Project OldTree: The 12 Days of Rotormas
10-30-10, 01:45 AM
#28
Okay, time for an update now. Over the past few days, I've been getting little bits and pieces done on the build and trying to tidy all the loose ends up. These include swapping over the S4 coolant temperature and oil pressure sender (the stock gauge senders) as well as building my own engine mounts out of 1/4 and 1/8" flat iron. They were welded together by Lynn today and though not the most attractive pieces, they're beastly strong and incredibly rigid. Pretty sure his exact words were "You won't see these break, they'll be scraping you off the pavement first"
. He also let me in on some really simple but ingenious ideas that he used on his FD too, which will be implemented as well.
Including tidying up and today's progress, that's another 20 hours give or take.
Anyway, pics will follow in the morning. And if I'm quick and lucky, it'll be started up for the first time in N/A form with the twins' wastegate wired open.
Part of why I'm starting out with it this way is that I haven't had a chance to make intercooler plumbing or a proper intake elbow yet (Cosmo one hits the P/S and A/C bracket). Plus, the FD clutch I'll be using is most likely a stock one and couldn't handle the torque of a 20b with the twins operating.
I'm not too sure about the numbers, but my guess is that it'll be somewhere around 240hp and 210 ft.lbs at the flywheel. Those are based on the assumption that it's 1.5 times what a bone-stock S5 N/A does, and doesn't take into account how the twins with open wastegate will affect it, or how close the Haltech PS2K's 20b base map (with S5 fuel map) I got from Claudio is to being perfect for the 550/550 injectors.
Right now, the only way I'll be able to tell its actual power is when the clutch slips
. He also let me in on some really simple but ingenious ideas that he used on his FD too, which will be implemented as well.Including tidying up and today's progress, that's another 20 hours give or take.
Anyway, pics will follow in the morning. And if I'm quick and lucky, it'll be started up for the first time in N/A form with the twins' wastegate wired open.
Part of why I'm starting out with it this way is that I haven't had a chance to make intercooler plumbing or a proper intake elbow yet (Cosmo one hits the P/S and A/C bracket). Plus, the FD clutch I'll be using is most likely a stock one and couldn't handle the torque of a 20b with the twins operating.
I'm not too sure about the numbers, but my guess is that it'll be somewhere around 240hp and 210 ft.lbs at the flywheel. Those are based on the assumption that it's 1.5 times what a bone-stock S5 N/A does, and doesn't take into account how the twins with open wastegate will affect it, or how close the Haltech PS2K's 20b base map (with S5 fuel map) I got from Claudio is to being perfect for the 550/550 injectors.
Right now, the only way I'll be able to tell its actual power is when the clutch slips
11-05-10, 12:43 PM
#30
After a week's worth of absence due to working 3rd shift running a mail machine for credit card statements, I've resumed work on the 20b. Thought I'd take a lunch break and give everyone an update.
As of today, the mounts are finished to the point where I'm too annoyed to mess with them any longer. After breaking EVERY single dremel grinding stone I had and then getting some diamond bits from Harbor Freight for $8 to finish slotting the stock FC mount bushings, they're close enough that I'm reasonably happy with the results. The downside is that the UIM no longer clears the hood anymore. The hood is currently about 2" from closing at the front, with the latch bar just barely touching the top of the latch mechanism.
Oil pan is on and just BARELY touches the front sway bar, so there's two ways to approach it:
1. Nudge the engine forward a hair more by slotting the mounts more (there's plenty of material to work with)
2. Lower the sway bar a couple millimeters
If anyone would like to chime in and offer suggestions, I'm more than glad to try something and give credit for it. In anticipation of this, I've soaked the sway bar bolts down with PB Blaster already today.
Radiator is back in for a test fit right now and everything clears well enough. This is a completely stock N327 S4 Automatic radiator and it's a SUPER TIGHT fit. Not quite sure what I could repurpose the AT Cooler for yet, so to anyone with a creative mind, I'm all ears.
Okay, time for pics, to illustrate how close the main pulley and radiator really are.
I already got an idea on how to solve it in the usual brilliant and dirt-cheap fashion every S4 owner loves. With a few spacers made from leftover 1/4" and 1/8" flat iron, the A/C condenser can be moved forward to make room to swap the radiator brackets left to right, which will move the radiator forward by about 1/2 to 3/4". And with a little luck, that'll just be enough for the 2-Speed Taurus E-fan to barely slip in front of the main pulley and turbo oil supply pipe.
