in the rules, but with any moderation change, that's to be expected.
6. At first glance, the image has improved, without a kills section. The only section that had a blatantly illegal title was the kills section. Rotary Performance? nah. Race Car Tech? nah. Kills Section? yep.
The general populace doesn't care about this issue enough to come in and research every last detail to perceive this hypocrisy as you so call it. The image of the board hasn't improved or been made worse to most on this board, except for the few that voice their opinion on it.
2. It doesn't matter what YOUR perception of the section is, it's still not the same as mine. What you find boring, I might find entertaining.
3. That still sets a benchmark for cars that you can beat. I never said that the kills section was an absolute way of determining what car is faster, but it does provide itself as an additional resource.
4. I have never seen a kill story posted anywhere other than the kills section. Even if there are a few in other sections, the great majority of them get posted in the kills section, which is where the admonishment for those characteristics happens.
5. You're trying to tell me that a mod has read through every post in that section? Be real.
6. At first glance, how did things look badly before? The section wasn't titled "Illegal Kills Section", it was simply "Kills Section". There was nothing there that implied illegal activity.
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 25,896
Likes: 24
From: Rohnert Park CA
The changes to the kills section basically nullify the whole point of its existence. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole reason the kills section existed is rooted in the very principle behind driving a fast car on the streets. Legal kills can reasonably be posted in the performance forums because it's a good place to put precise, measured results. rx7club is also a place where many people come to kill time and learn all kinds of things, from specific information about their cars to international news. The point of the forum is to support what the users want to use, and to do so for whatever they want to use it. Those saying the kills section should not exist are using reasons like "Street racing is illegal and dangerous" and "We don't want to read about it". The fact that the kills section exists does not mean anyone has to read it, and there is no way to show that its existence would ever increase casualties due to street racing.
While illegal street racing is not commendable, neither is getting drunk off your *** every weekend. Yet there are bars all over the country where people regularly get smashed and tell their stories the rest of the week. They tell their stories not only to their friends, but on myspace, facebook, online forums and the like. Removing a section called "Hammer time and hangovers" or changing it to "My weekend of moderate and wholly legal alcohol consumption" is akin to what is being done with the kills section. Changing the section will not change the fact that illegal and less than prudent behavior occurs, and readers will no longer be able to enjoy the hilarious stupidity nor will they be able to instruct posters in the error of their ways. There is much entertainment and learning to be had from such free discourse, and while to find those things it may require sifting through the less intelligible and totally ridiculous accounts, the fact that many users still choose to do so is an obvious indication that many people still believe it to be worthwhile.
For some people, getting drunk in public is fun, yet illegal. It carries risks to safety, property, and very often driver's licenses; yet when done properly all those risks are minimized. Street racing is fun, yet illegal. It carries risks to safety, property, and driver's licenses; yet when done properly all those risks are minimized. None of us are saying that street racing is a good thing, but we are saying it's preferable to be able to discuss it versus silence. When someone posts about getting drunk and taking dangerous drugs as a result of their lowered inhibitions there's a great opportunity to teach someone a lesson in safety. When a street race is performed in an extremely unsafe manner there's a great opportunity to teach someone a lesson in safety. When someone posts a funny anecdote about getting drunk on Main St we can all laugh about it. When someone posts a funny kill we can all laugh about it. When someone posts about getting drunk with Harrison Ford we can all envy their circumstances. When someone posts about competing with a Ford GT, LP640, 1000cc sport bike or the like; we can all envy their circumstances.
While illegal street racing is not commendable, neither is getting drunk off your *** every weekend. Yet there are bars all over the country where people regularly get smashed and tell their stories the rest of the week. They tell their stories not only to their friends, but on myspace, facebook, online forums and the like. Removing a section called "Hammer time and hangovers" or changing it to "My weekend of moderate and wholly legal alcohol consumption" is akin to what is being done with the kills section. Changing the section will not change the fact that illegal and less than prudent behavior occurs, and readers will no longer be able to enjoy the hilarious stupidity nor will they be able to instruct posters in the error of their ways. There is much entertainment and learning to be had from such free discourse, and while to find those things it may require sifting through the less intelligible and totally ridiculous accounts, the fact that many users still choose to do so is an obvious indication that many people still believe it to be worthwhile.
