John Huijben

iTrader: (1)

Fair points, I've mocked it up and checked it out but my slide throttle body is sortoff in the way. I could move the alternator further outside the engine or to a more higher location but both have drawbacks. The mounting points of the alternator I've got just don't work very well in those area's, and I sortoff want to have a clean spot there so I can reach my intake and exhaust easily.


This is probably a one time thing, I am toying with the idea of making a batch of slide throttlebody's and intake manifolds for 2 and 3 rotor PP's though. Combined with a standalone ecu it should offer great benefits to the old carburettor setups. But that's just an idea for now, I want to see if the one I'm building right now works first.


Update

Started on the alternator bracket. Mocked some stuff up a few days ago, found a spot that might work and a piece of 6060 alloy and started machining it today.

2,5 pounds of aluminium


Machining the bottom side here, looks goofy right now but it makes sense when bolted to the engine


Finished machining the bracket, total machining time was about 2,5 hours. Quickly mounted it to see how everything fits. Still needs some teflon pivoting inserts, and a tensioner.
The tensioner will be made from 2 rod end bearings and a piece of rod, and will go between the stock alternator mounting point on the waterpump and that point on the current alternator


Outside part of the bracket, I'm a little bummed about the thin wall thickness in the stiffening rib in the upper left corner. I should really model these things out on the computer before machining. It's still more than strong enough though, the bottom of the bracket is about 5mm's thick, so the bracket will hold even without the ribs


Had to remove a piece from the front iron to make the alternator fit nice and snug. I didn't remove the entire mounting point though, those boltholes might come in handy some day

jules_223

This is the coolest thing i've ever seen.

ssonsk

That's why I asked.
Just seeing if there was going to be another 4rotor kit on the market. I can't afford something like this for a loooong time, but it's still interesting to find new things in the rotary market!



and if you don't mind me asking: since you're making everything your self has this been a lot cheaper than just buying a kit?

felix_is_alive

i gotta get this guy to make me something , anything .....skills are crazy !!!

Mr N4SA

Hi,

Wow! you are really good and not scared to share info at all.

I really like the quality workmanship.
Keep up the good work, and I am very eager to see/hear the end result.

The Netherlands is about to change.........

Regards
Adin

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

No need to hide info, as I'm sure that no one else on the forums has these skills.

Thanks for documenting this build. EPIC.

Furb

iTrader: (2)

It always is... IF you don't count the hours that is

I think 1/2 - 3/4 of the price of all existing kits is to earn back the R&D, because time is money...

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

there's plenty of builders on here but we're beyond the point of trying to keep everything secretive. the only things that are kept under wraps are some specifics on builds for some of the top performing cars.

inevitably we all have something to learn from one another to progress even faster.

i doubt John even really thinks this is revolutionary work, it is just his daily routine machining processes. just this time based around a rotary engine to double the size of the engine. the eccentric shaft being the key component and i doubt he even wants to tally up how many hours that has taken so far, heh. this and tegheim's have just been the only most well documented for the steps involved and the trials and errors along the way.

i'm sure i will also go over my build once i find the time to do anything with it for the more cost effective approach of modifying 2 stock shafts, granted it will not be able to handle as much power.

John Huijben

iTrader: (1)

Yes of course it is. I'm keeping the exact total to myself but it should be about the same as most single turbo conversions when done. It does take a lot of time however. I'm currently 4 months into the build, and the engine still isn't done.


Well there aren't a lot of secrets here. This engine isn't very innovative or anything, it's all tried and tested 20 years ago. Most of the info needed to make something like this can be found on the forums or in SAE papers. It's just that not a lot of hobbyists are stupid enough to attempt do make something like this by themselves

Your not entirely right about my daily routine machining processes though I'm not a machinist for a living. I design automation systems behind a desk and help out in the workshop when needed. Most machined parts are outsourced these days, but we have a few manual machines at the shop so we can make some modifications if needed, or for when we quickly need a spacer or something. Imagine the puzzled look of my co-workers when I showed them the e-shaft I made on our own machines


Update

Added some delrin bushings to mount the alternator



Also made a tensioner for it. One side of that rod has a normal thread, the other side uses a left hand thread. The middle of the rod has 2 flat parts where a 10mm socket fits onto. Turn the rod and the belt gets tensioned. It can then be locked by that nut. Didn't have a locking nut for the other end of the rod lying around, I'll get one tomorrow. All made from 304 stainless steel.


Front view


Got my tension bolts zinc plated so they won't rust.


And picked up a nice small VR-sensor. I'm planning to machine a custom front pully that also acts as a triggerwheel. I just got a generic GM sensor that's small and easy to get. I'm going to use a normal V-belt by the way with custom machined aluminium pully's. Should be a clean and lightweight setup when done.

Erix7rew

iTrader: (7)

I think that you have to change the 2 straight water connector that you installed for 2 45 degree to clear the alternator but you probably already notice that Great job!!

RexRyder

iTrader: (10)

What are you going to do about the added stress to the front iron in that area?

John Huijben

iTrader: (1)

It's difficult to see in the pictures, but they just clear. Not a lot of room left though

What specific area are you talking about? The alternator mount?