As of today, the mounts are finished to the point where I'm too annoyed to mess with them any longer. After breaking EVERY single dremel grinding stone I had and then getting some diamond bits from Harbor Freight for $8 to finish slotting the stock FC mount bushings, they're close enough that I'm reasonably happy with the results. The downside is that the UIM no longer clears the hood anymore. The hood is currently about 2" from closing at the front, with the latch bar just barely touching the top of the latch mechanism.
Oil pan is on and just BARELY touches the front sway bar, so there's two ways to approach it:
1. Nudge the engine forward a hair more by slotting the mounts more (there's plenty of material to work with)
2. Lower the sway bar a couple millimeters
If anyone would like to chime in and offer suggestions, I'm more than glad to try something and give credit for it. In anticipation of this, I've soaked the sway bar bolts down with PB Blaster already today.
Radiator is back in for a test fit right now and everything clears well enough. This is a completely stock N327 S4 Automatic radiator and it's a SUPER TIGHT fit. Not quite sure what I could repurpose the AT Cooler for yet, so to anyone with a creative mind, I'm all ears.
Okay, time for pics, to illustrate how close the main pulley and radiator really are.
I already got an idea on how to solve it in the usual brilliant and dirt-cheap fashion every S4 owner loves. With a few spacers made from leftover 1/4" and 1/8" flat iron, the A/C condenser can be moved forward to make room to swap the radiator brackets left to right, which will move the radiator forward by about 1/2 to 3/4". And with a little luck, that'll just be enough for the 2-Speed Taurus E-fan to barely slip in front of the main pulley and turbo oil supply pipe.
Last edited by Akagis_white_comet; 08-20-12 at 05:42 PM. Reason: moved pictures
11-05-10, 01:06 PM
#32
i dont think that radiator is going to be big enough, but what do i know?
anyway, i would use the trans cooler to further cool the water in your system. maybe take water straight from the turbo to the cooler then back into the block to be sent back to the radiator.
anyway, i would use the trans cooler to further cool the water in your system. maybe take water straight from the turbo to the cooler then back into the block to be sent back to the radiator.
11-06-10, 10:05 AM
#33
Stevesimon, that is EXACTLY the kind of clever, innovative thinking that I was looking for. Giving the turbos their own heat exchanger by reusing the AT one is simple and ingenious. You get a gold star and mention once it's done in the first start video.
As for the radiator itself, I figure that it's best to adapt a stock piece by making new specialized brackets. That way, if the radiator ever does need replaced, it's a simple off-the-shelf part with minimal fabrication. For hoses, the originals obviously won't work so perhaps a pair of those universal flex ones would do it for now.
Speaking of the radiator brackets, I'd like to give everyone a fair warning. Removing them can be a REAL bitch. Three of the four bolts came out no problem, but one was rusted/cold-welded to the nut on the other side (wedged between two plastic ribs). It took cutting with a carbine cutoff wheel, diamond grinding bit, hammer and chisel and bending with pliers to chew up the bolt head enough to knock it out and replace with fresh M8x1.0 hardware.
Anyway, I'm hedging that the rad will end up close to 90 degrees, so the A/C condenser is getting angled to match with a pair of machined spacers for the longer bottom mounting bolts (again, fresh M6x1.0 bolts), and the exposed studs on it are gonna be covered up to not dent up the rad.
The next time you're in Autozone or O'Reily Auto Parts, I recommend picking up the Dorman brand Value Pack for Asian Vehicles 128 piece fastener set for about $10. Part number is 799-305 and it has M6x1.0, M8x1.0, M10x1.25, M10x1.50 and M12x1.5 Class 8.8 nuts, bolts and washers in it. Class 8.8 is roughly equal to SAE Grade 5 and would cover just about anything encountered on a FC or FD.
Right now, it's a balmy 34*F outside and a bit too chilly to go out and turn wrenches. When it hits today's high of 40, I'll head out. And just for the fun of it, here's a short list of the music of the swap, all from some of my favorite video games from the FC and FD eras.
Metroid and Super Metroid OSTs
Gambare Goemon (Super Famicom)
Mega Man 1-8, X1-6, plus Rockman & Forte OSTs (cant forget Okkusenman, I Can't Defeat Airman and all of Hyadain and Brentalfloss's lyrical versions, they ROCK)
Star Fox, Star Fox 2 and Star Fox 64 OSTs
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 OST
All of them have kickass music that keeps the adrenaline flowing, perfect for big projects like this.
As for the radiator itself, I figure that it's best to adapt a stock piece by making new specialized brackets. That way, if the radiator ever does need replaced, it's a simple off-the-shelf part with minimal fabrication. For hoses, the originals obviously won't work so perhaps a pair of those universal flex ones would do it for now.
