Project OldTree: The 12 Days of Rotormas
01-15-11, 01:56 PM
#76
The problem I had when using one of those car to household adapters was not enough current. Those universal AC-DC adapters have the same issue since they often can only put out 300-600ma. While it would boot up a haltech, there'd be all sorts of issues with trying to get it to connect as I did.
A pc power supply will easily solve that issue, and I can put in application-specific connectors too. Stuff like a Haltech could be booted up inside, have the map loaded. Plus, atx power supplies are common, cheap and you can always get a better one if you need more power. For my purposes, 300 watts should be plenty. That equals 25 amps at 12v and 60 amps at 5 volts (Amps=Watts/Voltage). Except for maybe a stereo, 25 amps of current is gonna be OVERKILL for any electrical project. And yes, each circuit will have its own 20 amp fuse, to protect both the connected device and power supply from working too hard. As we all know, running a power source at it's limit makes it poop out fast. With a 20 amp fuse on each circuit, it can't go over 80% on the 12v circuit and 33% on the 5v one.
01-24-11, 03:24 PM
#77
Over the past few days, myself and ObliqueFD have been figuring out all the ins and outs of the turbo control system while working on his black FD
So to clear up any and ALL confusion on how the system works, here's a breakdown of the valves and actuators with locations and functions.
Exhaust/Turbine side
Turbo Pre-Control Actuator: Mounted on Turbos, covers approx 33% of rear turbo exhaust inlet opening. Is a linear actuator
Function: Opens first at approx. 3000rpm (FD figure). Allows pre-spooling of Rear Turbo. Controlled by Pre-Control Solenoid
Turbo Control Actuator: Mounted on Exhaust Manifold, covers approx 66% of rear turbo exhaust inlet opening. Is a linear actuator
Function: Opens second at approx. 3500rpm (FD figure). Controls exhaust flow between front and rear turbos. When stock, is controlled by TWO Turbo Control Solenoids, one for vacuum and one for boost. TC Boost is connected to the Y-pipe after the merge. TC Vacuum is the whole reason why there's a vacuum chamber, to maintain a constant source of vacuum when the intake is under boost.
Wastegate Actuator: Mounted on Turbos, is a linear actuator.
Function: Opens last, regulates total boost pressure, factory set at 10psi. Controlled by Wastegate Solenoid.
Intake/Compressor Side
Charge Control Valve: Mounted inside Compressor Y-pipe assembly before merge, is a butterfly valve.
Function: Closes off rear turbo leg of Y-pipe to prevent backspooling by front turbo. Controlled by Charge Control Actuator
Charge Control Actuator: Mounted on Y-pipe Assembly before merge, is a linear actuator.
Function. Opens Charge Control Valve at 3500rpm (FD figure) so both turbos are providing boost. Controlled by Charge Control Solenoid
Charge Relief Valve: Mounted on Compressor Y-pipe between rear compressor outlet and Charge Control Valve
Function: Allows Rear Turbo to pre-spool, bypassing the Charge Control Valve to deliver the rear turbo's air to the Y-pipe. Controlled by Charge Relief Solenoid.
Air Bypass Valve: Mounted on Y-pipe after merge.
Function: Blowoff Valve, vents boost pressure back to air filter when vacuum is detected in UIM (when you let off the throttle). Controlled by Vacuum from UIM.
So in completely stock form, the FD and Cosmo require 6 solenoids to control the turbos properly. On the exhaust side: Precontrol, Turbo Control (Vacuum & Boost), Wastegate. And on the intake side: Charge Control and Charge Relief.
In theory, you could eliminate one of the Turbo Control Solenoids by changing the system to where it opens at a set rpm point and using a wastegate actuator on it instead of the diaphragm+boost/vacuum system it uses originally. When I get it assembled, I'll be testing it at first with a FD Turbo Control Actuator+Solenoids
So, using the FD's control system as a model, here's how the transition works.
0-3000rpm:
Turbo Control Flapper is closed
Turbo Pre-Control is closed
Wastegate is closed
Charge Control Butterfly Valve is closed
Charge Relief Valve is closed
3000-3500rpm
Turbo Pre-Control is open
Turbo Control is closed
Wastegate is closed
Charge Control Butterfly Valve is closed
Charge Relief Valve is open
3500-4000rpm
Turbo Pre-Control is open
Turbo Control is open
Wastegate is closed
Charge Control Butterfly Valve is open
Charge Relief Valve is closed
Now, as most FD owners know, the weak point of the whole system are its moving parts. The Charge Control Actuator seems to be the weakest link of all. It's a linear actuator that moves based on vacuum. But when the rod gets dirty, the gunk gets inside the actuator and ruins it, so the rear turbo stays in pre-spool mode (if the CCV is closed) or you get backspooling if the CCV is stuck open.
So I got to thinking about it and a solution hit me like a ton of bricks: Use a rotary actuator instead. But since all I could find are ones that operate from positive pressure, its source line needs to be under pressure from the primary turbo. Add in a new butterfly valve coupled to the actuator and the whole system becomes much more reliable. With all this in mind, I went to Harbor Freight last night and picked up an arc welder, stopped over at Micro Center for a 400 watt ATX power supply and will hit lowes tomorrow for some galvanized pipe to prototype the new system together. Like all my other inventions, it'll be offered for sale after I feel comfortable with the results. And unlike other designs, this will work on the FD, 13B-RE and 20B-REW and be rebuildable at a price far less than fixing the stock system with parts from Mazdatrix.
