3-rotor 20B FC Drift Build
01-18-12, 05:12 PM
#53
rottary89
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No, I bought mine from Retro-spec Team @ c7carbon.com. Really nice quality and fitment. I recommend it, and you can use it with your stock sunroof... direct bolt-in. Of course I chose to removed it for weight reduction and increase room for cage.
01-18-12, 05:17 PM
#54
rottary89
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Time to upgrade my Walbro 255, instead of doing a dual in-tank setup... I decided to just get one badass pump instead and not complicate things. Its good for at least 600hp at the flywheel, which is more then I ever intend to get out of my 20B since I'm drifting and I intend to do a low-mid range setup (never break 500rwhp).
01-18-12, 07:28 PM
#56
It actually outflows the denso in the range 2rotorspeed will likely use (you will be heading past 500hp on a 20b with much over 10psi on any real turbo), and when it begins to lag behind the denso, its not by much. Also its TONS easier to plumb. I'll be picking up one myself when I upgrade my turbo past what the FD pump will support.
It does draw more amps than the Bosch, so make sure you've got the wiring nice and tidy, but it draws less than the venerable Supra pump.
Full article can be found here
It does draw more amps than the Bosch, so make sure you've got the wiring nice and tidy, but it draws less than the venerable Supra pump.
Full article can be found here
01-19-12, 10:06 AM
#57
rottary89
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Speak of a turbo, I know this is going to be a little controversial since most people looking at my thread and seeing a 20b will expect 600+rwhp, but I can assure you I do not intend to crack more than 450rwhp.
The turbo I decided to get will be a Garrett T04S with a T4 undivided .96 a/r turbine housing + 60mm wastegate.
Yes, this turbo is a GT35R equivalent (worse in some cases), and yes it is a small turbo for a 3 rotor.
Here are the reasons behind my decision, so please read everything carefully before you tell me I'm getting the wrong turbo or that it won't work.
A. Reason why I did not get a ball bearing turbo
- Spool won't be a concern (plenty of exhaust flow for this turbo... stock engine, stock ports)
- More expensive
- Journal bearing is rebuildable
- I didn't want to also have water cooling and further add heat to the radiator which will already be working overtime in drifting with a FMIC (no, I am not going V-mount this year)
B. Reason why a GT35R equivalent was picked
- Recommendation from Defined Autoworks for my application
- I am aiming to create a powerband worthy of comparing it with an ever-so-popular LS1 swap in FCs for drifting
- Torque targets of 200 by 2000rpm and 400 by 3500rpm is the goal
- Expected full boost by 2000-2500 rpm, and peak toque by 3500rpm
- Extensive dyno graph research of 13Bs with GT35Rs lead me to the conclusion that peak torque is achieved on average from 4000rpm to 4500rpm (full boost as early as 2500rpm)
C. Why didn't I just use the stock twins? They produce torque at even lower rpms then this setup and can produce just as much power. Because...
- I blew one of the turbos in August last year
- I don't intend to control multiple solenoids just to get that twin system to work properly
- Less weight with single turbo
- Smoother power band (no hp spike)
- Turbo NOT 1" from the manifold increasing air intake temperatures and heatsoaks
- Better looking engine bay
- No coolant/water used to cool the super hot turbos, making it more difficult to keep water temps down
... and these are the reasons why I believe a T04S turbo would be the best fit for my 20B.
The turbo I decided to get will be a Garrett T04S with a T4 undivided .96 a/r turbine housing + 60mm wastegate.
Yes, this turbo is a GT35R equivalent (worse in some cases), and yes it is a small turbo for a 3 rotor.
Here are the reasons behind my decision, so please read everything carefully before you tell me I'm getting the wrong turbo or that it won't work.