Speaking of the radiator brackets, I'd like to give everyone a fair warning. Removing them can be a REAL bitch. Three of the four bolts came out no problem, but one was rusted/cold-welded to the nut on the other side (wedged between two plastic ribs). It took cutting with a carbine cutoff wheel, diamond grinding bit, hammer and chisel and bending with pliers to chew up the bolt head enough to knock it out and replace with fresh M8x1.0 hardware.
Anyway, I'm hedging that the rad will end up close to 90 degrees, so the A/C condenser is getting angled to match with a pair of machined spacers for the longer bottom mounting bolts (again, fresh M6x1.0 bolts), and the exposed studs on it are gonna be covered up to not dent up the rad.
The next time you're in Autozone or O'Reily Auto Parts, I recommend picking up the Dorman brand Value Pack for Asian Vehicles 128 piece fastener set for about $10. Part number is 799-305 and it has M6x1.0, M8x1.0, M10x1.25, M10x1.50 and M12x1.5 Class 8.8 nuts, bolts and washers in it. Class 8.8 is roughly equal to SAE Grade 5 and would cover just about anything encountered on a FC or FD.
Right now, it's a balmy 34*F outside and a bit too chilly to go out and turn wrenches. When it hits today's high of 40, I'll head out. And just for the fun of it, here's a short list of the music of the swap, all from some of my favorite video games from the FC and FD eras.
Metroid and Super Metroid OSTs
Gambare Goemon (Super Famicom)
Mega Man 1-8, X1-6, plus Rockman & Forte OSTs (cant forget Okkusenman, I Can't Defeat Airman and all of Hyadain and Brentalfloss's lyrical versions, they ROCK)
Star Fox, Star Fox 2 and Star Fox 64 OSTs
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 OST
All of them have kickass music that keeps the adrenaline flowing, perfect for big projects like this.
11-07-10, 06:51 AM
#34
Well, I've run into a snag with the A/C condenser, it doesn't want to move enough without undoing the lines. So I am seeking assistance from my fellow S4 owners with A/C. If anyone has a spare condenser laying around, could you please do me a favor and measure the thread pitch of the following items:
Driver's side fitting
Passenger side main line to Drier fittings
Passenger side Drier to Condenser fittings
I need these fitting thread pitches to take to the local hydraulic shop and have them make some jumper hoses. It's just a guess, but I think they might be somewhere around the same pitch as the brake hardlines. Once those are made, I'll be mounting the radiator with the stock brackets modified (a slot in each of them) so they'll fit with the top mount holes stock and the bottom holes underneath the capture nuts on the rad support with a few washers to adjust the angle. That should give it just enough clearance for the Taurus fan to slip on
Aside from this snafu, the agenda for today is to finish the mounts up so the hood will close properly. Haven't measured yet, but the oil pan clears the steering rack just fine at the moment (tested it lock to lock yesterday), but the pan's front bubble's rear edge touches the sway bar's front edge. Probably just needs a couple millimeters shaved off the engine mount bushings' holes to nudge it forward enough, then take it straight down as much as possible.
Once again, the $8 diamond bit set and $20 Nikota chinese dremel from Odd Lots shall earn their weight in gold. To add to the irony, the Nikota one gets more use than my official Dremel XPR400 series rotary tool, which seems to be lacking a few pieces such as an extra collet and locking pin for the included flex shaft. One other thing I'd like to mention is that acrylic craft paint has found LOTS of uses in this project. From where to slot holes back to on the engine mounts to marking the hood's underside for clearance, it's a cheap timesaver. It's available at any Jo-Ann Fabrics for about $1 for a 2oz squeeze tube. I recommend one of the darker red shades, roughly the color of a Mitsubishi badge, for good contrast against most any other color. Shows up MUCH better than a sharpie marker.
Now here's a clever how-to for everyone's benefit:
To find out where to cut the hood braces at, dab a little of the craft paint on the UIM in various spots like the throttle body and intake runners, then close the hood to transfer it over. Smeared blobs are where you cut the hood, and show you what hits. Areas most likely to hit are the intake runners (especially the front two), the intake plenum (again, front two runners) the throttle body around the coolant pipe, alternator (if using a larger one), Coolant Filler Neck (radiator cap) and possibly the intake elbow (haven't checked it yet). For areas to be cut, use red while areas to be massaged with a grinder should be in blue.