So to clear up any and ALL confusion on how the system works, here's a breakdown of the valves and actuators with locations and functions.
Exhaust/Turbine side
Turbo Pre-Control Actuator: Mounted on Turbos, covers approx 33% of rear turbo exhaust inlet opening. Is a linear actuator
Function: Opens first at approx. 3000rpm (FD figure). Allows pre-spooling of Rear Turbo. Controlled by Pre-Control Solenoid
Turbo Control Actuator: Mounted on Exhaust Manifold, covers approx 66% of rear turbo exhaust inlet opening. Is a linear actuator
Function: Opens second at approx. 3500rpm (FD figure). Controls exhaust flow between front and rear turbos. When stock, is controlled by TWO Turbo Control Solenoids, one for vacuum and one for boost. TC Boost is connected to the Y-pipe after the merge. TC Vacuum is the whole reason why there's a vacuum chamber, to maintain a constant source of vacuum when the intake is under boost.
Wastegate Actuator: Mounted on Turbos, is a linear actuator.
Function: Opens last, regulates total boost pressure, factory set at 10psi. Controlled by Wastegate Solenoid.
Intake/Compressor Side
Charge Control Valve: Mounted inside Compressor Y-pipe assembly before merge, is a butterfly valve.
Function: Closes off rear turbo leg of Y-pipe to prevent backspooling by front turbo. Controlled by Charge Control Actuator
Charge Control Actuator: Mounted on Y-pipe Assembly before merge, is a linear actuator.
Function. Opens Charge Control Valve at 3500rpm (FD figure) so both turbos are providing boost. Controlled by Charge Control Solenoid
Charge Relief Valve: Mounted on Compressor Y-pipe between rear compressor outlet and Charge Control Valve
Function: Allows Rear Turbo to pre-spool, bypassing the Charge Control Valve to deliver the rear turbo's air to the Y-pipe. Controlled by Charge Relief Solenoid.
Air Bypass Valve: Mounted on Y-pipe after merge.
Function: Blowoff Valve, vents boost pressure back to air filter when vacuum is detected in UIM (when you let off the throttle). Controlled by Vacuum from UIM.
So in completely stock form, the FD and Cosmo require 6 solenoids to control the turbos properly. On the exhaust side: Precontrol, Turbo Control (Vacuum & Boost), Wastegate. And on the intake side: Charge Control and Charge Relief.
In theory, you could eliminate one of the Turbo Control Solenoids by changing the system to where it opens at a set rpm point and using a wastegate actuator on it instead of the diaphragm+boost/vacuum system it uses originally. When I get it assembled, I'll be testing it at first with a FD Turbo Control Actuator+Solenoids
So, using the FD's control system as a model, here's how the transition works.
0-3000rpm:
Turbo Control Flapper is closed
Turbo Pre-Control is closed
Wastegate is closed
Charge Control Butterfly Valve is closed
Charge Relief Valve is closed
3000-3500rpm
Turbo Pre-Control is open
Turbo Control is closed
Wastegate is closed
Charge Control Butterfly Valve is closed
Charge Relief Valve is open
3500-4000rpm
Turbo Pre-Control is open
Turbo Control is open
Wastegate is closed
Charge Control Butterfly Valve is open
Charge Relief Valve is closed
Now, as most FD owners know, the weak point of the whole system are its moving parts. The Charge Control Actuator seems to be the weakest link of all. It's a linear actuator that moves based on vacuum. But when the rod gets dirty, the gunk gets inside the actuator and ruins it, so the rear turbo stays in pre-spool mode (if the CCV is closed) or you get backspooling if the CCV is stuck open.
So I got to thinking about it and a solution hit me like a ton of bricks: Use a rotary actuator instead. But since all I could find are ones that operate from positive pressure, its source line needs to be under pressure from the primary turbo. Add in a new butterfly valve coupled to the actuator and the whole system becomes much more reliable. With all this in mind, I went to Harbor Freight last night and picked up an arc welder, stopped over at Micro Center for a 400 watt ATX power supply and will hit lowes tomorrow for some galvanized pipe to prototype the new system together. Like all my other inventions, it'll be offered for sale after I feel comfortable with the results. And unlike other designs, this will work on the FD, 13B-RE and 20B-REW and be rebuildable at a price far less than fixing the stock system with parts from Mazdatrix.
01-30-11, 01:56 PM
#78
Did some more brainworking over the past couple days on the turbos. Got the inlets and outlets measured. Initially, I thought they were 2" but they are not. Every one of them is SMALLER than that. Turns out the rear outlet is 1.5" and the front is 1.75". The front inlet is 1.75" and the rear inlet is 1.625" in diameter. Those are what would be the inner diameter of the plumbing, which will make it much easier to put together using NPT pipe
Pipe is measured by the INNER DIAMETER and Tubing is measured by the OUTER DIAMETER. So 1 1/2" NPT pipe would be the right size for the rear turbo. As for the front one, that's gonna be tricky since no one makes a 1.75" NPT pipe
1.76625 in^2 is the area of the rear outlet (1.5")
2.4040625 in^2 is the area of the front outlet (1.75")
3.14 in^2 is the inner area of a 2" NPT pipe
4.90625 in^2 is the inner area of a 2.5" NPT pipe
So, 1.5" pipe for the rear is fine and 2" is as close as I can get to getting the front right without restricting flow.