For some people, getting drunk in public is fun, yet illegal. It carries risks to safety, property, and very often driver's licenses; yet when done properly all those risks are minimized. Street racing is fun, yet illegal. It carries risks to safety, property, and driver's licenses; yet when done properly all those risks are minimized. None of us are saying that street racing is a good thing, but we are saying it's preferable to be able to discuss it versus silence. When someone posts about getting drunk and taking dangerous drugs as a result of their lowered inhibitions there's a great opportunity to teach someone a lesson in safety. When a street race is performed in an extremely unsafe manner there's a great opportunity to teach someone a lesson in safety. When someone posts a funny anecdote about getting drunk on Main St we can all laugh about it. When someone posts a funny kill we can all laugh about it. When someone posts about getting drunk with Harrison Ford we can all envy their circumstances. When someone posts about competing with a Ford GT, LP640, 1000cc sport bike or the like; we can all envy their circumstances.
But it is a good argument. Now convince me of a solution.
Not proven. The poll was only voted on by less than 1% of the members here. And there are allegations of tampering of the votes.
Yep, that seems to be biggest reason. How is it different now? It is less entertaining because it should be legal?
Not buying that one. The dyno sections cover benchmark set up, and since we established earlier that many of the stories were fictional, it is not a great referance anyway.
4. It was a source of guidance for the younger kids who might have the "boy racer" mentality of running through stoplights, drifting around traffic, and generally making bad decisions while on the road. When a kid posts such a stupid story, they're typically admonished immediately after. Admonishment coming from one's peers is taken into greater consideration than the same admonishment coming from an authoritative figure.
You have mentioned that before. Can you provide me with a link or two from the Kill's archive section to back that up?
Yep, that is a big downer and why several members are so happy about the change, that they stepped up and volunteered to moderate the section away from street racing.
I am sorry, what solution? If I change it back, I have unhappy members that think all street racing and people doing it should be arrested, plus, then there is the legal side, that says, if we have the section we must be promoting the activity.... If I keep it the way it is, I get to listen to you argue and complain about it.
Not seeing a solution yet... hoping to get there soon.
I find it very interesting that no other all model RX-7 boards have a Kill Section. Not NP, not RCC, not V8RX7F, not RX7C, not RC... in fact the only other RX-7 forum that I found with a Kills section was just for 2nd gen RX-7s (TFC3S). (and as a side personal note- not related to being an admin or moderator in any shape or form-, I have to Laugh my *** off at the members here that said they are jumping ship to RCC or hate it here and are going to RCC when they don't even have a Kills section- but that is just my personal laugh of the day)
Looking at a couple of others, I found that Bimmerforums is doing the same thing as we did here, Bimmerwerks has a Driving tales section, and Clublexus corvetteforums and M3 have no kills section at all. Hmmm no kills section at the vette or M3 forums...
You make solid point here. I live in California. If I get pulled over and they find my stock air box missing, I get a ticket. Let a lone a turbo swap, exhaust, Nitrous, etc.
I think the best solution to this is:
-Make some sort of DoO like restrictions, if you've been a member for x years/months and have x amount of posts, you can see the kills section.
-Make a disclaimer at the top that reads "Rx7 club does not condone the act of street racing, enter at your own risk".
-Enjoy
That's my input. I'm not sure what the whole purpose of changing the rules of the kills section were, if it's already been posted, sorry I missed it.
I think the best solution to this is:
-Make some sort of DoO like restrictions, if you've been a member for x years/months and have x amount of posts, you can see the kills section.
-Make a disclaimer at the top that reads "Rx7 club does not condone the act of street racing, enter at your own risk".
-Enjoy
That's my input. I'm not sure what the whole purpose of changing the rules of the kills section were, if it's already been posted, sorry I missed it.
they are not going to bring it back. IB wants to cover their rears since the site is now a corp, and told the mods to help. Mods being Mods, HAVE to co-operate with the board owners. end of story.
Of course a mod is going to come on here and say that isnt true, i have a mind of my own, this and that. but come on. its like the german solidiers of WWII, just following orders from the higher ups....
Of course a mod is going to come on here and say that isnt true, i have a mind of my own, this and that. but come on. its like the german solidiers of WWII, just following orders from the higher ups....
And i just see this as another form of prohibation. Taking away something the public has had for years to TRY and BETTER the society....