Driver's side fitting
Passenger side main line to Drier fittings
Passenger side Drier to Condenser fittings
I need these fitting thread pitches to take to the local hydraulic shop and have them make some jumper hoses. It's just a guess, but I think they might be somewhere around the same pitch as the brake hardlines. Once those are made, I'll be mounting the radiator with the stock brackets modified (a slot in each of them) so they'll fit with the top mount holes stock and the bottom holes underneath the capture nuts on the rad support with a few washers to adjust the angle. That should give it just enough clearance for the Taurus fan to slip on
Aside from this snafu, the agenda for today is to finish the mounts up so the hood will close properly. Haven't measured yet, but the oil pan clears the steering rack just fine at the moment (tested it lock to lock yesterday), but the pan's front bubble's rear edge touches the sway bar's front edge. Probably just needs a couple millimeters shaved off the engine mount bushings' holes to nudge it forward enough, then take it straight down as much as possible.
Once again, the $8 diamond bit set and $20 Nikota chinese dremel from Odd Lots shall earn their weight in gold. To add to the irony, the Nikota one gets more use than my official Dremel XPR400 series rotary tool, which seems to be lacking a few pieces such as an extra collet and locking pin for the included flex shaft. One other thing I'd like to mention is that acrylic craft paint has found LOTS of uses in this project. From where to slot holes back to on the engine mounts to marking the hood's underside for clearance, it's a cheap timesaver. It's available at any Jo-Ann Fabrics for about $1 for a 2oz squeeze tube. I recommend one of the darker red shades, roughly the color of a Mitsubishi badge, for good contrast against most any other color. Shows up MUCH better than a sharpie marker.
Now here's a clever how-to for everyone's benefit:
To find out where to cut the hood braces at, dab a little of the craft paint on the UIM in various spots like the throttle body and intake runners, then close the hood to transfer it over. Smeared blobs are where you cut the hood, and show you what hits. Areas most likely to hit are the intake runners (especially the front two), the intake plenum (again, front two runners) the throttle body around the coolant pipe, alternator (if using a larger one), Coolant Filler Neck (radiator cap) and possibly the intake elbow (haven't checked it yet). For areas to be cut, use red while areas to be massaged with a grinder should be in blue.
11-10-10, 05:14 PM
#36
Well, it's time for an update now. A few days ago, we got the hood braces modified to clear the UIM, P/S pump and S4 Filler neck. Today, the A/C condenser is out, along with its fan thanks to a generous dose of PB Blaster on the fittings and bolts. Part of the fan's shroud is bent slightly so it won't spin. Could be an easy fix, but I don't want to deal with it. With the condenser out of the way, I busted out the dremel once again and started hacking away at the radiator brackets for the prototype vertical mount radiator. What I've done is swap them left to right and make a notch in both of the brackets. This gives it enough room so the top bolt can be in the stock location and the bottom one will be on the opposite side of the capture nuts
The condenser will go back in eventually, but with a custom V-mount setup that I've yet to design. With the radiator near-vertical, the horns were moved to either side of the hood latch. It's sure nice that Mazda was so generous with the extra pre-threaded holes on these cars, I'm finding lots of uses for them.
The Taurus fan still needs a teeny bit more room to clear the crank pulley (using S4 ones). Also, I'd like to note that the four long A/C compressor bolts are M8x1.25 thread just like the radiator to rad support bolts and they're coming in very handy to push/pull the radiator where I want it to go.
Okay, enough babble, time for pics
Horns (stock mount is left side, new spot is right side)
Hood, marked with red dots of craft paint for modification
Hood, after modification. Black spot is from hammering to fit around the P/S pump. Still needs a little more though
Almost-vertically mounted S4 Radiator on notched stock S4 radiator brackets. Enough room for thinner E-fans, but the Taurus one needs a little work though. Also something to notice is that the LIM is completely untouched and clears the N/A hood just fine
The condenser will go back in eventually, but with a custom V-mount setup that I've yet to design. With the radiator near-vertical, the horns were moved to either side of the hood latch. It's sure nice that Mazda was so generous with the extra pre-threaded holes on these cars, I'm finding lots of uses for them.
The Taurus fan still needs a teeny bit more room to clear the crank pulley (using S4 ones). Also, I'd like to note that the four long A/C compressor bolts are M8x1.25 thread just like the radiator to rad support bolts and they're coming in very handy to push/pull the radiator where I want it to go.
Okay, enough babble, time for pics
Horns (stock mount is left side, new spot is right side)
Hood, marked with red dots of craft paint for modification
Hood, after modification. Black spot is from hammering to fit around the P/S pump. Still needs a little more though
Almost-vertically mounted S4 Radiator on notched stock S4 radiator brackets. Enough room for thinner E-fans, but the Taurus one needs a little work though. Also something to notice is that the LIM is completely untouched and clears the N/A hood just fine
Last edited by Akagis_white_comet; 08-20-12 at 05:46 PM. Reason: moved pictures
11-19-10, 05:34 PM
#40
Over the past few days, I've been cleaning up and organizing things for the final last push to finish the conversion. This includes tying up all the odds and ends like gauge senders, battery relocation and so on. Bought a battery box at Walmart for $7. For all that want to move their battery, it's their Marine Size 21 one and fits the stock Size 35 battery perfectly, thanks to them having one on hand for a test fit.