Also, I'd like to point out that the FD's rear inlet pipe's flange is too small for the 20B's rear turbo inlet flange too. Gonna have to fab that together too
Pipe is measured by the INNER DIAMETER and Tubing is measured by the OUTER DIAMETER. So 1 1/2" NPT pipe would be the right size for the rear turbo. As for the front one, that's gonna be tricky since no one makes a 1.75" NPT pipe
1.76625 in^2 is the area of the rear outlet (1.5")
2.4040625 in^2 is the area of the front outlet (1.75")
3.14 in^2 is the inner area of a 2" NPT pipe
4.90625 in^2 is the inner area of a 2.5" NPT pipe
So, 1.5" pipe for the rear is fine and 2" is as close as I can get to getting the front right without restricting flow.
Also, I'd like to point out that the FD's rear inlet pipe's flange is too small for the 20B's rear turbo inlet flange too. Gonna have to fab that together too
02-12-11, 05:24 PM
#79
Pre-Valentines Day update:
Today was the first non-sucky weather day in awhile, so ObliqueFD and I FINALLY got the harness run through the firewall today. Contrary to popular belief, it's definitely a 2-person job. Tried doing it myself before the weather turned to poop and I gave up after 30 minutes. Also, I'd like to note that the easiest way to approach it is not to just put only the haltech connectors through and leave the fuses/relays under the hood, but to fish the wires through one group at a time from the inside. This is where a second pair of hands comes into play. One person to run a coat hangar through the hole and one to secure the wires to the hangar and aide feeding them through.
So now that the hard part is out of the way, it should be all cake to finish things up in quick order. Tomorrow's main order of business is to organize and tidy the harness up under the hood.
On a side note,I'd like to give some credit to kg6dxn on rotarycarclub for sending me the highly coveted JC Cosmo Shop Manual. It's the Series 1 manual, for all JC3SE/JCESE cars starting in 1990.
Though I don't officially know Japanese, I've watched enough subbed anime, played enough Japanese Super NES roms and played enough puzzle games to create a workable English version.
I'll be working on translating it as time permits after the conversion is done. Can't really give an estimated timeframe yet, but I'll keep everyone posted. One thing I've seen is that the Car Control System was a very slick piece in 1990. Stuff like the steering wheel audio controls and how it interfaces with the CCS is very well-thought out. Who would have thought to put an In-Call indicator in the gauge cluster? Or a "No Signal" indicator too? Mazda really should have made it an option in the Cosmo's four-door sibling, the 929.
Today was the first non-sucky weather day in awhile, so ObliqueFD and I FINALLY got the harness run through the firewall today. Contrary to popular belief, it's definitely a 2-person job. Tried doing it myself before the weather turned to poop and I gave up after 30 minutes. Also, I'd like to note that the easiest way to approach it is not to just put only the haltech connectors through and leave the fuses/relays under the hood, but to fish the wires through one group at a time from the inside. This is where a second pair of hands comes into play. One person to run a coat hangar through the hole and one to secure the wires to the hangar and aide feeding them through.
So now that the hard part is out of the way, it should be all cake to finish things up in quick order. Tomorrow's main order of business is to organize and tidy the harness up under the hood.
On a side note,I'd like to give some credit to kg6dxn on rotarycarclub for sending me the highly coveted JC Cosmo Shop Manual. It's the Series 1 manual, for all JC3SE/JCESE cars starting in 1990.
Though I don't officially know Japanese, I've watched enough subbed anime, played enough Japanese Super NES roms and played enough puzzle games to create a workable English version.
I'll be working on translating it as time permits after the conversion is done. Can't really give an estimated timeframe yet, but I'll keep everyone posted. One thing I've seen is that the Car Control System was a very slick piece in 1990. Stuff like the steering wheel audio controls and how it interfaces with the CCS is very well-thought out. Who would have thought to put an In-Call indicator in the gauge cluster? Or a "No Signal" indicator too? Mazda really should have made it an option in the Cosmo's four-door sibling, the 929.
02-13-11, 03:06 PM
#80
Update WITH PIC!!
Did a little work getting things tidied up today. Fed the harness through a bit more, in order to get more wiggle room under the hood. Also organized and bundled each set into the most logical conduits. I temporarily left a gap at the firewall hole between what comes through it and the routing tubes. That gap has the identification tags for each wire in it.
The blue one contains every sensor wire
Every wire will be run to a junction station on the driver's side, then will go to their individual destinations via sub-harnesses. The idea for that is both to keep it clean as well as make it possible to remove the whole engine without having a mess of wires everywhere like last time. Between a couple GM radio harnesses for what's going to be immediately used and a barrier strip or two for the currently unused wires, that should take care of everything.
The blue one contains every sensor wire
Every wire will be run to a junction station on the driver's side, then will go to their individual destinations via sub-harnesses. The idea for that is both to keep it clean as well as make it possible to remove the whole engine without having a mess of wires everywhere like last time. Between a couple GM radio harnesses for what's going to be immediately used and a barrier strip or two for the currently unused wires, that should take care of everything.
Last edited by Akagis_white_comet; 08-20-12 at 05:52 PM. Reason: moved pictures
02-16-11, 05:11 PM
#82
Spent today cleaning up and reorganizing the wiring so it makes more logical sense. There's one crossover at the firewall hole thanks to the DSI wire that couldn't be easily moved without re-running it through the firewall. So other than that, the perfectionist in me is satisfied with it now.