Update

Made the fuel rail today. It's a simple piece that consists out of a piece of pipe, some injector bungs and a few mounting brackets. Not as simple to make though, I made it from pretty thinwalled stainless steel, which loves to bend when it gets welded, and since the injector bungs have to be welded all the way around to not leak quite a bit of welding is necessary. Got it pretty good though, fits like a charm. I heard stories about fuel leaking between the injector bungs and the injectors with some aftermarket rails, so I made those holes a few thousands smaller. The bungs in the rotor housings were done the same. The injectors fit snugly but you can still rotate them without a lot of effort when everything is mounted.

Some parts, bungs were machined on the lathe, the holes in the rail were actually machined on the mill. Plain drilling leaves nasty edges on the inside of the rail, this doesn't happen when using a good endmill


Tacked the bungs to the rail, time for test fitting on the mocked up engine


Everything fitted well, so I welded everything together and added some mounting brackets. The brackets need to be pretty strong, when fuel pressure is 70 psi there's about 65 pounds of force trying to lift the fuel rail. I still need to weld fittings to it, but I don't know which ones I'm going to use yet






Fits well, those are ID1000 injectors



Also started on measuring out the oilpan


Need to mockup a subframe with the engine before I can finish the model and start making it but I can't get to my spare parts because there's 5 inches of snow outside .
Also got my OS giken twin plate clutch, looks like it will work I'll make some pictures soon

nvmarx

iTrader: (1)

i love your updates, what gearbox are you going to use? i dont remember if you said any thing on the matter?
are you going to go all out on the engineering on the fc as well? like a roll cage, chassie strenghting and suspension? things along those lines?

R-X-R

iTrader: (9)

this is like rotory heaven stuff.,.,

bigdv519

iTrader: (3)

I really like that tensioner for the alternator. Looks really nice and easy to adjust.

Keep it up. This thread is full of awesome.

damic

We wants some updates ;D

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

the front iron would see less stress with the alternator mounted like that, it was actually more stress on the front iron with it mounted in the stock location.

i'm curious about your sump system with the stock pump. i figured i would run a sump tank to gravity feed to the pickup and to eliminate aeration of the oil with an auxiliary pump to push the oil to the tank from the returns. i remember you picked up a mechanical pump and i suppose that is it's purpose? or is the internal pump to pump it to the surge tank then the auxiliary pump takes over from there?

GMO-RX7

iTrader: (21)

I don't believe I have subscribed to this thread yet because I haven't had to with how hard you have been working on this project there have been plenty of updates. You really seem to be making good use of you're talent. Looking forward to whats to come. Subscribed.

kelldog44

Loving the build man, keep up the good work. Glad to see that motor progressing slowly but surely.

RexRyder

iTrader: (10)

Nevermind, didn't see the picture with the tensioner, just saw the alt resting on the front iron.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i would also probably make another brace from the base of the rail mounts to the top of the rail, the mounts usually are pretty flimsy so it will move around some and why some rails tend to leak. this is usually a boosted motor issue or with cars running much higher than the typical 40psi of rail pressure. on those cars i have to shim the injectors so tight that they can't move, i've seen plenty of injectors leak even below 20psi of boost running 60psi line fuel pressure because the injectors tend to bob up and down.

bigdv519

iTrader: (3)

Are you talking about another brace to create a triangle? Sounds like a good idea to me.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

basically.

it doesn't look finished yet so i could have jumped the gun on it anyways.

John Huijben

iTrader: (1)

Yes, a dry sump or something like that would be best. It also complicates things though, and requires a lot more fabrication work, which is why I'm going with a normal stock style setup for now. So a normal sump with a normal pickup that feeds into the modified oil pump. The oilpan would need significant baffling because of the length of the 4-rotor (more room for the oil to slosh around in, not good when the oil pickup is all the way in the front of the engine). I'm thinking about a sturdy thick flanged oilpan that adds structural integrity to the engine with baffling plates and one way flapping doors.


Your totally right, I was thinking the same thing myself. The way it is now isn't that weak, there are 3x 2" wide brackets made out of 1/8" stainless steel. I did some calculations and they should hold up without budging a lot. I can lift the engine holding that fuel rail. But I really really wouldn't want a fuel leak right above a really hot exhaust with this engine, so I'm going to make some reinforcements for peace of mind.



Update

I needed a triggerwheel for this engine, you can buy them pretty cheap, but I couldn't find one with the dimensions I wanted. Someone smart would've get one waterjetted and be done with it. But the machines were empty and I had some material lying around so I figured why not give it a shot myself.

Drilling, this really wasn't fun at all


And all machined up


Still need to deburr and paint it but I think it will work. It fits onto the pully hub together with the front pully. Already ordered material for the pully's by the way, aircraft grade aluminium

damic

Mmmh is it just me or is the middle plate an other plate. The intake is higher then the rest.

@ts: why you don't change the front so you can run drysump, can be that hard if you make your own two piece excentric axle.
Oeeeh nice trigger wheel, but I miss something, jup the space out (or how you call it) for the TDC of rotor 1