Lowes has a remnant of 00-Gauge wire on hand for $1.79 per foot (30 feet of it!!!). The price is definitely nice and it should be beefy enough for the current, but routing that through the interior is gonna give me nightmares. The other options locally available are 2 or 4 gauge welder's cable at Tractor Supply Company for $5 and $4/foot respectively, a 25ft spool of 2-Gauge battery cable for $50, or going with a custom setup. If anyone would like to give a recommendation, I'm ALL ears.
Also noticed something about the 20b that will make everyone sad pandas. The original Oil Pressure Sender had broken off in the rear iron and I can't get it out. Since trying to use a bolt extractor could ruin the rear iron, I came up with a way to transplant the S4 one without having to buy an oil filter block from Racing Beat for $70.
The rear oil cooler line is M18x1.5 just like the FC. My first idea was to convert to AN lines, but that proved to be way too costly to swap over and Tee off for the pressure sender. The next idea was to use a double banjo bolt. Contrary to popular belief, Banjo bolts to accept two banjo fittings do exist in M18x1.5 thread, and Jegs has the banjo fittings with AN6 outputs on them. The double banjo bolts however would have to be ordered from FINLAND (google for it, you'll see). Alas, that was not suitable, cost effective nor time-efficient enough. Putting the original banjo bolt on the desk, I walked away from it till midnight. That's when I had a BRILLIANT revelation...
Tap the Banjo Bolt's head for 1/8" NPT threads
As my friend Cori said when I called him up to tell him about it,"That's so stupid it's brilliant." Anyway, the Oil Pressure Sender on a s4 is apparently 1/8-28 BSPT, but it'll thread into a 1/8" NPT fitting far and snug enough to please me. So off to Lowes for a 1/8" NPT thread tap ($9) and Tap wrench ($9).
That would normally do the trick, but awhile back I decided I was unhappy with how the fluid systems are so closed-off from inspection. So I bought a 1/8" female NPT tee adapter, Male-Male union adapter and male plug. Now the system will has a test port on it, at the same location as the stock sender. And if I decide to add an oil temperature gauge later on, Harbor Freight has female 1/4" NPT four-way fittings for $3!
Pics shall follow of the ingenious device upon completion tonight.
Also, while there, I took in a fitting that threaded perfectly into the Coolant Temperature Sender port on the rear iron. Turns out it's 1/8" NPT too, which is different from the S4's sender (M8x0.75). With those numbers fresh in my head, I started calling around to find a tap. Only Fastenal has them and they're $28 each. For the time being, I'm just gonna use the ECU's sender in the water pump housing and possibly T-splice that to the gauge
If anyone would like custom adapter fittings made, such as the Banjo Bolt to NPT Tee for the oil cooler line, please PM me about it. I can make them for a LOT less than it'd cost for the filter block from Racing Beat.
Lowes has a remnant of 00-Gauge wire on hand for $1.79 per foot (30 feet of it!!!). The price is definitely nice and it should be beefy enough for the current, but routing that through the interior is gonna give me nightmares
. The other options locally available are 2 or 4 gauge welder's cable at Tractor Supply Company for $5 and $4/foot respectively, a 25ft spool of 2-Gauge battery cable for $50, or going with a custom setup. If anyone would like to give a recommendation, I'm ALL ears.Also noticed something about the 20b that will make everyone sad pandas. The original Oil Pressure Sender had broken off in the rear iron and I can't get it out. Since trying to use a bolt extractor could ruin the rear iron, I came up with a way to transplant the S4 one without having to buy an oil filter block from Racing Beat for $70.
The rear oil cooler line is M18x1.5 just like the FC. My first idea was to convert to AN lines, but that proved to be way too costly to swap over and Tee off for the pressure sender. The next idea was to use a double banjo bolt. Contrary to popular belief, Banjo bolts to accept two banjo fittings do exist in M18x1.5 thread, and Jegs has the banjo fittings with AN6 outputs on them. The double banjo bolts however would have to be ordered from FINLAND (google for it, you'll see). Alas, that was not suitable, cost effective nor time-efficient enough. Putting the original banjo bolt on the desk, I walked away from it till midnight. That's when I had a BRILLIANT revelation...