Junction box is 90% finished and will be placed behind the driver's side strut tower, reusing the Trailing Coil's mounts. It'll house every single wire coming from the Haltech except for the Injectors, Ignition, TPS and Coolant & Air Temperature Sensor wires. Inside it are three european-style barrier strips from Radio Shack, cut and super-glued back together to fit snugly inside the box. If there's anything I've learned from this project, it's that organization is a necessity. The barrier strips will keep all the wiring organized. After the box, everything will go off to their proper destinations with 12-gauge wire in red, blue and black. Red is power, Blue is signal and black is ground.
The remaining wires are being run through two GM stereo harnesses bolted to the side of the strut tower. These will allow removing circuits one at a time in groups of four. So one connector for primary injectors, one for secondaries and so on.
Test fit
Close-up of the wiring junction area
Junction box is 90% finished and will be placed behind the driver's side strut tower, reusing the Trailing Coil's mounts. It'll house every single wire coming from the Haltech except for the Injectors, Ignition, TPS and Coolant & Air Temperature Sensor wires. Inside it are three european-style barrier strips from Radio Shack, cut and super-glued back together to fit snugly inside the box. If there's anything I've learned from this project, it's that organization is a necessity. The barrier strips will keep all the wiring organized. After the box, everything will go off to their proper destinations with 12-gauge wire in red, blue and black. Red is power, Blue is signal and black is ground.
The remaining wires are being run through two GM stereo harnesses bolted to the side of the strut tower. These will allow removing circuits one at a time in groups of four. So one connector for primary injectors, one for secondaries and so on.
Test fit
Close-up of the wiring junction area
Last edited by Akagis_white_comet; 08-20-12 at 05:54 PM. Reason: Moved Pictures
02-17-11, 04:31 PM
#84
Thanks for the praise TheAbsence.
Today's update has brought small but important progress. Yesterday I ran into a snag with the GM stereo connectors: only one readily accessible threaded hole on the driver's side strut tower. There is one lower down, but it's too close to the brake hardline. So here's my solution:
Aluminum cover from a Radio Shack Project Box, a M6x1.0 stud and bolt (from the LIM on the 20b) and two M6x1.0 nuts.
Total Cost: $0
As soon as I bolted that on, the mail arrived with my new 20B Cosmo Y-pipe and rear turbo inlet, courtesy of ITSWILL (thanks man, you REALLY helped me out!). Figured it was time for a break from wiring, so here's how it looks.
The only issue with it is the frontmost pipe being too tall to clear the hood. As we all know, the Cosmo's hood sits nearly flat when closed so it's not an issue there. But with the FC and FD, it's sloped maybe 20 degrees. It hits the crossing between the diagonal and horizontal brace. So looks like the hood needs modded a tad more.
Today's update has brought small but important progress. Yesterday I ran into a snag with the GM stereo connectors: only one readily accessible threaded hole on the driver's side strut tower. There is one lower down, but it's too close to the brake hardline. So here's my solution:
Aluminum cover from a Radio Shack Project Box, a M6x1.0 stud and bolt (from the LIM on the 20b) and two M6x1.0 nuts.
Total Cost: $0
As soon as I bolted that on, the mail arrived with my new 20B Cosmo Y-pipe and rear turbo inlet, courtesy of ITSWILL (thanks man, you REALLY helped me out!). Figured it was time for a break from wiring, so here's how it looks.
The only issue with it is the frontmost pipe being too tall to clear the hood. As we all know, the Cosmo's hood sits nearly flat when closed so it's not an issue there. But with the FC and FD, it's sloped maybe 20 degrees. It hits the crossing between the diagonal and horizontal brace. So looks like the hood needs modded a tad more.
Last edited by Akagis_white_comet; 08-20-12 at 05:55 PM. Reason: moved pics
02-17-11, 05:50 PM
#85
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The only issue with it is the frontmost pipe being too tall to clear the hood. As we all know, the Cosmo's hood sits nearly flat when closed so it's not an issue there. But with the FC and FD, it's sloped maybe 20 degrees. It hits the crossing between the diagonal and horizontal brace. So looks like the hood needs modded a tad more.
The only issue with it is the frontmost pipe being too tall to clear the hood. As we all know, the Cosmo's hood sits nearly flat when closed so it's not an issue there. But with the FC and FD, it's sloped maybe 20 degrees. It hits the crossing between the diagonal and horizontal brace. So looks like the hood needs modded a tad more.
you can see i also had to flip the water hose outlet too, my friend just used a hose that looked like a question mark on the 20B2000
02-18-11, 04:48 PM
#86
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more pics
02-19-11, 09:51 PM
#87
Remembering a dear friend
Today I've taken the whole day off after hearing this morning at 7am that my best bud's sister died. Patricia Wilbanks, better known as Trisha Finney commited suicide on January 9th, 2011. What my friend Todd told me was that she was depressed (wouldn't say why, so I'm asking his brother Ryan) and that their mom Sandra took her to see a psychiatrist. If you've ever called the fairfield county sheriff's office, you probably talked to Sandra and know that she doesn't jump at ghosts.
Trisha was an old soul whose wisdom would often fall on deaf ears in her immediate family. She was a sweet girl with a solid sense of practicality.
It's why she latched onto me, since I listen to everyone with an open mind and heart. Last time I was over there, her and I had a very in-depth discussion about sociology and psychology first thing in the morning over coffee. Makes me wish I had known she was depressed before new years', so she wouldn't feel so isolated.