^--i still think those reasons are just facades for "we need to cover our butts"
^--i still think those reasons are just facades for "we need to cover our butts"
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 25,896
Likes: 24
From: Rohnert Park CA
they are not going to bring it back. IB wants to cover their rears since the site is now a corp, and told the mods to help. Mods being Mods, HAVE to co-operate with the board owners. end of story.
Of course a mod is going to come on here and say that isnt true, i have a mind of my own, this and that. but come on. its like the german solidiers of WWII, just following orders from the higher ups....
Of course a mod is going to come on here and say that isnt true, i have a mind of my own, this and that. but come on. its like the german solidiers of WWII, just following orders from the higher ups....
And Schindler worked for the ***** too.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,720
Likes: 1
From: Greenwood/Hartsville, SC.
There's no way you're going to get every member of the board, or even close to half of the board, to voice an opinion on this. Your side is in the minority. If you're asking for a majority voice in order to change it back, based on this discussion, you've already gotten it.
I am sorry, what solution? If I change it back, I have unhappy members that think all street racing and people doing it should be arrested, plus, then there is the legal side, that says, if we have the section we must be promoting the activity.... If I keep it the way it is, I get to listen to you argue and complain about it.
Not seeing a solution yet... hoping to get there soon.
Not seeing a solution yet... hoping to get there soon.
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 25,896
Likes: 24
From: Rohnert Park CA
didn't see any threads in the suggestions and comments section or the kills section where people complained about RX7Club.com condoning street racing, yet there is now plenty of posts against keeping the new format. The mods have been the ones saying that the board's image is at stake, that's why I brought up a compromise in the first place.
In this thread, there have been 26 different people who have all posted on the side of reverting the kills section back to the way it was. There has only been 6 people voicing their opinion on keeping it the way it is now. In the poll that's been posted, votes for reverting the kills section back to the way it was more than doubles your side. How much more opposition, exactly, do you want?
There's no way you're going to get every member of the board, or even close to half of the board, to voice an opinion on this. Your side is in the minority. If you're asking for a majority voice in order to change it back, based on this discussion, you've already gotten it.
There's no way you're going to get every member of the board, or even close to half of the board, to voice an opinion on this. Your side is in the minority. If you're asking for a majority voice in order to change it back, based on this discussion, you've already gotten it.
But regardless, (at this time) only 55.62% of the people that voted, voted to change it back. Not exactly an overwhelming majority. In fact if you consider that the only people that are voting are ones that go to the polls section or have been following this thread it makes the number even more insignificant.
1. In this thread, there have been 26 different people who have all posted on the side of reverting the kills section back to the way it was. There has only been 6 people voicing their opinion on keeping it the way it is now. In the poll that's been posted, votes for reverting the kills section back to the way it was more than doubles your side. How much more opposition, exactly, do you want?
2. It doesn't matter what YOUR perception of the section is, it's still not the same as mine. What you find boring, I might find entertaining.
3. That still sets a benchmark for cars that you can beat. I never said that the kills section was an absolute way of determining what car is faster, but it does provide itself as an additional resource.
4. I have never seen a kill story posted anywhere other than the kills section. Even if there are a few in other sections, the great majority of them get posted in the kills section, which is where the admonishment for those characteristics happens.
5. You're trying to tell me that a mod has read through every post in that section? Be real.
6. At first glance, how did things look badly before? The section wasn't titled "Illegal Kills Section", it was simply "Kills Section". There was nothing there that implied illegal activity.
2. It doesn't matter what YOUR perception of the section is, it's still not the same as mine. What you find boring, I might find entertaining.
3. That still sets a benchmark for cars that you can beat. I never said that the kills section was an absolute way of determining what car is faster, but it does provide itself as an additional resource.
4. I have never seen a kill story posted anywhere other than the kills section. Even if there are a few in other sections, the great majority of them get posted in the kills section, which is where the admonishment for those characteristics happens.
5. You're trying to tell me that a mod has read through every post in that section? Be real.
6. At first glance, how did things look badly before? The section wasn't titled "Illegal Kills Section", it was simply "Kills Section". There was nothing there that implied illegal activity.
5. I do, I know Rowtareh does, and I believe Rutt does as well. Does that count for all of them?
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,720
Likes: 1
From: Greenwood/Hartsville, SC.
Actually the pole was started without the last option, so it would have been invalid anyway. This is not a black and white or yes and no situation. If it was, then I wouldn't be asking for your input at all and I would just put it the way that the mods staff would like it.