Tap the Banjo Bolt's head for 1/8" NPT threads
As my friend Cori said when I called him up to tell him about it,"That's so stupid it's brilliant." Anyway, the Oil Pressure Sender on a s4 is apparently 1/8-28 BSPT, but it'll thread into a 1/8" NPT fitting far and snug enough to please me. So off to Lowes for a 1/8" NPT thread tap ($9) and Tap wrench ($9).
That would normally do the trick, but awhile back I decided I was unhappy with how the fluid systems are so closed-off from inspection. So I bought a 1/8" female NPT tee adapter, Male-Male union adapter and male plug. Now the system will has a test port on it, at the same location as the stock sender. And if I decide to add an oil temperature gauge later on, Harbor Freight has female 1/4" NPT four-way fittings for $3!
Pics shall follow of the ingenious device upon completion tonight.
Also, while there, I took in a fitting that threaded perfectly into the Coolant Temperature Sender port on the rear iron. Turns out it's 1/8" NPT too, which is different from the S4's sender (M8x0.75). With those numbers fresh in my head, I started calling around to find a tap. Only Fastenal has them and they're $28 each. For the time being, I'm just gonna use the ECU's sender in the water pump housing and possibly T-splice that to the gauge
If anyone would like custom adapter fittings made, such as the Banjo Bolt to NPT Tee for the oil cooler line, please PM me about it. I can make them for a LOT less than it'd cost for the filter block from Racing Beat.
11-19-10, 08:18 PM
#41
For the pressure sender, couldn't you just connect to the oil supply line for the turbos somehow? Wouldn't that be easier?
What about tapping the oil filter pedestal?
11-20-10, 12:40 AM
#42
Been reading up on it recently and heard that some people have issues routing 2-gauge welding cable through the firewall and keeping it tidy. 00-gauge is four sizes larger, and most likely that much more difficult to route.
Connecting the pressure sender to the turbos would work too, but the oil line would need modified to fit, as well as figuring out what pitch the fittings are and adapting them ad needed. The downside to it would be that it'd have a different reading on the stock S4 Gauge compared to the original location due to regional differences in oil pressure. Some areas are under higher pressure, while areas like the dump pipes would see less pressure since it's at the end of the circuit. I'd wager that the engineers for Mazda picked the original location to give a nice median reading for the whole system. The part I made is about an inch away from there, so any difference in oil pressure readings should be negligible.
Plus, placing an electrical part so critical to engine survival on the the biggest heatsink under the hood doesn't sound like a great idea. A plus to having it on the oil cooler's send line is that if an oil temperature gauge comes along later, it'll read at the hottest part. And since it's on a M18x1.5 banjo bolt, I could put another adapter fitting in on the oil cooler's return line for post-oil cooler temperatures.
Plus, a banjo bolt is a common part, cheap to replace and readily available from lots of places. Finding another JC Cosmo oil filter tower in case something goes wrong might take awhile, and is bound to cost quite a bit. Compared to getting the oil filter tower block from Racing Beat or Mazdatrix, I'm already $50 ahead for the same result.
Connecting the pressure sender to the turbos would work too, but the oil line would need modified to fit, as well as figuring out what pitch the fittings are and adapting them ad needed. The downside to it would be that it'd have a different reading on the stock S4 Gauge compared to the original location due to regional differences in oil pressure. Some areas are under higher pressure, while areas like the dump pipes would see less pressure since it's at the end of the circuit. I'd wager that the engineers for Mazda picked the original location to give a nice median reading for the whole system. The part I made is about an inch away from there, so any difference in oil pressure readings should be negligible.
Plus, placing an electrical part so critical to engine survival on the the biggest heatsink under the hood doesn't sound like a great idea. A plus to having it on the oil cooler's send line is that if an oil temperature gauge comes along later, it'll read at the hottest part. And since it's on a M18x1.5 banjo bolt, I could put another adapter fitting in on the oil cooler's return line for post-oil cooler temperatures.
Plus, a banjo bolt is a common part, cheap to replace and readily available from lots of places. Finding another JC Cosmo oil filter tower in case something goes wrong might take awhile, and is bound to cost quite a bit. Compared to getting the oil filter tower block from Racing Beat or Mazdatrix, I'm already $50 ahead for the same result.