Last autumn, Todd bought a Del Sol on the cheap with a seized engine. We were gonna rebuild it for when Trisha got her license. Near the end of the season, Todd mentioned to be that she enjoyed going junkyard trolling for parts and finding a diamond in the proverbial desert.
When Amy, my exgirlfriend, and I were on the rocks 3 years ago, Trisha said something incredibly insightful. "If you love her, accept her and be with her.". Trisha was definitely the kind of girl that everyone here would like.
So I'd like to offer a memorial to Trisha, a dear friend whom we'll miss forever. If anyone would like to offer condolences, ask for Sandra Hackmann at the sheriff's office and say that Travis sent you.
Patricia Leanne Hackmann Wilbanks
1995-2011
We love you Trisha
Trisha was an old soul whose wisdom would often fall on deaf ears in her immediate family. She was a sweet girl with a solid sense of practicality.
It's why she latched onto me, since I listen to everyone with an open mind and heart. Last time I was over there, her and I had a very in-depth discussion about sociology and psychology first thing in the morning over coffee. Makes me wish I had known she was depressed before new years', so she wouldn't feel so isolated.
Last autumn, Todd bought a Del Sol on the cheap with a seized engine. We were gonna rebuild it for when Trisha got her license. Near the end of the season, Todd mentioned to be that she enjoyed going junkyard trolling for parts and finding a diamond in the proverbial desert.
When Amy, my exgirlfriend, and I were on the rocks 3 years ago, Trisha said something incredibly insightful. "If you love her, accept her and be with her.". Trisha was definitely the kind of girl that everyone here would like.
So I'd like to offer a memorial to Trisha, a dear friend whom we'll miss forever. If anyone would like to offer condolences, ask for Sandra Hackmann at the sheriff's office and say that Travis sent you.
Patricia Leanne Hackmann Wilbanks
1995-2011
We love you Trisha
02-24-11, 12:05 PM
#88
The last few days have been an emotional roller coaster, but it's time to get back to the build. Thank you everyone for offering wisdom and condolences.
Big props to ITSWILL for giving me a 3rd S4T2 tan top Injector. You kick *** man. Combined with hooking me up with the Cosmo Y-pipe for $65 and that makes me VERY happy.
Now that the fuel system is finished, I can finally give the ignition system some attention. My initial plan was to use 3 Trailing coils, but deemed it too big and clunky. After that was 3 Leading coils, but that was fouled up when I found out afterwards that it's the leading coil that works via wasted spark and does the tach signal (not the Trailing coil as previously thought).
Most guys use LS1 coils with great results. But since I've never seen any LS1 car in any junkyard before, it was either buy them new for ~$40 each or find another option. That's why I was thinking about reusing the FC coils, which didn't exactly work out as planned. So back to the drawing board and then I stumbled upon the perfect solution... Dodge Viper coils.
The 92-97 first generation Viper uses a similar Coil-on-Plug setup like the LS1 does, but they're much more common thanks to Chrysler's parts-bin engineering. And when the second gen viper was changed to use centralized coils sourced from the Neon (4 port) and Caravan (6 port), the coil-on-plug system was recycled to the second generation of LH-platform cars, the Concorde/Intrepid/300. Wiring is simple too, one signal and one power to each.
So tomorrow I'm off to the junkyard to grab six coils from a 98+ Concorde/Intrepid and six EGR Solenoids from GM trucks to tackle the turbo control system and finish the wiring up completely. Add in some recycled materials for a solenoid box and ignition coil platform and wiring shall be finished. Total cost: under $50
Speaking of wiring, I've devised a way to get the A/C to work properly like stock using only one input. Details shall follow in the next update once I get it assembled.
Big props to ITSWILL for giving me a 3rd S4T2 tan top Injector. You kick *** man. Combined with hooking me up with the Cosmo Y-pipe for $65 and that makes me VERY happy.
Now that the fuel system is finished, I can finally give the ignition system some attention. My initial plan was to use 3 Trailing coils, but deemed it too big and clunky. After that was 3 Leading coils, but that was fouled up when I found out afterwards that it's the leading coil that works via wasted spark and does the tach signal (not the Trailing coil as previously thought).
Most guys use LS1 coils with great results. But since I've never seen any LS1 car in any junkyard before, it was either buy them new for ~$40 each or find another option. That's why I was thinking about reusing the FC coils, which didn't exactly work out as planned. So back to the drawing board and then I stumbled upon the perfect solution... Dodge Viper coils.
The 92-97 first generation Viper uses a similar Coil-on-Plug setup like the LS1 does, but they're much more common thanks to Chrysler's parts-bin engineering. And when the second gen viper was changed to use centralized coils sourced from the Neon (4 port) and Caravan (6 port), the coil-on-plug system was recycled to the second generation of LH-platform cars, the Concorde/Intrepid/300. Wiring is simple too, one signal and one power to each.
So tomorrow I'm off to the junkyard to grab six coils from a 98+ Concorde/Intrepid and six EGR Solenoids from GM trucks to tackle the turbo control system and finish the wiring up completely. Add in some recycled materials for a solenoid box and ignition coil platform and wiring shall be finished. Total cost: under $50
Speaking of wiring, I've devised a way to get the A/C to work properly like stock using only one input. Details shall follow in the next update once I get it assembled.