A. Reason why I did not get a ball bearing turbo
- Spool won't be a concern (plenty of exhaust flow for this turbo... stock engine, stock ports)
- More expensive
- Journal bearing is rebuildable
- I didn't want to also have water cooling and further add heat to the radiator which will already be working overtime in drifting with a FMIC (no, I am not going V-mount this year)
B. Reason why a GT35R equivalent was picked
- Recommendation from Defined Autoworks for my application
- I am aiming to create a powerband worthy of comparing it with an ever-so-popular LS1 swap in FCs for drifting
- Torque targets of 200 by 2000rpm and 400 by 3500rpm is the goal
- Expected full boost by 2000-2500 rpm, and peak toque by 3500rpm
- Extensive dyno graph research of 13Bs with GT35Rs lead me to the conclusion that peak torque is achieved on average from 4000rpm to 4500rpm (full boost as early as 2500rpm)
C. Why didn't I just use the stock twins? They produce torque at even lower rpms then this setup and can produce just as much power. Because...
- I blew one of the turbos in August last year
- I don't intend to control multiple solenoids just to get that twin system to work properly
- Less weight with single turbo
- Smoother power band (no hp spike)
- Turbo NOT 1" from the manifold increasing air intake temperatures and heatsoaks
- Better looking engine bay
- No coolant/water used to cool the super hot turbos, making it more difficult to keep water temps down
... and these are the reasons why I believe a T04S turbo would be the best fit for my 20B.
01-19-12, 10:55 AM
#58
Obviously you've done a little bit of research on this topic, lol.
Seems like you could keep the low end (spool characteristics) without sacrificing top end if you went w/ a divided manifold on a larger turbo like a GT37-GT40 or larger T04 series since you are concenred about the rebuild cost aspect.
What are you doing for the exahust? 3.5" or 4" downpipe would greatly help spool on a larger unit, even if it snakes down to a 3" catback although a full 3.5" would be ideal.
Seems like you could keep the low end (spool characteristics) without sacrificing top end if you went w/ a divided manifold on a larger turbo like a GT37-GT40 or larger T04 series since you are concenred about the rebuild cost aspect.
What are you doing for the exahust? 3.5" or 4" downpipe would greatly help spool on a larger unit, even if it snakes down to a 3" catback although a full 3.5" would be ideal.
01-19-12, 11:11 AM
#59
I think you'll be happy with the Powerband this turbo will produce....especially with response at the power level you're trying to attain. Should be no problem. Although... with that turbo.. I would suggest just a little larger Hot-side... something like a/r .95 or a a/r 1.06 just to keep a progressive power band. With the .84 you might flatten out early. with a larger hot-side i'm pretty positive you'll keep your response but have a much broader power band to redline. Just my opinion though. Nice build!!! Keep it up!!
(also running .96 to4s on stock ports and baller status)
01-19-12, 06:02 PM
#61
rottary89
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Haha thanks, I originally found the idea of getting a T04S after reading your thread I believe in 20B forum. And yes, I would have gotten a 1.15 a/r if a divided manifold would have been possible. .96 a/r was the highest unless going ball bearing, and with a big enough wastegate there should be no problem.
01-19-12, 07:43 PM
#62
rottary89
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Obviously you've done a little bit of research on this topic, lol.
Seems like you could keep the low end (spool characteristics) without sacrificing top end if you went w/ a divided manifold on a larger turbo like a GT37-GT40 or larger T04 series since you are concenred about the rebuild cost aspect.
What are you doing for the exahust? 3.5" or 4" downpipe would greatly help spool on a larger unit, even if it snakes down to a 3" catback although a full 3.5" would be ideal.
Seems like you could keep the low end (spool characteristics) without sacrificing top end if you went w/ a divided manifold on a larger turbo like a GT37-GT40 or larger T04 series since you are concenred about the rebuild cost aspect.
What are you doing for the exahust? 3.5" or 4" downpipe would greatly help spool on a larger unit, even if it snakes down to a 3" catback although a full 3.5" would be ideal.
would be some poetry nifty **** if it were possible though.
01-21-12, 04:15 PM
#64
rottary89
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I got some work done on the FC today...
I already had a Walbro 255 and I am upgrading for the Aeromotive 340 pump so I won't have to do a twin pump setup.
I decided to change my wiring as well that I did 5 years ago... I have a straight positive wire from main fuse box with a 30A fuse, and then into an aftermarket relay which is controlled by the stand-alone. From there I had the ground and positive wire running directly into the pump and NOT through a plug.