11-30-10, 02:09 PM
#43
your brilliant idea is very old by the way.
ive tapped a few banjo bolts for oil temp sending units and was not the first to think of it either. nothing new. its cool that you think outside of the box though.
in the mean time, enjoy some 1uzfe swapped fc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbDPfWWz8ew
ive tapped a few banjo bolts for oil temp sending units and was not the first to think of it either. nothing new. its cool that you think outside of the box though.
in the mean time, enjoy some 1uzfe swapped fc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbDPfWWz8ew
12-02-10, 03:18 PM
#46
UPDATE:
I'm currently in talks with Seibon to get a Carbon Fiber N/A hood made. As you may know, Seibon makes some great stuff for the FD, but the FC gets no love other than the TII hoods on ebay and the occasional center vent ones from RE-Amemiya and other japanese manufacturers.
Now here comes the downside: we need 100 of them made. I'll see if we can get the initial number reduced since the FC is the biggest group. Also, I've offered to donate my hood to the project to make tooling easier, and would mean that the CF ones would already fit a 20B-REW with no mods too. For my specific application, I'm asking that a passenger side teardrop-like vent (with raintray!) be added to it, sorta like the R34 GT-R. Depending on how they want to work the deal, adding vents to the initial order could be done on a case-by-case basis (for individual customization), or be done to the whole lot (cheaper for them in tooling). Once I hear back from them, we'll see how they want to do this. But in the meantime, if you are interested in one of them, please let me know.
On an unrelated note, I'd like to ask a small favor from everyone with a relocated battery: How exactly did you get the main positive cable through the firewall's drivers side grommet, from the inside or from the outside? Pics on both sides of the firewall would be greatly appreciated too.
I can't seem to find where it is from the inside and am tempted to run it on the passenger side with the haltech's wiring.
I'm currently in talks with Seibon to get a Carbon Fiber N/A hood made. As you may know, Seibon makes some great stuff for the FD, but the FC gets no love other than the TII hoods on ebay and the occasional center vent ones from RE-Amemiya and other japanese manufacturers.
Now here comes the downside: we need 100 of them made. I'll see if we can get the initial number reduced since the FC is the biggest group. Also, I've offered to donate my hood to the project to make tooling easier, and would mean that the CF ones would already fit a 20B-REW with no mods too. For my specific application, I'm asking that a passenger side teardrop-like vent (with raintray!) be added to it, sorta like the R34 GT-R. Depending on how they want to work the deal, adding vents to the initial order could be done on a case-by-case basis (for individual customization), or be done to the whole lot (cheaper for them in tooling). Once I hear back from them, we'll see how they want to do this. But in the meantime, if you are interested in one of them, please let me know.
On an unrelated note, I'd like to ask a small favor from everyone with a relocated battery: How exactly did you get the main positive cable through the firewall's drivers side grommet, from the inside or from the outside? Pics on both sides of the firewall would be greatly appreciated too.
I can't seem to find where it is from the inside and am tempted to run it on the passenger side with the haltech's wiring.
12-03-10, 08:12 PM
#48
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,832
Received 2,603 Likes
on
1,847 Posts
UPDATE:
On an unrelated note, I'd like to ask a small favor from everyone with a relocated battery: How exactly did you get the main positive cable through the firewall's drivers side grommet, from the inside or from the outside? Pics on both sides of the firewall would be greatly appreciated too.
I can't seem to find where it is from the inside and am tempted to run it on the passenger side with the haltech's wiring.
On an unrelated note, I'd like to ask a small favor from everyone with a relocated battery: How exactly did you get the main positive cable through the firewall's drivers side grommet, from the inside or from the outside? Pics on both sides of the firewall would be greatly appreciated too.
I can't seem to find where it is from the inside and am tempted to run it on the passenger side with the haltech's wiring.
if you want one that clears the PS AND AC then you might need to make one that comes straight out
when i did the battery relocation, i put the battery in the storage bin, and then it went thru a grommet in the floor, and it was run under the car next to the fuel lines and then to the starter. we looked at a bunch of cars and this is basically how the MGB, miata and E30 are done....
i like the stock radiator move, but i HIGHLY doubt the stock radiator will work, back in the day we all ran the K2RD radiator, which is based on an AFCO double pass unit, and even that one is marginal.
the stock turbos fit nicely, but they also suck, if i had to do it again i'd gladly take the 12hp (we dynoed a STOCK 20B and an NA one) penalty and run NA. call will be about 100lbs lighter too, and the HEAT the twins generate makes a stock FD look like an ice cube...
oh also you need to find a turbo hood, the 3 rotor intake fits in the scoop like its made for it
cool build though! can't go wrong with a white S4 with a 3 rotor, i did it, paul ko did it, bcool did it... its just the right thing to do
12-05-10, 06:53 AM
#49
Thank you to everyone that has offered suggestions, praise and constructive criticism. After mulling over the battery cable for long enough, I grabbed a pair of kitchen scissors and pushed the closed blades through the driver's side grommet. They poked a hole just big enough to slip the 3-gauge main battery cable through. Some of you are probably thinking "3-gauge???". Yes, I can assure you that it does exist. What I'm specifically using is THHN building cable, found on sale at Menards for $1 per foot.