03-10-11, 02:49 AM
#89
After much homework and research on ignition coils. I've found out that 2-wire coils generally do NOT have ignitors in them. So the concorde coils are out and I'm back to square 1 about ignition. Fortunately, tomorrow is payday and one of my chick friends needs to hit the junkyard for a mirror this weekend. Who knows, we might find some gold there...
Something I JUST discovered is that the twin turbo control system can be further simplified by eliminating the vacuum and boost chambers. Turbo Control solenoid goes to a check valve, then to the Post-CCV nipple. Eliminating the Vacuum Chamber will make the transition from single to twin turbo mode more sudden as the Charge Control Valve is opening at the same time as the Charge Relief valves closes. One can do this by connecting the CRV/CCV and Turbo Control (Vacuum Side) solenoids directly to the front compressor inlet nipples instead of the Post-Throttle Body Nipple.
Another very clever idea I came up with is an emergency overboost protection system. Using the haltech's map sensor switch capability, the plan is to have it trigger a relay at 14 or 15psi that opens the CRV, BOV and Wastegate all together
Something I JUST discovered is that the twin turbo control system can be further simplified by eliminating the vacuum and boost chambers. Turbo Control solenoid goes to a check valve, then to the Post-CCV nipple. Eliminating the Vacuum Chamber will make the transition from single to twin turbo mode more sudden as the Charge Control Valve is opening at the same time as the Charge Relief valves closes. One can do this by connecting the CRV/CCV and Turbo Control (Vacuum Side) solenoids directly to the front compressor inlet nipples instead of the Post-Throttle Body Nipple.
Another very clever idea I came up with is an emergency overboost protection system. Using the haltech's map sensor switch capability, the plan is to have it trigger a relay at 14 or 15psi that opens the CRV, BOV and Wastegate all together
03-14-11, 07:16 PM
#90
Sorry for the lack of pictures in the last few updates, I haven't felt too ambitious in wrenching on the car recently. Yeah yeah, I'm slacking I know lol.
I struck gold this weekend... Yukon Gold
GM LS2 Truck Ignition Coils, 19005218 AKA the D585 coils with sub-harnesses included. The yard I went to was really busy and didn't have time to pull the ones I asked for (D581's), so I suggested the D585's and they came back with a full set still on the brackets 5 minutes later. $80 later and I'm cleaning all the dirt and gunk off. Out of the 3 plug wires included, it even had one plug wire completely intact too.
Add new brackets, the last subharness connector, some FC spark plug wires modded with LS1 terminals and the ignition will be done. Most people mount them under the UIM and use the LS1/LS2 wires so everything's nice and clean. The downside to that is you're tethered to a single possible coil location by the short spark plug wire length like on the FD. But by using the FC's wires with LS1 terminals, there's many more possibilities.
Oh, and plug wires for the FC are much less expensive than the LS1, LS2 or FD too
At Autozone for Duralast wires, FC ones are $15.99, LS2 12" ones are $27.99 and FD ones are $13.99 but are much shorter than the FC ones. Jegs has LS1 coil terminals for $7.99 per pair. So for mounting flexibility, I can spare an extra couple bucks to make them the PERFECT length
I struck gold this weekend... Yukon Gold
GM LS2 Truck Ignition Coils, 19005218 AKA the D585 coils with sub-harnesses included. The yard I went to was really busy and didn't have time to pull the ones I asked for (D581's), so I suggested the D585's and they came back with a full set still on the brackets 5 minutes later. $80 later and I'm cleaning all the dirt and gunk off. Out of the 3 plug wires included, it even had one plug wire completely intact too.
Add new brackets, the last subharness connector, some FC spark plug wires modded with LS1 terminals and the ignition will be done. Most people mount them under the UIM and use the LS1/LS2 wires so everything's nice and clean. The downside to that is you're tethered to a single possible coil location by the short spark plug wire length like on the FD. But by using the FC's wires with LS1 terminals, there's many more possibilities.
Oh, and plug wires for the FC are much less expensive than the LS1, LS2 or FD too
At Autozone for Duralast wires, FC ones are $15.99, LS2 12" ones are $27.99 and FD ones are $13.99 but are much shorter than the FC ones. Jegs has LS1 coil terminals for $7.99 per pair. So for mounting flexibility, I can spare an extra couple bucks to make them the PERFECT length
03-14-11, 07:38 PM
#91
You'll want to put a check valve on your brake booster line. Stock turbo's they are in the little rubber elbow piece.
Sorry to repost the image.
Sorry to repost the image.
Last edited by Akagis_white_comet; 08-20-12 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Picture moved to 20B Conversion Album
03-14-11, 07:56 PM
#92
Gm trucks did not have LS2 engines. It was likely an LQ4 or LQ9 engine. No biggie.
Also I found those 20B injectors, and I brought all the 20B parts I could find back from NY so hopefully I will find the actuator you need this weekend.
I'll probably be taking a trip to Jegs here in a couple weeks, maybe we could meet up in Columbus?
Also I found those 20B injectors, and I brought all the 20B parts I could find back from NY so hopefully I will find the actuator you need this weekend.
I'll probably be taking a trip to Jegs here in a couple weeks, maybe we could meet up in Columbus?
03-14-11, 08:32 PM
#93
Pretty sure people just call them the LS2 Truck/Yukon/D585/etc Coils. If in doubt, use the part number.
Sounds great Will, lemme know when you'll be coming in. I'll probably have to go to Jegs in the next couple weeks anyway.