But regardless, (at this time) only 55.62% of the people that voted, voted to change it back. Not exactly an overwhelming majority. In fact if you consider that the only people that are voting are ones that go to the polls section or have been following this thread it makes the number even more insignificant.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,720
Likes: 1
From: Greenwood/Hartsville, SC.
5. No, sorry.
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 25,896
Likes: 24
From: Rohnert Park CA
Isn't that what you did in the first place?
#2 No, as posted earlier in this thread, the change was suggested, and discussed with the mod and admin staff here. The current way it exists was actully brought up by a mod as a solution of instead of just deleting the section away. But as I recall, there was not one vote of the mod staff about keeping the section as it was. Furthermore, as I just said (and I guess you didn't read) if we were not trying to come up with a solution I would simply say tough **** and live with it and lock all the related threads, instead of asking for positive and clear and concise arguments for it
Double the amount of votes is an overwhelming majority, the rest simply don't care and can't be lumped in on your side.
And since there are more members online this very second than voted in the pole and someone (I don't remember who and don't care enough to go look) called tampering then the results are not valid. They don't count... it means nothing.
And again you try and make it personal (which I warned several other members about earlier in this thread) regardless (and you simply are not getting this) which one is my side? Which one did I vote for?
Do you really think you know?
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,720
Likes: 1
From: Greenwood/Hartsville, SC.
#1 Attacking makes you look stupid and does not help your cause.
#2 No, as posted earlier in this thread, the change was suggested, and discussed with the mod and admin staff here. The current way it exists was actully brought up by a mod as a solution of instead of just deleting the section away. But as I recall, there was not one vote of the mod staff about keeping the section as it was. Furthermore, as I just said (and I guess you didn't read) if we were not trying to come up with a solution I would simply say tough **** and live with it and lock all the related threads, instead of asking for positive and clear and concise arguments for it
#2 No, as posted earlier in this thread, the change was suggested, and discussed with the mod and admin staff here. The current way it exists was actully brought up by a mod as a solution of instead of just deleting the section away. But as I recall, there was not one vote of the mod staff about keeping the section as it was. Furthermore, as I just said (and I guess you didn't read) if we were not trying to come up with a solution I would simply say tough **** and live with it and lock all the related threads, instead of asking for positive and clear and concise arguments for it
As for the mods not trying to come up with a solution and saying "tough ****", that's exactly what Rowtareh said at the beginning of this thread. There was a lot of "too bad, I'm a mod and you're not" posting going on. That kind of thing doesn't help anybody.
What about an LS1 swap only kill section?
I did notice a lot of people who look at polls will not vote if the poll is heavily in their favor. They are like "ehh" so usually if people disagree with it they will try to change it.
Human nature
(p.s.) who owns this site?
I did notice a lot of people who look at polls will not vote if the poll is heavily in their favor. They are like "ehh" so usually if people disagree with it they will try to change it.
Human nature
(p.s.) who owns this site?
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 25,896
Likes: 24
From: Rohnert Park CA
Discussing it among the mod. staff isn't the same as asking the rest of the board about what should be done. And yes, I'm aware that this isn't a democracy and you enjoy that, but it only leaves yourself open for criticism when the idea isn't widely accepted and there's a better option available.
The problem with feedback from the community is that not all the members have the community in their best interests. And very very few are fighting to make this place better. Some just like stirring up ****. Some like telling lies or personal paranoia to get the herd stampeding. Some really see the place as evil and won't stop destroying it until they are banned. Would you want these to be putting in input on what can make this community better?
Not saying that there are not great members, there are many great ones... but not all have the same sense of giving up your free time and in some cases compromising your personal life that many of the mod staff do. So any major decision is posted and discussed in the mods section before implementation.
Not to say that all the mod staff are perfect either. I can think of one mod just recently that got himself first stripped of mod powers and eventually banned from promoting his own agenda and literally hurting the community here. He even tried to delete the majority of the posts (including historical ones of pictures found nowhere else) in his section. Yet he never saw his actions as hurting the community. The way he saw it, what he was/is making off the RX-7 community justifies his actions to himself, regardless of who it hurts here.
But the majority of the mod staff just want everyone to get along, don't want to change anything, and want harmony for the board. I just wish more members did.