Thanks to a quick check using the Electrical Wiring app for Android, it's more than enough to handle the maximum the Taurus alt can dish out. Using 15 feet for the main cable, 3-gauge tops out at 158 amps. For the same run, 4-gauge maxes out at 135. And on an interesting note, 4-gauge battery cable and welding cable was actually more expensive, and me being the frugalist I am, didn't want to pay the $4/foot for it.
Also, the app can calculate things like Voltage Drop (with temperature correction!), do voltage/resistance/amperage conversions and all sorts of useful math that comes in handy with any electrical project. Best of all, it's FREE!
According to national american building codes, THHN cable is required to be entirely soft-annealed copper and the insulation has to be oil, gas and abrasion-resistant as well as self-lubricating to make it easy to run through walls. So according to Aaron Cake's electrical working rules, there's no need to solder it since the lugs and strands will pressure-weld themselves together when crimped properly. Add in a radio shack project box, a M10 nut and bolt, some heavy duty adhesive and a couple repurposed stock brackets and you've got the perfect underhood distribution/jumpstart point. That idea came from looking at my mom's Chrysler Concorde and how the battery is buried in the fender so deep that you can't give it a jump without a dedicated jump point.
If I'm feeling ambitious this winter, the box's lid might get some dremel router attention to give it an OE-looking engraved label.
So in recap:
Battery box: $7
3-Gauge cable (20 feet): $20
Pure Copper Terminal lugs: $5 for 4
Radio Shack Project box (part#270-1803): Recycled from another project.
Scosche Distribution Block for dual amps with BIG fuses: $9
Extra 60/80/100/120 amp maxi fuses: free from the junkyard in any big american car like the Taurus or Crown Vic
Total Battery relocation cost: $40
Benefits of inside and underhood fused distribution blocks: priceless
The look on everyone's face when you did it for half of what they spent: best captured by legendary animation director Tex Avery
Thanks to a quick check using the Electrical Wiring app for Android, it's more than enough to handle the maximum the Taurus alt can dish out. Using 15 feet for the main cable, 3-gauge tops out at 158 amps. For the same run, 4-gauge maxes out at 135. And on an interesting note, 4-gauge battery cable and welding cable was actually more expensive, and me being the frugalist I am, didn't want to pay the $4/foot for it.
Also, the app can calculate things like Voltage Drop (with temperature correction!), do voltage/resistance/amperage conversions and all sorts of useful math that comes in handy with any electrical project. Best of all, it's FREE!
According to national american building codes, THHN cable is required to be entirely soft-annealed copper and the insulation has to be oil, gas and abrasion-resistant as well as self-lubricating to make it easy to run through walls. So according to Aaron Cake's electrical working rules, there's no need to solder it since the lugs and strands will pressure-weld themselves together when crimped properly. Add in a radio shack project box, a M10 nut and bolt, some heavy duty adhesive and a couple repurposed stock brackets and you've got the perfect underhood distribution/jumpstart point. That idea came from looking at my mom's Chrysler Concorde and how the battery is buried in the fender so deep that you can't give it a jump without a dedicated jump point.
If I'm feeling ambitious this winter, the box's lid might get some dremel router attention to give it an OE-looking engraved label.
So in recap:
Battery box: $7
3-Gauge cable (20 feet): $20
Pure Copper Terminal lugs: $5 for 4
Radio Shack Project box (part#270-1803): Recycled from another project.
Scosche Distribution Block for dual amps with BIG fuses: $9
Extra 60/80/100/120 amp maxi fuses: free from the junkyard in any big american car like the Taurus or Crown Vic
Total Battery relocation cost: $40
Benefits of inside and underhood fused distribution blocks: priceless
The look on everyone's face when you did it for half of what they spent: best captured by legendary animation director Tex Avery
12-05-10, 08:48 AM
#50
dude... the main 12v wire goes straight to the starter. dont loop it around to the damn engine bay and back to the starter. only two wires go to the battery, and thats for the fuse box and for the alternator 12v charging.one is an 12 gauge and one is a 8 gauge?
the 12v from the battery goes to the starter, and the negative lead goes there as well, but also goes to the engine bay. thats the only one i would run to the engine bay.
the 12v from the battery goes to the starter, and the negative lead goes there as well, but also goes to the engine bay. thats the only one i would run to the engine bay.