Beefhole, I've never cracked open the brake hydraulics but I'll definitely keep that in mind once the engine-related items are sorted out
Sounds great Will, lemme know when you'll be coming in. I'll probably have to go to Jegs in the next couple weeks anyway.
Beefhole, I've never cracked open the brake hydraulics but I'll definitely keep that in mind once the engine-related items are sorted out
03-26-11, 09:52 PM
#94
Today was my birthday and though I haven't done much on the car in the past week, I want to take this time to tell everyone about the dangers of chemical dependencies.
A very dear friend succumbed to her addiction to vodka, percocet and vicodin in Nov/Dec 2009. She's into cars herself and we were best friends for a long time too. What caused the conflict was that her addiction took over her entire life and she was to the point of losing everything dear to her. So she flipped out, lashed out at me for saying that she needed professional help, and her husband put her in rehab so she could get the help she needed.
In her words, she should have died several times over. Over the past year, she's had an uphill climb to rebuild all the bonds her addictions ruined. And since she cleaned herself up, she realized how bad she treated me. Today marked the first time her and I could talk and make things right. So we talked...and talked about everything, what happened, all the hurt feelings, every single tiny little detail.
And in the end, I had my best friend again. Had it not been for a LOT of hard-headed faith on my part, damn good friends and a fantastic girlfriend to back me up, I'd have never solved this problem. And as soon as it happened, I heard one bit of music in my head, from Starfox 64. It's the little tune that plays right when you beat the game on the hard path.
So if you have a friend that does have a drug/alcohol problem, get them help even if they're mad at you. They'll appreciate that you did what was best for them when they can't help themselves. This past year has been hard on me, but it's made me realize that good friends WILL tell you when you're wrong. But what I now know is a great friend will show you how to make it right too.
So I'd like to thank my wonderful girl for making this the best birthday any guy could ever ask for.
(Car-related stuff will follow in the next update)
A very dear friend succumbed to her addiction to vodka, percocet and vicodin in Nov/Dec 2009. She's into cars herself and we were best friends for a long time too. What caused the conflict was that her addiction took over her entire life and she was to the point of losing everything dear to her. So she flipped out, lashed out at me for saying that she needed professional help, and her husband put her in rehab so she could get the help she needed.
In her words, she should have died several times over. Over the past year, she's had an uphill climb to rebuild all the bonds her addictions ruined. And since she cleaned herself up, she realized how bad she treated me. Today marked the first time her and I could talk and make things right. So we talked...and talked about everything, what happened, all the hurt feelings, every single tiny little detail.
And in the end, I had my best friend again. Had it not been for a LOT of hard-headed faith on my part, damn good friends and a fantastic girlfriend to back me up, I'd have never solved this problem. And as soon as it happened, I heard one bit of music in my head, from Starfox 64. It's the little tune that plays right when you beat the game on the hard path.
So if you have a friend that does have a drug/alcohol problem, get them help even if they're mad at you. They'll appreciate that you did what was best for them when they can't help themselves. This past year has been hard on me, but it's made me realize that good friends WILL tell you when you're wrong. But what I now know is a great friend will show you how to make it right too.
So I'd like to thank my wonderful girl for making this the best birthday any guy could ever ask for.
(Car-related stuff will follow in the next update)
03-28-11, 04:53 PM
#95
A couple spy shot from the Rotary REnovation secret design lab...or...the area next to my computer.
Coils sit perfectly flush and flat on the bracket template, ready for transfer onto the final materials. I'm designing the brackets for easy servicing, mounted in the stock leading location so the whole system can be pulled in 5 minutes flat with only two bolts and two plugs
Coils sit perfectly flush and flat on the bracket template, ready for transfer onto the final materials. I'm designing the brackets for easy servicing, mounted in the stock leading location so the whole system can be pulled in 5 minutes flat with only two bolts and two plugs
Last edited by Akagis_white_comet; 08-20-12 at 05:59 PM. Reason: moved pics
04-07-11, 09:55 PM
#98
Today was a productive day. Reorganized all the haltech wiring and ran the last 2 wires through the firewall for the 4-pin trim connector. And while I was at it, got rid of that annoying crossover on the DSI wire.
And thanks to the great weather today, I had a date with the dremel and churned out some ignition coil brackets. Using the existing leading coil M6x1.0 mounting studs, it proved too much for the old Odd Lots dremel to handle and it conked out, sputtering to a stop after shearing the diamonds right off of a brand new diamond drill bit from harbor freight. Fortunately, one of the items I brought back from my dad's wake years ago was a brand new, never even opened Dremel XPR400 rotary tool. With a fresh drill bit snugged in the collet, and the speed set at 8 on the dial, it ate through the steel in quick order. The bolts for the coils are M5x0.8 thread, 30mm long and are enough for one coil per bracket. At the moment, Fastenal has 75mm long ones on order for me, which should be just enough to stack the remaining three coils on.