What bothered me was how the wires that ran into the tank would solder into the wires that came with the pump plug. I just didn't like that at all... not sure why, so I de-pinned the pump plug, removed the wires from the ends, and ran new wires from the relay and chassis ground directly into the tank and into the plug of the pump. I soldered slightly the crimped wires at the ends just to make sure they will NEVER come out and have a really good connection.
The two wires you see coming out of the plug of the pump are the ones I added, and they go uninterrupted to the chassis ground and positive of the pump relay.
I also re-sealed the hole I made where the two wires come out of the tank so fumes don't get out. Tomorrow I will install the pump and attempt to start the car and make sure everything is how it should be (check for leaks and re-adjust fuel pressure).
I already had a Walbro 255 and I am upgrading for the Aeromotive 340 pump so I won't have to do a twin pump setup.
I decided to change my wiring as well that I did 5 years ago... I have a straight positive wire from main fuse box with a 30A fuse, and then into an aftermarket relay which is controlled by the stand-alone. From there I had the ground and positive wire running directly into the pump and NOT through a plug.
What bothered me was how the wires that ran into the tank would solder into the wires that came with the pump plug. I just didn't like that at all... not sure why, so I de-pinned the pump plug, removed the wires from the ends, and ran new wires from the relay and chassis ground directly into the tank and into the plug of the pump. I soldered slightly the crimped wires at the ends just to make sure they will NEVER come out and have a really good connection.
The two wires you see coming out of the plug of the pump are the ones I added, and they go uninterrupted to the chassis ground and positive of the pump relay.
I also re-sealed the hole I made where the two wires come out of the tank so fumes don't get out. Tomorrow I will install the pump and attempt to start the car and make sure everything is how it should be (check for leaks and re-adjust fuel pressure).
01-22-12, 01:33 PM
#65
rottary89
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Here is a short clip of my FC from this morning... remember I don't have a turbo or exhaust manifold on... yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9zLgZNOqFY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9zLgZNOqFY
02-05-12, 12:49 PM
#70
rottary89
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I finally got to setup my own blog and posted a more detailed 20B swap which I did last year. 
http://www.killer20b.com/wordpress/
http://www.killer20b.com/wordpress/
02-06-12, 06:17 PM
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love this thread!!!!!! I just picked up a 91 n/a shell for cheap. rough around the edges but for the price of 350 bucks with clean black interior and all i couldn't say no. i also plan on going 20b with no rush for the build. I'm not a drifter although i highly respect the skill. I'm more of the back road gripper kinda guy. but i also don't want to pass 500hp. i think that's fine beating up on these mustangs. great start you have hear and hope to see more in the future.. best of luck!!
02-06-12, 07:21 PM
#73
oh im starting to get results in for the t-76.
with the p trim and .96ar hot side, im seeing 4psi with no load at 5k rpm. i think that i will be able to get the full 8psi pretty fast with a load on the engine. if you havent ordered the turbo yet, you may want to consider the 1.14 hot side.
with the p trim and .96ar hot side, im seeing 4psi with no load at 5k rpm. i think that i will be able to get the full 8psi pretty fast with a load on the engine. if you havent ordered the turbo yet, you may want to consider the 1.14 hot side.
02-07-12, 10:35 AM
#74
rottary89
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oh im starting to get results in for the t-76.
with the p trim and .96ar hot side, im seeing 4psi with no load at 5k rpm. i think that i will be able to get the full 8psi pretty fast with a load on the engine. if you havent ordered the turbo yet, you may want to consider the 1.14 hot side.
with the p trim and .96ar hot side, im seeing 4psi with no load at 5k rpm. i think that i will be able to get the full 8psi pretty fast with a load on the engine. if you havent ordered the turbo yet, you may want to consider the 1.14 hot side.
As for me, I already ordered the turbo haha... so it's too late. But I ended up doing the T04S with 61mm/82mm wheel (GT35R equiv.), P trim with .96 a/r undivided. I would have went with a 1.14, but .96 was the highest I could go there. I talked to Defined Auto and they said I should be good as long as I use a 60mm wastegate.
02-07-12, 10:41 AM
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No i wanted to but the guy didnt wanna degotiate very well so i stepped away and someone sent me an offer. That black gxl is really nice though minus the auto part. Someone should pick it up.