LS2 Subharness Connectors, Pins & Seals (2 matching pairs): $30 from PCSconnector.com
4-pin mating connector for Haltech trim connector, with pins & seals: Free (sample from Tyco)
M5x0.8 75mm long bolts: $10 at Fastenal
Box of M5/M6/M8 hardware: $5 at Harbor Freight (not counted in build cost, way too many uses)
Materials: Recycled from an AT computer case
And thanks to the great weather today, I had a date with the dremel and churned out some ignition coil brackets. Using the existing leading coil M6x1.0 mounting studs, it proved too much for the old Odd Lots dremel to handle and it conked out, sputtering to a stop after shearing the diamonds right off of a brand new diamond drill bit from harbor freight. Fortunately, one of the items I brought back from my dad's wake years ago was a brand new, never even opened Dremel XPR400 rotary tool. With a fresh drill bit snugged in the collet, and the speed set at 8 on the dial, it ate through the steel in quick order. The bolts for the coils are M5x0.8 thread, 30mm long and are enough for one coil per bracket. At the moment, Fastenal has 75mm long ones on order for me, which should be just enough to stack the remaining three coils on.
LS2 Subharness Connectors, Pins & Seals (2 matching pairs): $30 from PCSconnector.com
4-pin mating connector for Haltech trim connector, with pins & seals: Free (sample from Tyco)
M5x0.8 75mm long bolts: $10 at Fastenal
Box of M5/M6/M8 hardware: $5 at Harbor Freight (not counted in build cost, way too many uses)
Materials: Recycled from an AT computer case
Last edited by Akagis_white_comet; 08-20-12 at 06:01 PM. Reason: moved pics
04-10-11, 08:02 PM
#99
Well I've decided to bite the bullet and convert the oil cooler lines to AN10, the reason being that the rear line wouldn't stretch as far as I wanted it to, and look good. While the front line was fine, I couldn't get the blasted thing on the front cover. So if anyone wants a pair of stock FC oil cooler lines in good working order, $20 and they're yours.
On the plus side though, I've found out that if the radiator is not mounted in the stock location, the special Mazdatrix 90 degree adapter isn't needed for either oil cooler line.
So to recap:
M18x1.5 to AN10 adapter: $18 each (x3)
M16x1.6 to AN10 adapter: $18 each (x1)
Jegs 5ft Red Push-Loc AN10 hose: $16
90 degree hose ends in Black: $16 each (x4)
Total: $152
Been tackling wiring today as well, coils are finished and ready to go now. Both the coils and injectors are are color-coded too, red is front, yellow is middle and blue is rear rotor, with leading and primary main lines tagged in red and trailing/secondaries tagged in yellow.
On the plus side though, I've found out that if the radiator is not mounted in the stock location, the special Mazdatrix 90 degree adapter isn't needed for either oil cooler line.
So to recap:
M18x1.5 to AN10 adapter: $18 each (x3)
M16x1.6 to AN10 adapter: $18 each (x1)
Jegs 5ft Red Push-Loc AN10 hose: $16
90 degree hose ends in Black: $16 each (x4)
Total: $152
Been tackling wiring today as well, coils are finished and ready to go now. Both the coils and injectors are are color-coded too, red is front, yellow is middle and blue is rear rotor, with leading and primary main lines tagged in red and trailing/secondaries tagged in yellow.
04-13-11, 04:33 PM
#100
One Coil, Two Coil
Red Coil, Blue Coil
Mounted up, wired up and lined up for spark plug wires. Stock length is a perfect fit too, so $15 for a new set at Autozone, plus $24 for 6 LS1 terminals w/boots at Jegs and that's all set
In this pic you can see how the rear rotor's coils (blue tags) are VERY close to one of the power steering lines. Maybe when I get more motivated after it's up and running, I'll fab up a continuous bracket and mount them all on it
Last, I'd like to take care of some damage control regarding GM Weatherpack and Tyco Superseal connectors.
Everyone says you need a special crimping tool for it. This is 100% WRONG. I used a regular el-cheapo one from Meijer, the kind you get with an assortment of crimp connectors in the automotive section. Here's a pic of them for reference, courtesy of Hometheatershack.com:
Using the toothed section in conjunction with a pair of needle nose pliers, every crimp is just as good as a $50 or $100 double-action crimper. Only difference is that you have to spend an extra 15 seconds crimping the seals on after the pins. The only tools I'd suggest to have are a proper de-pin tool set in case one goofs when slipping them into the housings, $10 at Jegs. And for doing ignition terminals, another el-cheapo crimper has a special notch just for them. You can find those at Walmart too, and here's a pic:
Red Coil, Blue Coil
Mounted up, wired up and lined up for spark plug wires. Stock length is a perfect fit too, so $15 for a new set at Autozone, plus $24 for 6 LS1 terminals w/boots at Jegs and that's all set
In this pic you can see how the rear rotor's coils (blue tags) are VERY close to one of the power steering lines. Maybe when I get more motivated after it's up and running, I'll fab up a continuous bracket and mount them all on it
Last, I'd like to take care of some damage control regarding GM Weatherpack and Tyco Superseal connectors.
Everyone says you need a special crimping tool for it. This is 100% WRONG. I used a regular el-cheapo one from Meijer, the kind you get with an assortment of crimp connectors in the automotive section. Here's a pic of them for reference, courtesy of Hometheatershack.com:
Using the toothed section in conjunction with a pair of needle nose pliers, every crimp is just as good as a $50 or $100 double-action crimper. Only difference is that you have to spend an extra 15 seconds crimping the seals on after the pins. The only tools I'd suggest to have are a proper de-pin tool set in case one goofs when slipping them into the housings, $10 at Jegs. And for doing ignition terminals, another el-cheapo crimper has a special notch just for them. You can find those at Walmart too, and here's a pic:
Last edited by Akagis_white_comet; 08-20-12 at 06:03 PM. Reason: added pic of Ignition Terminal Crimper